POST GAME Round 17 - Broncos vs Warriors

[Porthoz]

Lol, I've criticised Boyd heaps but he was easily one our best last night. His defence was actually outstanding, that Fafita try came off the back of Boyd having an awesome kickchase and then backing it up with an excellent 1 on 1 tackle from marker. Warriors went nowhere that set. He was playing like a leader should.

I'm not going to criticise players for poor execution in a 90 minute slog fest.

Oh, and absolutely I'd be critical of Macca. The two are not comparable.

One is a legitimate great player in the game, multiple premiership winner, rep player the majority of his career, Clive Churchill winner. One is a dud who has achieved nothing and should have been out of first grade about 8 years ago. There's a reason I'm more lenient with Boyd. Great players get a lot more rope.

Macca has never built up any good will because he's been borderline average, closer to useless his entire career. You'll also notice I'm a huge fan of Alex Glenn.

In fact go through my posting history. There's very few players I actually bag out with any kind of agenda.

I absolutely hated Hoffman, I can't stand Macca as a player. Besides those two I can't think of any players I've consistently bagged out. I love Milford but I do criticise him from time to time simply because he's our highest paid player and I expect players who take the coin to live up to it. He's far better than your mate Ash Taylor though.

Yeah, because we wouldn't have been far better off with Taylor (who has struggled big time and regressed at that basket case of a club) than with your Clive Churchill medal mate.
I guess we'll never really know, but I have zero doubt about the difference between a 1- Boyd, 6- Milf, 7- Hunt, or a 1- Milf, 6- Hunt, 7-Taylor.

Like you, I've never been much of bagging players. I definitely think Boyd is hugely overrated as Fullback, although I think he was a fantastic Winger and could be a great Centre still.
I also never liked Ben Hunt or KNik as Halfbacks and made that pretty clear. I do think they are both excellent running 5/8s or utilities.

As to Macca, he's exactly like Boyd... honest plodders in the position they respectively play in the NRL. Both had a couple of good seasons amongst most of their average career.

Boyd does have a commendable rep career though... as a Winger.

 

[Kimlo]

Yeah, because we wouldn't have been far better off with Taylor (who has struggled big time and regressed at that basket case of a club) than with your Clive Churchill medal mate.
I guess we'll never really know, but I have zero doubt about the difference between a 1- Boyd, 6- Milf, 7- Hunt, or a 1- Milf, 6- Hunt, 7-Taylor.

Like you, I've never been much of bagging players. I definitely think Boyd is hugely overrated as Fullback, although I think he was a fantastic Winger and could be a great Centre still.
I also never liked Ben Hunt or KNik as Halfbacks and made that pretty clear. I do think they are both excellent running 5/8s or utilities.

As to Macca, he's exactly like Boyd... honest plodders in the position they respectively play in the NRL. Both had a couple of good seasons amongst most of their average career.

Boyd does have a commendable rep career though... as a Winger.

To be clear, I think we would have been better off with 1. Milford 7. Taylor too. Hunt wasn't a halfback and as much as I think Taylor sucks, I reckon he could have been something special under a good coach like Bennett. Then again, he did choose money. He chose the easy road and went over to a shit club. Not a mindset that screams long term star.

I wish Bennett was more stubborn in keeping players like Taylor but he did the right thing, the same way Seibold did in letting Roberts, Kahu, McGuire, Niko and so on, go elsewhere. You don't want to keep players who aren't 110% committed to the club and wanting to play for the coach.

Sure, could Bennett have moved Hunt on earlier? Yes, but at that point in time Hunt had earned his stripes far more than gifting a young brat the 7 jersey straight away. Bennett kind of hinted at it recently, that the players get paid too much too soon in the way of ridiculous offers and it ruins careers, and I think, without him actually saying it, he meant exactly Ash Taylor.

As for your last few lines, I think that's bollocks. Boyd is a Clive Churchill grand final winner. Has never lost a game in the Australian jersey. Was part of QLD's 8 straight runs, a genuine great player. Comparing him to Macca just reeks of bias.

Macca is straight up hot garbage and has never been anything better than slightly above average and it has only been more apparent by the year how useless he really is. Why Bennett never dropped him, I'll never know, but I sure hope Seibold does. There's a reason Boyd was a mainstay in very successful rep teams and Macca cracked one game bradbury style and was promptly replaced by a halfback for the next 5 games and isn't even in the picture for rep selection.

Boyd never was/is a superstar but he was always well above average and up until this year (half of last year) was genuinely deserving of his spot. I too don't think he's a fullback anymore, whatever the reason he sucks there now. If he can keep defending like he did last night, I think he'd be a very good centre for another year or two but ideally I'd like to see him hang up the boots by year's end.

Now either you over rate Macca, I under rate him, or it's a mix of both but Macca could only dream to be considered on Boyd's level. He wouldn't make my top 200 Broncos list. I'd have Granville, Hunt, Turpin, Segeyaro, Berrigan, Priddis, Ennis, Casey McGuire and maybe even Josh McGuire ahead of him in the hooking position alone. The only fullbacks I'd have ahead of Boyd at their peak is obviously the great Lockyer and K Hunt. Although if Hodges wasn't injury plagued he'd be my 2nd best Broncos fullback of all time.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Agree with everything you've said Porthoz but thought it was funny you said "never been much of bagging players" before going on to bag half of the last 10 years broncos players (poetic license for dramatic effect).

 

[GCBRONCO]

There are two Broncos I'd still have ahead of Boyd at fullback for the Broncos are Paul Hauff and Juilian O'Neill(who IMO was the future prototype for playmaking fullbacks) for an alltime perspective. Heck I think even Robbie Ross could have been a better prospect if he got to stay at the Broncos and not have to go to the Hunter Mariners(then again he was never going to displace Lockyer).

 

[mrslong]

To be clear, I think we would have been better off with 1. Milford 7. Taylor too. Hunt wasn't a halfback and as much as I think Taylor sucks, I reckon he could have been something special under a good coach like Bennett. Then again, he did choose money. He chose the easy road and went over to a shit club. Not a mindset that screams long term star.

I wish Bennett was more stubborn in keeping players like Taylor but he did the right thing, the same way Seibold did in letting Roberts, Kahu, McGuire, Niko and so on, go elsewhere. You don't want to keep players who aren't 110% committed to the club and wanting to play for the coach.

Sure, could Bennett have moved Hunt on earlier? Yes, but at that point in time Hunt had earned his stripes far more than gifting a young brat the 7 jersey straight away. Bennett kind of hinted at it recently, that the players get paid too much too soon in the way of ridiculous offers and it ruins careers, and I think, without him actually saying it, he meant exactly Ash Taylor.

As for your last few lines, I think that's bollocks. Boyd is a Clive Churchill grand final winner. Has never lost a game in the Australian jersey. Was part of QLD's 8 straight runs, a genuine great player. Comparing him to Macca just reeks of bias.

Macca is straight up hot garbage and has never been anything better than slightly above average and it has only been more apparent by the year how useless he really is. Why Bennett never dropped him, I'll never know, but I sure hope Seibold does. There's a reason Boyd was a mainstay in very successful rep teams and Macca cracked one game bradbury style and was promptly replaced by a halfback for the next 5 games and isn't even in the picture for rep selection.

Boyd never was/is a superstar but he was always well above average and up until this year (half of last year) was genuinely deserving of his spot. I too don't think he's a fullback anymore, whatever the reason he sucks there now. If he can keep defending like he did last night, I think he'd be a very good centre for another year or two but ideally I'd like to see him hang up the boots by year's end.

Now either you over rate Macca, I under rate him, or it's a mix of both but Macca could only dream to be considered on Boyd's level. He wouldn't make my top 200 Broncos list. I'd have Granville, Hunt, Turpin, Segeyaro, Berrigan, Priddis, Ennis, Casey McGuire and maybe even Josh McGuire ahead of him in the hooking position alone. The only fullbacks I'd have ahead of Boyd at their peak is obviously the great Lockyer and K Hunt. Although if Hodges wasn't injury plagued he'd be my 2nd best Broncos fullback of all time.

Nailed it. Except for fullback, Julian O’Neill was bloody good in the early 90s, I’d have him ahead of Boyd also. Phil lee, kerrod Walters, Barry berrigan & Johnny Plath also ahead of Macca. Old timer alert.

 

[Jedhead]

Last night's result should be sounding alarm bells if they have not gone off already. We've already lost four points to games where we could not manufacture a clutch play to see out the result. We almost lost last night's too.

As part of our weekly training I wish Siebs would allocate some time and planning to practising different scenarios for a field goal.

I'm sure we can come up with three alternative plans that incorporate Milf, Seggy and Isaako. Planning so that each one practice the scenario is quite easy to organise and it will pay huge dividends in terms of points and higher placing in the league ladder by season's end.

 

[Porthoz]

To be clear, I think we would have been better off with 1. Milford 7. Taylor too. Hunt wasn't a halfback and as much as I think Taylor sucks, I reckon he could have been something special under a good coach like Bennett. Then again, he did choose money. He chose the easy road and went over to a shit club. Not a mindset that screams long term star.

I wish Bennett was more stubborn in keeping players like Taylor but he did the right thing, the same way Seibold did in letting Roberts, Kahu, McGuire, Niko and so on, go elsewhere. You don't want to keep players who aren't 110% committed to the club and wanting to play for the coach.

Sure, could Bennett have moved Hunt on earlier? Yes, but at that point in time Hunt had earned his stripes far more than gifting a young brat the 7 jersey straight away. Bennett kind of hinted at it recently, that the players get paid too much too soon in the way of ridiculous offers and it ruins careers, and I think, without him actually saying it, he meant exactly Ash Taylor.

As for your last few lines, I think that's bollocks. Boyd is a Clive Churchill grand final winner. Has never lost a game in the Australian jersey. Was part of QLD's 8 straight runs, a genuine great player. Comparing him to Macca just reeks of bias.

Macca is straight up hot garbage and has never been anything better than slightly above average and it has only been more apparent by the year how useless he really is. Why Bennett never dropped him, I'll never know, but I sure hope Seibold does. There's a reason Boyd was a mainstay in very successful rep teams and Macca cracked one game bradbury style and was promptly replaced by a halfback for the next 5 games and isn't even in the picture for rep selection.

Boyd never was/is a superstar but he was always well above average and up until this year (half of last year) was genuinely deserving of his spot. I too don't think he's a fullback anymore, whatever the reason he sucks there now. If he can keep defending like he did last night, I think he'd be a very good centre for another year or two but ideally I'd like to see him hang up the boots by year's end.

Now either you over rate Macca, I under rate him, or it's a mix of both but Macca could only dream to be considered on Boyd's level. He wouldn't make my top 200 Broncos list. I'd have Granville, Hunt, Turpin, Segeyaro, Berrigan, Priddis, Ennis, Casey McGuire and maybe even Josh McGuire ahead of him in the hooking position alone. The only fullbacks I'd have ahead of Boyd at their peak is obviously the great Lockyer and K Hunt. Although if Hodges wasn't injury plagued he'd be my 2nd best Broncos fullback of all time.

Mate, I rate Boyd as a great player in the 3/4 line, where he was a mainstay for Australia and Maroons. I absolutely believe he could still be very good for the Broncos there as well.
My problem is and has always been his ability as Fullback!

You can't bring up his career in the rep arena to defend him as a Fullback, because with the exception of 2017 where he kinda of went there by default (thanks to a great 2016 and everyone else above him being injured), he pretty much always played on the wing.

The Clive Churchill medal is based on a single game (even if it is the Grand Final), and has little relevance to a player's career. Brent Kite, amongst a few other middle of the pack players I can't remember, won one too... does that make him a great?

He is and has been bog average with the exception of 2 seasons (2010 and 2016) as Fullback, which is pretty much par for the course in regards to Macca's career as a Hooker.
That is the only comparison I am making and yes, there probably is a degree of rating Boyd way less than you, and Macca certainly a bit more (again, in the discussed positions).

As to Taylor, Bennett made very clear he was no chance of getting a look in any time soon, because he was never going to move Boyd for Milf, and Hunt + Milf had a mortgage on the 2 halves positions.
Given the above, I agree with what Bennett did, encouraging Taylor to go somewhere else, and I also understand why Taylor decided to stay at the Tits, given their offer (including bringing a coach who would build a team around him) and the fact he had been shown no faith from the Broncos coach at the time.
It is obvious now that he fucked up big time with that choice, but hindsight is always 20/20...

Agree with everything you've said Porthoz but thought it was funny you said "never been much of bagging players" before going on to bag half of the last 10 years broncos players (poetic license for dramatic effect).

Drama Queen!

 

[Old Mate]

Last night's result should be sounding alarm bells if they have not gone off already. We've already lost four points to games where we could not manufacture a clutch play to see out the result. We almost lost last night's too.

As part of our weekly training I wish Siebs would allocate some time and planning to practising different scenarios for a field goal.

I'm sure we can come up with three alternative plans that incorporate Milf, Seggy and Isaako. Planning so that each one practice the scenario is quite easy to organise and it will pay huge dividends in terms of points and higher placing in the league ladder by season's end.

I’m sure they’ve got practices in place, when you’re missing 20 halfbacks at your club due to injury it tends to throw things off a bit.

 

[WASSHHH]

Hodges not playing more fullback has to be up there in the sadness stakes with JYY’s career being cut short.

That second half of 2006 and all the sporadic appearances afterwards showed how much of a weapon he truly was. Not as good a ball player as Lockyer from 1, but one of the most elusive ball runners I’ve seen. So silky and refined, just seemed to cover the ground with consummate ease and of course, had that wicked step.

To digress, comparisons have been made to Inglis, but from the little I’ve seen, Coates looks more like a hybrid between Hodges and Folau - covers the ground smoothly but can pluck the ball over the top of anyone.

Anyway back on topic, sad to think what could have been with both Hodges and JYY.

 

[Jedhead]

I’m sure they’ve got practices in place, when you’re missing 20 halfbacks at your club due to injury it tends to throw things off a bit.

I think they had everyone on board for the Dragons and Tigers games though.

 

[Kimlo]

Mate, I rate Boyd as a great player in the 3/4 line, where he was a mainstay for Australia and Maroons. I absolutely believe he could still be very good for the Broncos there as well.
My problem is and has always been his ability as Fullback!

You can't bring up his career in the rep arena to defend him as a Fullback, because with the exception of 2017 where he kinda of went there by default (thanks to a great 2016 and everyone else above him being injured), he pretty much always played on the wing.

The Clive Churchill medal is based on a single game (even if it is the Grand Final), and has little relevance to a player's career. Brent Kite, amongst a few other middle of the pack players I can't remember, won one too... does that make him a great?

He is and has been bog average with the exception of 2 seasons (2010 and 2016) as Fullback, which is pretty much par for the course in regards to Macca's career as a Hooker.
That is the only comparison I am making and yes, there probably is a degree of rating Boyd way less than you, and Macca certainly a bit more (again, in the discussed positions).

As to Taylor, Bennett made very clear he was no chance of getting a look in any time soon, because he was never going to move Boyd for Milf, and Hunt + Milf had a mortgage on the 2 halves positions.
Given the above, I agree with what Bennett did, encouraging Taylor to go somewhere else, and I also understand why Taylor decided to stay at the Tits, given their offer (including bringing a coach who would build a team around him) and the fact he had been shown no faith from the Broncos coach at the time.
It is obvious now that he fucked up big time with that choice, but hindsight is always 20/20...


Drama Queen!

The only reason any of those achievements matter is it proves Boyd can actually perform and be a star at the highest level. Macca has not done anything of any note, ever. So the chance of him suddenly doing so 11 years into his career is below zero. He's average-to-crap, always has been, always will be. Probably a fantastic ISC player though but a good first grader he is not. That's why I defend Boyd and not Macca. One has proven performance at the highest level, one does not. What am I going to defend Macca on?

The only thing he ever had on his side is that he's young so should get better (lol) and that he doesn't have any real clangers in his game, that's about it. Boyd also has versatility in that he probably could be a very good centre, I even thought he was fantastic at 5/8 although I can't see him offering value there long term. Macca is a 9 and that's it. He really just hurts the team by being in it at all. We can't put him somewhere else, he is in the most important position on the field and murders our attack.


FWIW, I'd still take Taylor back if he agreed to a 1 year contract relative to his actual form, AKA about 100-200K and he can prove he deserves a better contract. I won't ever blame Taylor for taking the money, 4 million for 4 years is absurd, he'd be a fool not to bank that but it does mean he doesn't back himself as a long term star IMO.

 

[Old Mate]

I think they had everyone on board for the Dragons and Tigers games though.

I think I built up mental blocks for those games.

 

[Jedhead]

I think I built up mental blocks for those games.

So too have the coaching staff I fear. We need to be nailing these shortcomings down if we are serious about becoming a real premiership contender.

 

[Marty Deutschmann]

Unsatisfying... can’t even remember what a draw feels like to be honest. When was our last?
Only joy I got from golden point was seeing Macca sitting on the bench during crunch time.

Absolutely

 

[WASSHHH]

This article states RTS broke Minichiello's running metres record from 2004, but I could have sworn Hodges set (and still held until this weekend gone) the record from a game late in the 2006 season.

RTS reveals secret to record-breaking metre-eating ways

Warriors captain Roger Tuivasa-Sheck has a simple answer for why he was able to run for 367 metres and set a new NRL record for most running metres in a game in the 18-all draw with Broncos.

www.nrl.com

I’m not taking crazy pills am I?

 

[Marty Deutschmann]

That TPJ strip was so dumb. We were in the lead, you only do that stupid stuff if you need to score.
Give me strength!

I actually thought that was pretty borderline 1 on 1 after lodge pulled out / wasn't barely involved.

 

[McHunt]

The only reason any of those achievements matter is it proves Boyd can actually perform and be a star at the highest level. Macca has not done anything of any note, ever. So the chance of him suddenly doing so 11 years into his career is below zero.

This 100 times.

We know Boyd has it in him to be a matchwinner. He has the skillset. We've seen it.

Same with Milford, though I'm starting to lose hope that it's ever going to happen for him. We seem to be perpetually waiting for him to fully blossom but so far only glimpses of brilliance.

So fine, lay into them: they're sucking up the salary cap. Whatever puts a cracker under their arses.

Meanwhile, Macca keeps cruising along. Never a bad game. Never a great game. Stats look good. But we look shit. There's no reason to get up him to try harder. He's never going to be Cameron Smith.

 

[Marty Deutschmann]

Haas 100% should be man of the match. Followed by Milford and then lodge (for Broncos). For warriors probably RTS and Tevaga.

Did you see the votes from Billy Moore? 3 to Nikorima, 2 to lodge and 1 to RTS. Did he watch the game? Nikorima made a couple big errors and couldn't close out the game.

Nikorima was miles in front of our 5/8th...
And he got MOM for Broncos. So yeah.. he is probably right