The Dolphins discussion

[1910]

Also what does that mean for the Warriors? Was the Redcliffe affiliation merely a short term arrangement to help develop their extended squad or do they have designs of bringing Australian talent through their ranks? It would seem odd to abandon the idea altogether but there's very few clubs to pick from.

Are the Jets open to a partnership? They have an affiliation with the Newcastle Knights but as far as I'm aware it's a situation where the Jets send a few players down to take part in the Knights pre-season and potentially earn a contract. Newcastle don't send any players to the Jets, which is odd considering they don't have a Flegg team. You would think a few of those players would benefit from playing some QCup, especially if the Knights are in town.

If not the Jets it would only leave the CQ Capras as the non-affiliate Queensland based club and the Warriors would have their work cut out for them to make it worth their while. It could work but it's not as comfortable an arrangement as the Dolphins obviously were.

Yeah ideally you'd like to be trialling a few things next year but that's hard to do with the Warriors staying in your spare room.

Jets and CQ are the only ones without a real feeder arrangement.

 

[BroncosFever]

"You can't say he was a failure "

Of course you can, it all depends upon how you define failure.

I'd probably say he was less of a failure, but just savagely over paid. You want a second rower to make strong carries, and score some barnstorming tries.....he did that, so in that sense he didn't fail. He did what you expect of a top quality second rower. (Although I might suggest he is a bit of a flat track bully, but that's another argument).
The problem is the amount he is being paid. You expect a million dollar plus player to win you the big games and make you a genuine premiership threat. The Titans were never that. And Fifi never looked like dragging them there single handledly, and you need your million+ player to do that. So in that sense he failed.
But the real failure here are the morons at the Titans who paid him that. I think it's highly unlikely he will get that much again because anyone who actually watches the games can see he isn't worth it, but when you look at teams like the Tigers, you get the feeling their recruitment staff don't watch games so I guess anything is possible.

I don't think any backrower is capable of single handedly winning you games, that's always going to be the concern about signing backrowers on 1 million dollar contracts, even if they make 200 metres every week.. they still won't be the ones who execute the plays that get the points.

It was obviously a desperation signing for a club that has been desperately in a mess for a long time. I would say the real failure at the Titans would be Ash Taylor.

 

[McHunt]

The Dolphins make me less confident in keeping Haas. Hopefully Wayne retires before his contract finishes.

If Payne leaves he's likely to be the least of our concerns. It depends on WHY he leaves.

Not to play down his talent, but if one thing having by far the best prop in the comp has shown us, it's that having the best prop in the comp doesn't win you games.

Let's look at some of the reasons he might leave:

1. We can't afford to pay him his market value. That would mean we've put money elsewhere and he's not our top priority. Not necessarily a bad sign. It would mean we have other players we want to keep more. Something we currently lack.

2. He doesn't see eye to eye with the coach or other players and wants out. That's either a vote of no confidence in the club, which isn't a great sign. Or he's part of the problem. Our position on the table will change how you feel about that.

3. He wants to be part of a winning team. If that's the case, we have bigger problems.

4. Rather than being driven away, he's being attracted to another personality, like Bellamy, Bennett, Crowe etc. Again, a sign we have bigger problems.

As basic as this sounds, we don't need to worry about Payne leaving. We have to worry about winning.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Fifita certainly misfired at the Titans........

 

[Sproj]

Obviously the Titans needed to overpay to get him away from the Broncs. It worked and next contract he will likely be around 700k. So it might be hard for another team to take him on if they need to pay more to get him out.

 

[BroncsFan]

Obviously the Titans needed to overpay to get him away from the Broncs. It worked and next contract he will likely be around 700k. So it might be hard for another team to take him on if they need to pay more to get him out.

Titans may have been playing the long game... pay him high to get him to the club and then when it comes time to re-sign hope that he's settled in and doesnt want to leave.

Offer up a deal for what he's actually worth and then he has to make the decision on if he wants to leave or stay.

Also whilst in the process see if you can get him to burn his bridges at the Broncos to take a competitor out of the market.

 

[McHunt]

Obviously the Titans needed to overpay to get him away from the Broncs. It worked and next contract he will likely be around 700k. So it might be hard for another team to take him on if they need to pay more to get him out.

Signing Fifita was a masterstroke for the Titans. In 2019, they were wooden spooners. In 2021, they made the finals. We'll be happy if that's our story next year.

Fifita ended the season with 17 tries from 22 games, equaling Matt Burton from 26 games. Cody Walker, who everyone agrees had a blinder of a year, scored 16 from 25. What's more almost all of those tries were solo efforts created out of nothing. It wasn't like he was finishing on the end of a backline.

Meanwhile back in Brisbane, the Broncos players of the season: Haas 1 from 20, Farnworth 3 from 20, and Hetherington 3 from 14. And the second rower we retained, Alex Glenn: 2 from 18. Our attack was shithouse.

But more importantly he got fans talking about the Titans, about their audacity in paying so much to a second rower. How they stole the Broncos prize forward and humiliated the club. He brought in eyeballs. He raised expectations and brought a little pride with him. And that's what it's all about.

You can sour grapes other stats but nothing matters more than tries. It's why I dump on Herbie Farnworth regardless of how busy he looks. Crossing the line is the object of the game. David Fifita did that in spades in 2021. Like no other Titan before him.

 

[Financeguy]

Titans may have been playing the long game... pay him high to get him to the club and then when it comes time to re-sign hope that he's settled in and doesnt want to leave.

Offer up a deal for what he's actually worth and then he has to make the decision on if he wants to leave or stay.

Also whilst in the process see if you can get him to burn his bridges at the Broncos to take a competitor out of the market.

Agree, yeah they paid overs but they had to. Now they got him playing finals vs. his old club languishing in the bottom 4.

Next contract he will be offered less but unless anyone else is willing to stump up $1M he would need another reason to leave and i guess the Titans are hoping he is settled enough to stay.

 

[Wolfie]

The Dolphins make me less confident in keeping Haas. Hopefully Wayne retires before his contract finishes.

If Wayne keeps going it could be an issue. He's openly admitted he only signed for us because of Wayne. Cant see Wayne going on more then 3 years so i think we would be safe.

 

[WASSHHH]

If Wayne keeps going it could be an issue. He's openly admitted he only signed for us because of Wayne. Cant see Wayne going on more then 3 years so i think we would be safe.

TPJ only signed with us for Wayne. Same with Lodge. They stuck around beyond him and then signed for other clubs not coached by Wayne.

It gets bandied around far too much, but RL really is just a business these days. Players will go (or stay) wherever they are getting what they want. For most of them, it’s either money or success.

Very few care about loyalty anymore.

 

[Sproj]

Signing Fifita was a masterstroke for the Titans. In 2019, they were wooden spooners. In 2021, they made the finals. We'll be happy if that's our story next year.

Fifita ended the season with 17 tries from 22 games, equaling Matt Burton from 26 games. Cody Walker, who everyone agrees had a blinder of a year, scored 16 from 25. What's more almost all of those tries were solo efforts created out of nothing. It wasn't like he was finishing on the end of a backline.

Meanwhile back in Brisbane, the Broncos players of the season: Haas 1 from 20, Farnworth 3 from 20, and Hetherington 3 from 14. And the second rower we retained, Alex Glenn: 2 from 18. Our attack was shithouse.

But more importantly he got fans talking about the Titans, about their audacity in paying so much to a second rower. How they stole the Broncos prize forward and humiliated the club. He brought in eyeballs. He raised expectations and brought a little pride with him. And that's what it's all about.

You can sour grapes other stats but nothing matters more than tries. It's why I dump on Herbie Farnworth regardless of how busy he looks. Crossing the line is the object of the game. David Fifita did that in spades in 2021. Like no other Titan before him.

Did he bring in fans though? Even a 200% increase isn’t impressive when the starting number of fans was 1.

 

[Wolfie]

TPJ only signed with us for Wayne. Same with Lodge. They stuck around beyond him and then signed for other clubs not coached by Wayne.

It gets bandied around far too much, but RL really is just a business these days. Players will go (or stay) wherever they are getting what they want. For most of them, it’s either money or success.

Very few care about loyalty anymore.

To a point you are right, but at the same time, Wayne is a draw. If common knowledge plenty of players have chosen to go to a club based on Wayne being coach. Lodge and TPJ didnt go and resign for Bennett because he didnt try to get them to his current club, not because they turned down Wayne Bennett. I really think you are underestimating his pull. The only thing i think would be an issue for Redcliffe will be that this time around, Bennett isnt ( i wouldnt think anyway, you never know with him ) going to be a long term coach, so younger players may think twice about just moving to a club to play under him for 2 or 3 years.

 

[McHunt]

Did he bring in fans though? Even a 200% increase isn’t impressive when the starting number of fans was 1.

Yes, though in fairness, brand ambassador Gorden Tallis should get some of the credit:

Titans break off-field records in 2021

The Gold Coast Titans have smashed off-field records in what has been a hugely successful season for the club. On-field as the Titans returned to the NRL finals, off-field the Titans Legion grew to record levels.

www.titans.com.au

 

[BroncosFever]

Signing Fifita was a masterstroke for the Titans. In 2019, they were wooden spooners. In 2021, they made the finals. We'll be happy if that's our story next year.

Fifita ended the season with 17 tries from 22 games, equaling Matt Burton from 26 games. Cody Walker, who everyone agrees had a blinder of a year, scored 16 from 25. What's more almost all of those tries were solo efforts created out of nothing. It wasn't like he was finishing on the end of a backline.

Meanwhile back in Brisbane, the Broncos players of the season: Haas 1 from 20, Farnworth 3 from 20, and Hetherington 3 from 14. And the second rower we retained, Alex Glenn: 2 from 18. Our attack was shithouse.

But more importantly he got fans talking about the Titans, about their audacity in paying so much to a second rower. How they stole the Broncos prize forward and humiliated the club. He brought in eyeballs. He raised expectations and brought a little pride with him. And that's what it's all about.

You can sour grapes other stats but nothing matters more than tries. It's why I dump on Herbie Farnworth regardless of how busy he looks. Crossing the line is the object of the game. David Fifita did that in spades in 2021. Like no other Titan before him.

I agree with that.

I have seen many talk up Bullemor as being one we shouldn't have let go, you take his tries out of it and was he even noticed out there for us this season? It seems people are disappointed to see Bullemor let go but at the same time want to discredit David Fifita's output at the Titans.

I'm not stupid, I know they are probably earning approximately 900k difference, you can't compare them like for like but just on the logic of it all. One bloke scores tries and people get upset that they don't retain him, another bloke scores tries constantly and he's considered a failure, I don't get it.

 

[WASSHHH]

To a point you are right, but at the same time, Wayne is a draw. If common knowledge plenty of players have chosen to go to a club based on Wayne being coach. Lodge and TPJ didnt go and resign for Bennett because he didnt try to get them to his current club, not because they turned down Wayne Bennett. I really think you are underestimating his pull. The only thing i think would be an issue for Redcliffe will be that this time around, Bennett isnt ( i wouldnt think anyway, you never know with him ) going to be a long term coach, so younger players may think twice about just moving to a club to play under him for 2 or 3 years.

I don’t underestimate the pull he had and certainly agree that plenty of players have signed purely for Bennett in the past, but a lot has changed over the years. Now there is the lure of playing under Bellamy / at the super successful Storm, or Robinson at the Roosters. Even Penrith are forming quite an appealing destination if success is what you are after.

For the first few years at least, which will also most likely coincide with Bennett retiring; at best Redcliffe will be like the early Broncos. They won’t have premiership history to lure players. They will be trying to forge their own identity and build some success.

Honestly, if I’m a player in and around NRL teams right now, I’m not sure I would relocate my life just to play under Bennett for maybe a couple of years at a startup club. All things being equal, there are more appealing propositions, at least in my opinion.

If you asked me the same question about the 90’s and early 00’s Broncos though, for sure I would. They had the best coach in the ARL / NRL, a lot of the best players and the most success.

 

[McHunt]

I agree with that.

I have seen many talk up Bullemor as being one we shouldn't have let go, you take his tries out of it and was he even noticed out there for us this season? It seems people are disappointed to see Bullemor let go but at the same time want to discredit David Fifita's output at the Titans.

I'm not stupid, I know they are probably earning approximately 900k difference, you can't compare them like for like but just on the logic of it all. One bloke scores tries and people get upset that they don't retain him, another bloke scores tries constantly and he's considered a failure, I don't get it.

Well I'm not saying we should've equaled their bid, only that the Titans were able to beat us because we wouldn't/couldn't. And that's not to say the amount they're paying him won't come back and bite them on the arse later. Like Milford and Bird did to us. But 2021, mission accomplished.

Like you say, if we had a player who could score tries seemingly at will like him, I'm sure we'd forgive other aspects of his game. Oh, that's right, we do: Kotoni Staggs.

 

[Aldo]

Did he bring in fans though? Even a 200% increase isn’t impressive when the starting number of fans was 1.

The Don?

 

[Santa]

Yes, though in fairness, brand ambassador Gorden Tallis should get some of the credit:

Titans break off-field records in 2021

The Gold Coast Titans have smashed off-field records in what has been a hugely successful season for the club. On-field as the Titans returned to the NRL finals, off-field the Titans Legion grew to record levels.

www.titans.com.au

Damn, reading that it sounds pretty impressive!