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007 said:
It is as big call.

1) Melbourne aren't the only team to have rorted the cap, however they did get busted. Others have escaped.
2)Belly/his system helped to make those three what they become. They didn't instantly become superstars and all learned hard lessons.
3)Every team goes through a shit patch
4)If you don't push the rules you're not competing, i also don't agree with the style, but it changed the game and mastered the game.
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Others may have cheated, some may have gotten away with it, but the scale of Melbourne's offending was exceptional. They were 25% over the cap in 2009 and 2010, equivalent to being more than $2.4M over in the current season.
Bellamy helped Smith Slater and Cronk become better players, part of this may also have come from them being surrounded by gun players enabled through salary cap cheating. I'm not sure this counts as a huge stroke in Bellamy's favour, plenty of coaches have brought through plenty of stars. Bennett himself may have had a thing or two to do with a few half decent players.
I don't think constantly exploiting loopholes or flat out breaking the rules knowing you won't get penalised 80 times a game is the sign of a great coach. Certainly Bellamy is very good but I wouldn't say he's great let alone the greatest.
 
broncos4life said:
For all reports the deal was done, right done to Seibs being told to have his desk packed because Bennett was going to be there on Monday.

Honestly though I am not getting into this again, it is clear that some people will not acknowledge both sides and must maintain that Bennett is some kind of messiah so I’ll just leave it at that.
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Obviously it wasn't done properly then if monday came and Bennett was still here.

It's not about Bennett being the messiah either. I dislike inconsistency. If coach B is a bastard who shouldn't be respected for taking coach A's job, why is coach C a top bloke for taking coach B's job? If one coach lies to the media it's evidence of his huge ego, compulsive lying and a host of other character flaws, another does it and that's a-ok. Hell, if anyone thinks Bennett shouldn't have been sacked there are people who'll tell them to go follow Souths then, I don't recall those who spent the last year or 3 criticising Bennett being told to go follow the Panthers, or the Titans because they thought we should have kept Ash Taylor. You either judge everyone by the sane standard or don't do it at all.
 
abashii said:
Obviously it wasn't done properly then if monday came and Bennett was still here.

It's not about Bennett being the messiah either. I dislike inconsistency. If coach B is a bastard who shouldn't be respected for taking coach A's job, why is coach C a top bloke for taking coach B's job? If one coach lies to the media it's evidence of his huge ego, compulsive lying and a host of other character flaws, another does it and that's a-ok. Hell, if anyone thinks Bennett shouldn't have been sacked there are people who'll tell them to go follow Souths then, I don't recall those who spent the last year or 3 criticising Bennett being told to go follow the Panthers, or the Titans because they thought we should have kept Ash Taylor. You either judge everyone by the sane standard or don't do it at all.
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This kind of thinking is rare on this site. It's only the quality posters who try and have a balanced view on all things. Personally I use the 'what if it were me' method. How would I like to be judged? How would I like a family member judged?

I loved this next thought experiment. You're in charge and make the rules for everyone in the world, in everything and situation. You get to live in this world of your making. You DON'T get to choose which role or part you play. Go.
 
Cult3 said:
He doesn’t push the rules. He breaks them and gets away with it because the NRL need a strong Melbourne team. He’s done literally nothing positive for the game and he’s lucky that Smith is there to coach the team so he can go psycho and yell hysterically every so often
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How hasn't he done anything positive for the game? I would argue a successful Melbourne team is very positive for the game.

Bring up the cap rorting all you like. That was 10 years ago and the Storm are still the benchmark.
 
Would put Bennett as overall no.1. But he has slipped pretty far in recent years.Bellamy is better these days.Still want to see how he goes without smith though.
 
Super Freak said:
How hasn't he done anything positive for the game? I would argue a successful Melbourne team is very positive for the game.

Bring up the cap rorting all you like. That was 10 years ago and the Storm are still the benchmark.
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How would you argue that? An extra few thousand members could be found anywhere in Australia. That’s all they bring. No Melbourne juniors and 15 years of negative football that hasn’t been outlawed, creating some of the most boring footy there’s ever been. He’s done way more harm than good for the game
 
abashii said:
Why was it worse? Both cases the Broncos publicly backed their coach while privately bringing someone else in. Did you lose respect for Seibold? How about when he had a sook to the papers because mean old Wayne Bennett had turned down a swap deal at the last minute and made Siebold's kiddies cry?
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2 reasons:
- He had that same year said he would never take a job at a club with a sitting coach under contract. (Yeah I know, suddenly direct lies are not a problem... when they're from WB's mouth.)
- He was then the one who approached the Broncos, not the other way around.

Seibold did none of those things as far as I know. He was collateral damage and reacted to the uncertainty that WB's manipulations as well as "I'm going/I'm not going" bullshit brought him and his family.
That you'd use him being upset about his kids to defend your messiah, is really more telling about you than him.

Hook also showed way more integrity about being stabbed in the back by Bennett, than WB about both his return and final exit of the Broncos.

So no, there is no possible comparison between the respect one or the other deserves, and I absolutely love it that Wayne will forever have "sacked by the Broncos" next to backstabber on his resume.

broncsgoat said:
I was quoting his comment ironically
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Really? You don't think success is brought about by hard work? Please tell me how you think it is achieved.
 
Porthoz said:
Really? You don't think success is brought about by hard work? Please tell me how you think it is achieved.
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I didn’t say that at all.

My comment was that it’s a bit rich for someone with no success to be questioning the methods of the most successful coach of all time.
 
Credit where credit is due boys,

Bellamy may have had Smith, Cronk Slater etc, but Wayne also had some of the greatest ever players during his first reign at the Broncs, and quality rep players when he won a premiership at the Dragons

That said, when it comes to results Wayne (MJ) is currently the overall GOAT, Bellamy (LBJ) is a close 2nd.

When it comes down to overal achievements, ie identifying and keeping talent, surrounding himself with, keeping and developing good coaching staff, legally exploiting the system etc, I’d place Bellamy ahead of Wayne

That’s how I see it

As for cheating, it’s only cheating if you get caught and everybody does it,
 
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teampjta said:
Credit where credit is due boys,

Bellamy may have had Smith, Cronk Slater etc, but Wayne also had some of the greatest ever players during his first reign at the Broncs, and quality rep players when he won a premiership at the Dragons

That said, Wayne (MJ) is currently the overall GOAT, Bellamy (LBJ) is a close 2nd. That’s how I see it

As for cheating, it’s only cheating if you get caught and everybody does it,
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We need to see how Bellamy goes without Smith before we even compare him to T Robinson imo. They both control clubs who have taken advantage of the salary cap.
 
broncsgoat said:
I didn’t say that at all.

My comment was that it’s a bit rich for someone with no success to be questioning the methods of the most successful coach of all time.
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Yeah, that's actually exactly what you said, disguised under "irony", the go to excuse at BHQ nowadays.

Whether you like it or not, Seibold has all the right, even duty, to change anything the previous coach did, and implement his own methods to improve the team. If that includes sending a star centre unwilling to put in the effort to the ISC, power to him.

All in all it's a great result for the Broncos. Good riddance to both.
 
Battler said:
We need to see how Bellamy goes without Smith before we even compare him to T Robinson imo. They both control clubs who have taken advantage of the salary cap.
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Damn your quick, I didn’t even get the chance to edit my post
 
I actually think T Robinson is underrated. He had a season or two where they struggled and then thanks to a sombrero that he probably has nothing to do with, bought in some excellent players on the outer at other clubs - Keary, Friend, etc. He bought through some gun kids - Mitchell, Cordner, RTS, SST and gets a lot out of fairly average forwards - Napa, JWH. Isn’t afraid to move on a SOO favourite club son for someone better, Pearce - Cronk. Excellent coach.
 
It's actually hard to really compare coaches - TR, CB, WB have all benefited from cheating or external advantages not available to other clubs in their successful years.

My GOAT would have to still go to Wayne, because he's done it at multiple clubs. I really feel like Wayne won 2015. **** you Hunt, **** you.
 
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Of the modern era, I think that at this stage Bennett is probably the greatest of all time. But there is also no doubt that the second half of his NSWRL/NRL coaching career has been no where near as productive as the first half - first 14 years - 6 grand finals - 5 wins - second - eighteen years - 3 grand finals - 2 wins.
 
lynx000 said:
Of the modern era, I think that at this stage Bennett is probably the greatest of all time. But there is also no doubt that the second half of his NSWRL/NRL coaching career has been no where near as productive as the first half - first 14 years - 6 grand finals - 5 wins - second - eighteen years - 3 grand finals - 2 wins.
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Hasn't had the cattle in recent years. Started with virtually a state side. St George was the exception, they were ready made for him and possibly Rabbits this year for the same reason. It’s all relative really, great players go a long way in helping make a great team and a great coach.
 
I would argue that the ‘15 Broncos were pretty much ready made for him too.

Blair played quite well in the backend of that year but was pretty average to below average aside from that. Boyd added something but was it more than a motivated Barba could offer?
 
Cult3 said:
How would you argue that? An extra few thousand members could be found anywhere in Australia. That’s all they bring. No Melbourne juniors and 15 years of negative football that hasn’t been outlawed, creating some of the most boring footy there’s ever been. He’s done way more harm than good for the game
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Okay so I guess we're throwing facts out the window now.

But I'm curious to hear the data you've collected to show how Bellamy and Storm have done more harm than good? Breaking membership records, recording profits, expanding Rugby League and all of this in a state where Rugby League barely existed if at all when they were brought in. How is that not a positive for the game?

But they brought in the wrestle and rorted the cap over a decade ago.

As for Melbourne Storm playing boring footy. It's pretty clear you don't watch them play much.

I don't like Storm as much as the next guy but to say they aren't doing positive things for the game is one of the biggest loads of shit I've ever heard.
 
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