Israel Folau’s secret meeting with the Brisbane Broncos revealed

soup said:

At a University. Inclusiveness isn’t optional, nor should it be.

And no, those two things aren’t equal. One is all about hate while the other is about love. Not hard to see the difference. You are showing your true colours though.

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Showing my true colours? Lol ok snowflake.

I dont agree with what Folau said. Religion is fucking stupid, and he is fucking stupid for believing that shit, but hes allowed too do it, well he should be anyway.

Gay people arent going to hell because there isnt a hell.

broncsgoat said:

Showing my true colours? Lol ok snowflake.

I dont agree with what Folau said. Religion is fucking stupid, and he is fucking stupid for believing that shit, but hes allowed too do it, well he should be anyway.

Gay people arent going to hell because there isnt a hell.

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We need to invoke a companion to Godwin's Law. First person to say snowflake loses.

McHunt said:

In my opinion, when you make a ruling like this, you are making a ruling against a religion. I'm pretty sure if the religion was Islam, which leans far harder into the Old Testament and is, in a word, sexist, there would be a higher level of outrage from social justice warriors.

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Rubbish. They would cop it far worse if it was a Muslim athlete preaching this stuff.

Kimlo said:

Rubbish. They would cop it far worse if it was a Muslim athlete preaching this stuff.

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Muslims keep their views to themselves when they're in minority. This is part of the teachings. It's also why ISIS and other Jihadis try to bring their views out in the open through public attacks to draw them back to the Caliphate. But that's a whole other discussion.

My point is that there is no Christian equivalent for the term "Islamophobia," which is presented as defective, bigoted thinking. In fact, it is politically correct to bash the Tea Party for mouthing Christian values that are less conservative than Islam.
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soup said:

Absolutely. They’d just about be extradited, if not drawn and quartered first.

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Most well meaning Australians who use the term Islamophobia have very little understanding of it:

McHunt said:

Muslims keep their views to themselves when they're in minority. This is part of the teachings. It's also why ISIS and other Jihadis try to bring their views out in the open through public attacks to draw them back to the Caliphate. But that's a whole other discussion.

My point is that there is no Christian equivalent for the term "Islamophobia," which is presented as defective, bigoted thinking. In fact, it is politically correct to bash the Tea Party for mouthing Christian values that are less conservative than Islam.
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Most well meaning Australians who use the term Islamophobia have very little understanding of it:

The Punishment For Homosexuality - Islam Question & Answer

Some Companions said that the punishment for homosexuality is to burn the homosexuals with fire, and some of them viewed that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death.

islamqa.info

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Your views on this topic are far less sophisticated than you think they are, not to mention blatantly wrong and total bullshit. You do you though, I won't comment further as it's a boring discussion.

Kimlo said:

Your views on this topic are far less sophisticated than you think they are, not to mention blatantly wrong and total bullshit. You do you though, I won't comment further as it's a boring discussion.

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Like I said, once you start up on Islam you get this kind of pushback presuming you are an ignorant bigot. Usually from people who project Christian values onto a foreign ideology, and have never bothered to take the time to read any of the Sunnah.

McHunt said:

Like I said, once you start up on Islam you get this kind of pushback presuming you are an ignorant bigot. Usually from people who project Christian values onto a foreign ideology, and have never bothered to take the time to read any of the Sunnah.

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Your first line in the previous post is total and utter horse shit. It's the kind of ignorant spew I read from people who are nowhere near as sophistacted as they think they are on the topic but try to pass themselves off as being knowledgable. Anyway, like I said, I'm not really going to discuss the topic at length, it's been done to death on BHQ.

What many of the public are not understanding is this is not a freedom of speech (or belie) issue, his contract was terminated as he breached his ARU contract terms and previous warnings.

Many organisations (i.e government jobs, companies with high public profile) have these stipulations.

If i were to express my political leanings, criticisms of populations of society, i too would lose my job.

NSW stables said:

What many of the public are not understanding is this is not a freedom of speech (or belie) issue, his contract was terminated as he breached his ARU contract terms and previous warnings.

Many organisations (i.e government jobs, companies with high public profile) have these stipulations.

If i were to express my political leanings, criticisms of populations of society, i too would lose my job.

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Part 2: Code of Conduct 1 CODE OF CONDUCT - PLAYERS

1.3 Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.

1.7 Use Social Media appropriately. By all means share your positive experiences of Rugby but do not use Social Media as a means to breach any of the expectations and requirements of you as a player contained in this Code or in any Union, club or competition rules and regulations.

This is something he would have been well aware of and have to agree to when signing with Rugby, much the same expectations I was informed of and agreed to when I started with Blackwoods and that included social media.

Tom said:

He has been told by his pastor and father he is going to hell if he deletes that post.....I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

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My wife got told by her religious friend that I was going to hell because I didn't belive in God. My wife just looked at her and said "isn't your brother gay, and you slept with his (me) friend last night without being married to him?" hahahaha god damn I love my wife... I'm not sure they know what hipocrisy is tbh....

Lockysillegitimatechild said:

My wife got told by her religious friend that I was going to hell because I didn't belive in God. My wife just looked at her and said "isn't your brother gay, and you slept with his (me) friend last night without being married to him?" hahahaha god damn I love my wife... I'm not sure they know what hipocrisy is tbh....

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Wait, who slept with who?

GCBRONCO said:

Part 2: Code of Conduct 1 CODE OF CONDUCT - PLAYERS

1.3 Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.

1.7 Use Social Media appropriately. By all means share your positive experiences of Rugby but do not use Social Media as a means to breach any of the expectations and requirements of you as a player contained in this Code or in any Union, club or competition rules and regulations.

This is something he would have been well aware of and have to agree to when signing with Rugby, much the same expectations I was informed of and agreed to when I started with Blackwoods and that included social media.

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1. a contract can't diminish existing rights, so if the actions of ARU breach his religious freedoms the contract is a moot point.

2. I would argue that he has not breached clause 1.3, he treated everyone equally by quoting a scripture which virtually says that hell awaits everyone.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


The image is put very crudely although a reasonably accurate summation of the verse it is paraphrasing.

However If you look at the word he wrote himself:
"Those that are living in Sin will end up in Hell unless you repent. Jesus Christ loves you and is giving you time to turn away from your sin and come to him. " this clearly includes everyone particularly if looking at additional scriptures.

Sure, be mad at Christianity as this is undeniably its position of homosexuality. But don't persecute a Christian for adhering to the teachings of their faith. If you do, you are then infringing upon religious freedoms.

Now, if he were to treat homosexuals differently to anyone else, he would then be subject to this clause and rightly so. Whether that be by being exclusionary or mocking them or even refusing association with them.

None of this means you need to agree with him. But, if you don't believe the bible none of this should bother you. If you do however what he has stated is pretty reasonable.

However Israel has been an advocate of their inclusion in sport through partnering with the Bingham cup: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-poster-boy-for-gay-rugbys-biggest-tournament

I also want to correct someone else's point on his being advised that the removal of the post would condemn his soul. This is actually a reasonable point... hear me out. The people advising him this have stated that it was foolish for him to post what he did. However, not posting it and removing it are two different things. Whether this is the case is debatable but it is definitely a reasonable argument for a Christian to make:

Matthew 10:33 King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

soup said:

Orgy. Get with the program.

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Praise the Lord......

coreyh88 said:

1. a contract can't diminish existing rights, so if the actions of ARU breach his religious freedoms the contract is a moot point.

Sure, be mad at Christianity as this is undeniably its position of homosexuality. But don't persecute a Christian for adhering to the teachings of their faith. If you do, you are then infringing upon religious freedoms.

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I disagree. They are not infringing upon his religious freedoms. He is entitled to believe what ever he wants, jesus, allah, alien lizard people, the flying spaghetti monster, whatever.

He breached the contract as His use of social media has identified parts of the community, failed to treat them with dignity and perpetuated discriminitive beliefs/opinions. Being a role model in the community, whether he intended to or not, he has promoted this discrimination.

We can argue about it until we are blue in the face but that is what his and the ARU lawyers are being paid to do. Lets get on with the important things, like the footy.

The contract in question doesn't prevent him from being a christian nor having reasonable freedoms and the expectations would be the same for anyone of any faith and atheists as well who in similar situations have also faced punishment for, I know of Muslims and Atheists who have been sacked for similar offences it doesn't just apply to christians. Religious and other freedoms in the workplace isn't a blanket that frees you to say or do anything you want nor meet the requirements set in place, there are still consequences for your actions and this wasn't his first offence either.

A person who doesn't believe in the Christian or Judaism should be concerned about what is in the bible especially when it's often used as a means of discrimination and still to this day is used for horrible things in society. Family members can be disowned for being found to be an atheist or of another religion and it's even worse for the LGBT community which has led to people commiting suicide in situations that could be easily prevented with kindness and understanding(coming out and condemning them to hell doesn't help the situation), not being a drone who quotes from what they have been indocrinated with as justification for doing so. The sad truth is while we have made major improvements over barbaric times in history, we still maintain a lot of that barbaric behaviour, some worse in different places in the world and a lot of that is related to religion.

Funnily enough it was the gay Rugby community that reached out to Folau and Rugby Australia, Folau neither approached Rugby Australia nor the gay Rugby community displaying any self motivation prior to being approached to offer his services to help or be an advocate. That said I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he still helped the gay Rugby community here and I certainly respect that.

It's not unreasonable for him to remove it from his instagram and any genuine existing all powerful and all knowing God would truly know him removing it from instragram doesn't in anyway effect his beliefs in God nor away from social media in public his views which would be still made to people. Do you truly think people he meets in public he will be too afraid to discuss his faith? I don't. There is a huge difference between removing a post from an instagram and outright denying his existence and his faith.

I actually don't view Folau as a horrible person and support his right to follow whatever belief he wants to. I definitely dislike what he did as there are negative consequences to doing so that should be highlighted and open to criticism. If you read earlier in the thread I stated that there have been much worse things done in recent times in League and it would be rich for Folau to be outright disallowed a return to Rugby League without a fair consideration to it, not just outright dismissal without that consideration and discussion. I may support Rugby Union sacking him, but I also support him getting a second opportunity as the majority of people should, If lodge can be given a second opportunity I don't see why Folau can't be at the very least considered.

If he's pretty much quoting Christian scripture, the fact that Christian values aren't the centerpiece of the "moral outrage" about Izzy is confusing the hell out of me.

So, the fact he says it out loud, or online is the issue? Not the religion that preaches it?

Or aren't we allowed to talk about it? It's OK to quietly believe everyone is is going to hell, as long as you don't tweet about it?

Izzy to FB would be nice.

soup said:

Orgy. Get with the program.

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Yep, keys in a bowl time...