Australia v South Africa

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Australia have never lost in South Africa since readmission. Yet we have lost three times at home to South Africa. Three of our four home losses since 1988.

Ashes are over, no more Shield cricket so nothing left to watch to pick the 16.

The certainties: Steve Smith (c), David Warner (vc), Usman Khawaja, Shaun Marsh, Mitch Marsh, Tim Paine, Nathan Lyon, Josh Hazlewood, Mitchell Starc, Patrick Cummins.

That leaves six spots with one warm up game before the Test that game will have to be the Test 11. So hard to force your way into this side now.

The I think they're safe group: Cameron Bancroft, Peter Handscomb, Jackson Bird and Chadd Sayers.

Handscomb could be the second keepr and cover the batting.
Bancroft hanging on just.
Bird and Sayers are the back up bowlers.

Last three seasons of Shield:

Sayers 22 games.
111 wickets.
@22.43
SR 48.77

Bird 16 games.
83 wickets.
@20.05
SR 42.66

Rough chance: Joe Burns, Ashton Agar, Mitchell Swepson.

Burns coming off 200.
Swepson coming off a 5 wickets against SA- average is still too high but they can work on like they did in India.
Agar-seems to be a pet project.

I think the two remaining spots will come from these three. South Africa have a lot more right handed batsmen so Swepson and Agar turning it the opposite way could work.

Too many stories about Maxwell warnings, I think he's going down the Jones, Hodge and Harvey path- could make 300 runs and not be included- too hard.

Renshaw too far behind now so I would go Burns. But they have similar Test records but Burns is just in much better form at the moment.

That gives you the starting 11 from the Ashes, Two back up batsmen, two back up quicks with a seamer and swing bowler and a young spinner project.
 
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roo-ted

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Burns opens for Queensland and has been making runs and can cover middle order.
Our middle order has been great, it's the opening partnership that's the problem. Burns has khawaja tendencies when he's not on song, in saying that S Marsh proved me wrong this series and I'd be just as happy for burns to do the same
 

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Our middle order has been great, it's the opening partnership that's the problem. Burns has khawaja tendencies when he's not on song, in saying that S Marsh proved me wrong this series and I'd be just as happy for burns to do the same
Form or not injuries still happen. Burns is more versatile than Renshaw and is in much much better form- third most runs this season and is playing BBL not club cricket at the moment so in some ways he hasn't lost rhythm from being on the break.
 
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How long does Bancroft get to fail at test level before the axe. I'm all for showing the incumbent loyalty but when the previous incumbent was shown none and form was cited as the reason, we are exactly where I said we might end up.
One bloke axed for poor form his replacement hanging on for the sake of loyalty and being in a winning side with the selectors now digging in to back their selection.
 

1910

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How long does Bancroft get to fail at test level before the axe. I'm all for showing the incumbent loyalty but when the previous incumbent was shown none and form was cited as the reason, we are exactly where I said we might end up.
One bloke axed for poor form his replacement hanging on for the sake of loyalty and being in a winning side with the selectors now digging in to back their selection.
Renshaw didn't make the team because of his horrid Shield form, if the Ashes didn't have four Shield games before it and him averaging 10 then he would have kept his spot.
 

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Last tour to South Africa we took Henriques as the back up all rounder. He didn't play a game. Seems to be the debate again with Stoinis being rumoured to be the last spot. Stoinis would have made his debut at the 'Gabba in the Ashes if he'd not been out with the death of his dad.

Don't need Burns if you have faith in Bancroft. Stonis can cover any injuries to Marsh and the bowlers. Marsh has cemented his spot though for the time being so Stoinis could end up getting some stamps in his passport and not doing much either.
 

Browny

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The wicket dished up by the saffas vs India was nuts. 18 wickets on the last day, both sides bowled out for 130 ish.
 

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Way to miss a point as usual.
I don't think so, If you can't get a run against State bowlers they're not giving you a run in the Ashes against the most successful combination in cricket history.

The Shield form killed him. Bancroft is struggling for runs in Test cricket and they're winning so they can carry him a bit until he finds his feet or they are sure he isn't going to find his feet. Start losing the pressure will come on Bancroft. Not that winning helped Bailey.
 
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I don't think so, If you can't get a run against State bowlers they're not giving you a run in the Ashes against the most successful combination in cricket history.

The Shield form killed him. Bancroft is struggling for runs in Test cricket and they're winning so they can carry him a bit until he finds his feet or they are sure he isn't going to find his feet. Start losing the pressure will come on Bancroft. Not that winning helped Bailey.
Thanks for the explanation. My point was the incumbent was overlooked due to form now the replacement has shit the bed as well even though he had shield runs. How long does he get before he spends the shield currency?
If he is replaced with a new opener then where does that leave the selectors ? how often do they change based on shield form?
Renshaw IMO deserved to be given the chance to fail. We should have persisted based on what he achieved in his test career to date.
Do you disagree?
 

roo-ted

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Thanks for the explanation. My point was the incumbent was overlooked due to form now the replacement has shit the bed as well even though he had shield runs. How long does he get before he spends the shield currency?
If he is replaced with a new opener then where does that leave the selectors ? how often do they change based on shield form?
Renshaw IMO deserved to be given the chance to fail. We should have persisted based on what he achieved in his test career to date.
Do you disagree?
Amen!
 

1910

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Too many stories about Maxwell warnings, I think he's going down the Jones, Hodge and Harvey path- could make 300 runs and not be included- too hard.
THERE are two types of Australian cricketers.
Those who are completely satisfied with their careers and what they achieved, who have no ill-feeling towards any selector, teammate or captain. And those have varying degrees of bitterness.
Cricket may be a heavy numbers game but stats often don’t tell the true story. Just ask Tim Paine, who has played a key part in the current Ashes series but has a modest first-class record. Or Brad Hodge, whose Test average of 55.88 wasn’t enough to save him from the axe.
Here are a selection of recent Australian cricketers who were either dropped or not picked based on reasons that only the selectors at the time knew.
GLENN MAXWELL
Does Maxwell have a personality clash with the Australian team hierarchy that cannot be fixed? Or is he simply too unreliable as a cricketer?
Every time the Victorian seems to have locked in his spot in the Aussie team, he then finds himself out of the XI.
How can a player who averaged 64 at a strike-rate of 182 across six innings in a successful World Cup in 2015 be considered surplus to requirements less than three years later?
Equally, how can a batsman who toiled wonderfully to make 104 off 245 balls in India and followed it up with more runs than any other player in five Sheffield Shield games be on the outer ahead of a tour to South Africa?
Whatever the case, there must be reasons. And no longer can they be purely bad blood between Matthew Wade and Maxwell. But nobody can dispute Maxwell has not been at least a little unlucky not to play more international cricket. And he was especially unfortunate to be dropped for Chris Lynn when you consider the Brisbane Heat star was not able to throw and has a highest score of just 63 at one-day domestic level.
Then, when it appeared there was an opening for Maxwell to return to the setup after Lynn withdrew with a calf injury, Bushrangers teammate Cameron White was selected ahead of him despite not having played an ODI for 30 months.
Watch this space.
SIMON KATICH
Katich averaged 50.48 as an opening batsman for Australia when he was cut from the national contract list in 2011.
The selectors said they were planning for the future after a humiliating Ashes loss at home but Katich thought otherwise, claiming his indifferent relationship with Michael Clarke was the reason for his sudden axing.
Katich also took a swipe at the selectors, saying “if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys,” which was a reference to the fact none of them were full-time employees of Cricket Australia.
Brett Lee appeared to take Katich’s side over Clarke’s, writing in his autobiography, “If you don’t get on with Katich, you’re a pretty ordinary bloke.”
The left-hander, who once took 6-65 in an innings against Zimbabwe at the MCG, never played for Australia again.
STUART MACGILL
MacGill had an indifferent relationship without Cricket Australia and teammates throughout his career.
Some believe he should have played more cricket alongside Shane Warne but a fast bowling brigade of Glenn McGrath, Jason Gillespie and Brett Lee made justifying another spinner difficult.
In 2004, he was the only Australian cricketer to make himself unavailable for a tour of Zimbabwe on moral grounds. Shortly before he retired a few years later, he refused to appear in a KFC advertisement despite it being a major sponsor of Cricket Australia.
“The problem for me is that KFC and Cricket Australia are hitting parents where they’re vulnerable,” he said.
“Parents are already under a lot of pressure from kids to buy this stuff and when you get the Australian cricket team endorsing it you just increase that pressure. It’s just wrong in so many ways.”
Then in 2015, he sued CA for more than $2.5 million, claiming they failed to pay him injury payments after his retirement in May 2008.
Nevertheless, MacGill took 209 Test wickets at 29.02. In another generation he could have taken even more.
BRAD HODGE
Something didn’t quite sit well with Hodge and the Australian hierarchy.
His 203 not out against South Africa was arguably the innings of the summer. But four innings later (one of which was also a not out), Hodge was shafted from the Test team in favour of the returning Damien Martyn for the tour of South Africa.
He returned in the West Indies in 2008 and made 67 and 27 in two innings but never played again.
Aware that his time in the Baggy Green was up at the age of 35, Hodge retired suddenly after a Shield game against South Australia in December 2009. He continued to play shorter formats of the game and was a member of Australia’s T20 World Cup squad in 2014 at the age of 39.
Nevertheless, it is one of life’s great mysteries why the Victorian did not play more for his country.
He got an explanation of sorts from then-selector David Boon, about a year after being axed for Martyn. Only it was no real explanation at all and only made him feel worse.
“David Boon, it was about a year down the track, it was after (playing for) Australia A. We were in Cairns in the Qantas Club, or somewhere around there, and I sat with him and I just had to ask. I said, ‘Mate, what happened? Why did I actually get dropped?’” Hodge told The Howie Games podcast in 2016.
“‘Was it because I nicked one or was it that ball I should have hooked in Sydney where it was the last ball of the day when I got caught at bat pad?’
“After a while he said, ‘You know what, we just chose Damien Martyn over you’. Simple as that, for no reason, and that probably hurt even more.”
BRAD WILLIAMS
Williams had a brief but eventful international stint.
It was not a smart career move to criticise the selectors choosing Nathan Bracken over him for the opening Test of the 2003/04 summer, “because he’s a left arm bowler,” and it was equally not Williams’ finest moment when, after being dropped from Western Australia’s Shield team two seasons later, he stormed out and withdrew from the ensuing ING Cup match against Tasmania.
This was seen as a breach of his playing contract and WA suspended him for the rest of the season. At the age of 31, his professional cricket career was over.
MATTHEW ELLIOTT
Elliott was largely an unfulfilled talent, having averaged 33.48 from 21 Tests. He was rumoured to have not fitted in among teammates in the dressing room throughout his career, although this was never substantiated.
Nevertheless, Elliott could have and should have played more for Australia. In 2003/04, the left hander amassed 1381 Shield runs, overtaking the record (although Michael Bevan succeeded it the following season).
Cricket Australia rewarded him with a contract and a return to the Test team against Sri Lanka. But he made a duck and one and that was that.
JASON KREZJA
Having taken 12 wickets on Test debut in India, named man of the match in a losing cause, Krezja managed just one more game for Australia.
He holds the record for the most runs conceded on Test debut but also most wickets on Test debut. A bizarre double.
But after taking those 12 scalps in 2008, he was dropped for the next Test! He then returned to face South Africa in Adelaide but injured himself and was replaced by Nathan Hauritz. Finally, the right-arm off-spinner played a Test in Australia but it wasn’t memorable for the right reasons.
Krezja finished with figures of 1-103 and 0-106 as South Africa chased down 414 at the WACA with six wickets in hand.
Like most of the aforementioned players, nobody quite know why Krezja was not given more opportunities for Australia. At the end of the 2012/13 season, having just turned 30 and at a time when he should have been bowling better than ever, Tasmania cut him from their contract list.
DEAN JONES
Much like Brad Hodge, Dean Jones was dropped from the Australia team when he was in his prime.
Behind closed doors, there were murmurings that his forthright personality had put people off-side. His stats were still good, having topped the averages on a recent tour of Sri Lanka when he was omitted ahead of the 1992/93 summer.
His forthright nature made him a fan favourite but he was never short of an opinion to the Australian Cricket Board, as it was then called.
He was also one of Australia’s finest one-day cricketers at a time when the format was booming, averaging 44 across 164 matches.
 

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Thanks for the explanation. My point was the incumbent was overlooked due to form now the replacement has shit the bed as well even though he had shield runs. How long does he get before he spends the shield currency?
If he is replaced with a new opener then where does that leave the selectors ? how often do they change based on shield form?
Renshaw IMO deserved to be given the chance to fail. We should have persisted based on what he achieved in his test career to date.
Do you disagree?
Maybe could have carried him but huge risk. I watched nearly every innings and he wasn’t just not getting runs he was horrible. Throwing his hands and not moving at all.

150 runs and 51 of those came at once. Av 16. That’s hard to carry.

Anderson and Broad went past Ambrose and Walsh’s 762 wickets. I should have said pace though. Warne and McGrath still number 1 with 980.
 

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Hmmm I suppose we can all change our minds
From two months ago.

He’s had another two games since then and still no better. The good will from before the Ashes has been used up when you keep getting 16.

While Burns gets 200.
 
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