Beale VS Gagai

[Rolex]

Hey guys.. Long time lurker here. Every game there is discussion over Beale V Gagai.
Let's settle it once and for all :D
Beale has been the Broncos best back all year. He was in scintillating form when Hoffman was out.
He has been harshly criticized when he has been playing on the wing. Last night showed what he is capable of a winger.
His speed down the touchline was reminiscent of Leon Bott flashing away from Craig Wing in 05.
From all reports he is the quickest at the club and one of the top 5 quickest guys in the NRL. You can't teach speed and this guy has bucket loads of it.
He is also pretty safe at the back. Last night's take in the second half was a beauty.

I admit I have not seen much of Gagai except for the games he has played this year. From the games I have seen I think his talent is overrated. He looks like another guy with a bit of speed that can score when the line is wide open. Also he at least dropped a couple bombs every game.
I had this same discussion with a friend of mine who is a huge Gagai fan who think he is the next superstar.
He always brings up his stats in the Toyota Cup from last year.

Round Two
183m, 2 Try Assists, 12 Tackle Breaks, 2 Line Breaks, 1 Try, 4/6 Goal Kicking

Round Three
272m, 18 Tackle Breaks, 2 Line Breaks, 5/5 Goal Kicking

Round Five
263m, 1 Try Assist, 21 Tackle Breaks, 2 Line Breaks, 1 Try

Round Six
219m, 1 Try Assist, 11 Tackle Breaks


Round Seven
295m, 13 Tackle Breaks, 2 Line Breaks, 1 Try


Round Ten
292m, 8 Tackle Breaks, 3 offloads


Round Twelve
155m, 1 Try Assist, 2 Line Breaks, 2 Tries, 5/6 Goal Kicking


Round Fifteen
215m, 22 Tackle Breaks

Round Twenty-One
243m, 21 Tackle Breaks, 3 Line Breaks, 1 Try

Round Twenty-Three
148m, 9 Tackle Breaks, 1 Line Break, 2 Tries, 7/8 Goal Kicking

Round Twntey-Four
188m, 1 Try Assist, 14 Tackle Breaks, 1 Line Break, 2 Tries


Round Twenty-Six
214m, 12 Tackle Breaks, 1 Line Breaks, 1 Try


But I tell him it's only Toyota Cup which is pretty much touch footy.
If Beale played Toyota Cup his stats would be just as good.
For mine, Beale is the next superstar at the club once Lockyer retires.
All this talk about dropping Beale for an unproven solid Toyota Cup player is getting tiresome and ridiculous.

Thoughts?

 

[Ari Gold]

Gerard Beale has definitely not been our best back this year. And I don't really think comparisons of any sort to Leon Bott actually helps if portraying Beale in a positive light.

Also, both players have only played a handful of games. It's impossible at this stage to settle anything between them "once and for all". At the moment he's done okay overall and has been nice in patches, so deserves to stay in the team for now.

Also, getting chased down by Reece Robinson doesn't really state a great case for being one of the fastest 5 players in the game.

Anyway, welcome to the forum Mrs. Beale.

 

[Rolex]

I was comparing Beale to Bott in terms of speed. Not their footy skills. Beale has done enough to cement his spot in the team. His form was so good he was picked in the NZ squad earlier this year. He is a superstar in the making.

 

[rnabokov]

Beale has everything one needs to be the complete footballer, but particularly balance, poise and fluidity in the way he moves. He reminds me of Renouf in that regard. Outright speed without balance is pointless. His sideline run last night was just class. It's about time he got some quality ball - and that's the key when assessing his abilities.

Gagai will turn out to be a fine winger. Beale has the makings of a champion. To me there is no comparison.

The same for Hofman and Gilett. The Broncos are blessed

 

[Rolex]

I think Beale will eventually make the switch to the 6 if Norman and Hunt fails next year.
He has all the skills to make him one of the best 6 in the game. I can see where you are coming from in regards to the Renouf comparison. He just glides in the air when he runs. He's developing nicely.

 

[m1c]

Beale is certainly the more complete footballer atm. He deserves his place above Gagai in the pecking order. He's got a years development on him, whilst it also helps playing in your favoured position in a strong team (as we were at the beginning of the year). However I don't think there are any doubts that Gagai will turn out to be the superior player. He is one of those rare talents that don't come along too often.

 

[Porthoz]

:eyebrow:

Okay, I'll bite.

Beale was excellent earlier this year when filling in for Hoffman at fullback. It's clearly his best position imo and undoubtedly gave him a leg up in the fight for a place in the backline at the Broncos.

Some people even wanted to retain Beale in the FB spot after Hoffman's recovery, but this didn't eventuate and Hoffman went on to clearly outplay Beale to cement the FB spot.

In the meanwhile, Gagai had mixed performances in his first appearances in top grade. The Cowboys game and the Canberra game in particular left a sour taste and stayed in people's minds so much that he now still has that tag of unreliability under the high ball. He was dropped until Origin came around and put deserving performances in all games he played since imo.

On the wing, here are the stats for both players. Keep in mind that Beale benefitted from a nearly full strenght Broncos side in all his winger cameos, while Gagai played in the "baby Broncos" each time except for the first 2 games of the season...

For 5 games as a winger, Beale has scored no tries, and his averages per game are:
Linebreaks: 0.4
Errors: 1.4
Tackles: 2.8
Missed Tackles: 0.6
Tackle Breaks: 2
Runs: 13.6
Metres: 131.8

For 6 games, Gagai scored 4 tries (0.67), and his averages per game are:
Linebreaks: 0.5
Errors: 0.6
Tackles: 5.3
Missed Tackles: 1.3
Tackle Breaks: 3.8
Runs: 12.7
Metres: 113.8

So, contrary to the general belief, Gagai makes less than half the amount of Beale's errors and breaks tackles twice as often, besides scoring tries. They average the same amount of missed tackles per tackle attempt, and Beale runs 0.7 meters more per run

If we want to compare all the games Beale played... For 19 games he scored 7 tries (0.37), and his averages per game were:
Linebreaks: 0.37
Errors: 0.95
Tackles: 6.9 (benefitting from his 6 games at centre)
Missed tackles: 1.8
Tackle breaks: 2.4
Runs: 13.3
Metres: 122.58

From a pure statistic point of view, Gagai has the edge over Beale, although not by a great margin.
Btw, Gagai's stats are very similar to Yow Yeh's.

What's left is the impression each of them made with the fans, and these are clearly divided.

For me, despite being a rookie and having played in mostly inexperienced teams, Gagai is the better player. This doesn't make Beale a nuffie, as he is also a very good back, just not as good IMO...

 

[Jeba]

Btw, Gagai's stats are very similar to Yow Yeh's.

Well Yow Yeh has clearly performed a lot better than Gagai this season, which leads me to believe that these stats are somewhat pointless.

 

[Coxy]

Well Yow Yeh has clearly performed a lot better than Gagai this season, which leads me to believe that these stats are somewhat pointless.

Bam.

The obsession people have with stats is staggering.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I am happy with whatever Griffin thinks is best for the side. Both Gagai and Beale will be terrific players for the club.

 

[rnabokov]

What's the basis, the factual basis, for asserting Gagai is the more talented (NRL) player, at this moment?

 

[Big Pete]

Look I think at this stage the point is probably moot since we're only a few weeks out from the finals and I can't see Hook making any unforced changes and he seems to have more confidence in Beale and even Copley than Gagai. I suppose there is a reason too as Gagai does have a brain explosion in him and he's fairly poor out of dummy half.

However, Gagai has impressed me more than Beale ever has on the wing in first grade. He scored that match equalizer against the Storm out of basically nothing and that performance against Parramatta included some plays that would even make Uate jealous. The only area of Beale's game that I have been impressed with on the wing, is his dummy half runs. The rest he's a bit of a non-entity, although I will concede the break he made on Friday WAS promising, until he decided to take on the fullback when he gave himself virtually no room.

 

[Charmamba]

What's the basis, the factual basis, for asserting Gagai is the more talented (NRL) player, at this moment?

Wet dreams.

 

[Porthoz]

Bam.

The obsession people have with stats is staggering.

No obsession at all, since I don't see stats as the be all end all. The fact I mentioned Yow Yeh's stats demonstrates that!
They are the only objective method of comparison really, but do not measure talent, speed, decision making or influence of a player. Which is why Yow Yeh's superiority is not reflected in the stats.
What they do demonstrate is that Gagai isn't the error riddled player that some accuse him to be, and that he is able to perform similar stats to Beale despite playing in a weakened team most of the time.

When it comes to the more subjective evaluation, the post above from Big Pete reflects exactly my thoughts.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Beale is just one of those underrated players a bit like Boyd was at the broncos... Gagai will develop in to a star if he wants to be one. Reminds of slater tbh

 

[Porthoz]

What's the basis, the factual basis, for asserting Gagai is the more talented (NRL) player, at this moment?

How do you measure talent?

It will always be a subjective measure, based on each individual's preferences and opinion.
I haven't had much of a chance this year, but I've seen both players play in the Toyota cup many times in previous years, which gives me a more solid base to argue.

For me, Gagai always looks more threatning with the ball in hand and is the better finisher. I also believe he's faster than Beale.

The problem with all of this is that people interpret my preference for Gagai as a dislike or bagging of Beale, and it isn't. I very much want both players at the club, because Beale is a very good back too.
It's like having Gasnier and Inglis as centres with Hodges on the sideline, despite being a better player (IMO) than Gasnier.

 

[Big Pete]

In the future I can see Gerard Beale taking Reed's centre position and Gagai forcing his way onto the wing.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Although I will concede the break he made on Friday WAS promising, until he decided to take on the fullback when he gave himself virtually no room.

Funny thing with this comment in a game situation like this where his inside man put him into an attacking position is that if he didn't back himself in this instance to try to beat the fullback there would be his critics screaming why he didn't back himself.