Broncos Junior Development

[BroncsFan]

Was originally going to put this in the rumours thread, but thought it might be worthwhile having its own discussion rather than hijacking another thread.

I know there are different circumstances across the board but who's at fault for the loss of all these juniors and what appears to be a lack of broncos 20's coming through to first grade.

- Is the 2008 crop too strong to unseat??
- Has junior development and recruitment picked a poor bunch??
- Are the juniors not seeing a clear pathway into the broncos 17??
- Are teams just paying overs to take our players (jwall, jnik, etc.)??

I think it would be interesting to see how many juniors since the 2008 crop have made a genuine fist of first grade at broncos and how many have moved abroad and become regular starters??

To me it would seem they are not seeing a pathway to regular play time and have moved on because it's their career at risk. Examples

Arrow
Joffa (potentially)
Taylor
Copley
Jordan Drew
Hipgrave
J Wallace (although was offered overs)
Jnik (again offered overs)

There are plenty of others who had the potential but have been lost or not come to grade.

Broncos used to be based on junior development, but that seems to be changing for whatever reason and I for one want to know why.

 

[Sproj]

This is amazing, I was thinking of starting a thread just like this but you have worded it much better than I could have.

Why are so many fantastic Qld players being missed on their way up through the grades?

How did our scouts miss all of:

Thurston (Was in the Clydesdales town for crying out loud!!!)
Smith
Slater
Kaufusi
DCE
Folau
Milford
Papalii
Holmes
Napa
Marshall
Hess
Croft

Cronk I can understand as it was pure determination that got him to where he is but how have we missed so much other talent?

Why have we given up so many promising youngsters?
Why is Wayne not giving the kids a chance and buying in already established players?
Why does he persist with hacks like Moga and Mead (in Broncos colours thus far) instead of giving any of the youngsters an extended shot?

If they aren't being given opportunities, no wonder they feel like they have to look elsewhere.

 

[Allo]

They all feed into each other. We still ID good juniors (but could be far better), have developed them to the point where they can't be taken out of the 17 (coupled with stubbornness at the selection table), leading the next crop to not see a pathway and leave, either for more cash and/or a starting spot. Rinse and repeat

@Sproj , didn't one of our scouts leave for the Storm around the time they'd be seeing 13-16yo Munster, Croft, Smith 2.0 etc?

 

[Sproj]

They all feed into each other. We still ID good juniors (but could be far better), have developed them to the point where they can't be taken out of the 17 (coupled with stubbornness at the selection table), leading the next crop to not see a pathway and leave, either for more cash and/or a starting spot. Rinse and repeat

@Sproj , didn't one of our scouts leave for the Storm around the time they'd be seeing 13-16yo Munster, Croft, Smith 2.0 etc?

I think so and since then, we've been constantly getting what seems to be the seconds that are left over from the Storm system and it annoys me so much. We are the Broncos, we should be getting the best, not whatever is left.

If it comes down to picking between Munster and Hoffman (obviously it didn't) and Milford and KNik, I mean surely you can see the raw talent in these guys.

 

[mitch222]

I get that people get angry when we lose players but lets get back to reality. Arrows path to first grade at lock is currently blocked by the QLD origin lock Josh McGuire. McGuire isn't going anywhere any time soon so there is no point stick around behind rep players for your whole career. If you are given a shot at a first grade spot and a decent pay to match it then I don't blame you for taking it which is what these kids do. You can only put 17 onto the paddock every week and lets be honest here, we overinflate a lot of our juniors when we look purely at **** they slaughtered the 20s, they will be an aussie rep next year. Matt Mundine slaughtered the 20s and where the **** is he these days? Just because your good in the juniors it doesn't necessary equate to first grade.

 

[_noosh]

I am not knowledgeable on the subject but for the juniors that have been poached from us, if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it would be a combination of no clear and consistent path to the 17, and other clubs being able to table more money. I'd say that previously if there was a rival club offering more money, the difference may not have been large enough to convince them to uproot and move elsewhere. Now, with more money in play, the difference is a lot more tempting and with no guarantees in their future here, it's a very reasonable choice to take the offer while it's available.

 

[BroncsFan]

I get that people get angry when we lose players but lets get back to reality. Arrows path to first grade at lock is currently blocked by the QLD origin lock Josh McGuire. McGuire isn't going anywhere any time soon so there is no point stick around behind rep players for your whole career. If you are given a shot at a first grade spot and a decent pay to match it then I don't blame you for taking it which is what these kids do. You can only put 17 onto the paddock every week and lets be honest here, we overinflate a lot of our juniors when we look purely at **** they slaughtered the 20s, they will be an aussie rep next year. Matt Mundine slaughtered the 20s and where the **** is he these days? Just because your good in the juniors it doesn't necessary equate to first grade.

I get that but using Arrow as an example... was there not a clear pathway before making McGuire our lock??

Arrow's pathway wasn't blocked by McGuire it has effectively been blocked by Sims, Ese, Blair and potentially Lodge. None of those guys are out and out 80min locks, but we have moved McGuire to fit them in as props.

I name those guys as they were all bought not bred and of them we're basically resigned to losing Ese, Blair is getting older, we haven't even signed Lodge and Sims is struggling to hold down a first grade spot.

Arrow had for years been earmarked as Parker's replacement but now all of a sudden we're happy to ditch him for those guys.

Broncos recruitment was based on junior development and it helped us to build great squads via loyalty and senior guys taking cuts. Does anyone see Bird taking cuts in 4yrs?? Even Jet he was bought and now he wants overs to stay.

Arrow stuck around and has now been shafted by guys who are no guarantee of being here in 2 years let alone 10!!

 

[Nashy]

I wonder how much of it had to do with old Cyril passing on.

 

[Sproj]

This is a side based on Qlders in other sides we should have got and players we've lost and in Inglis's case pure incompetence.

1. Slater
2. Holmes
3. Inglis
4. Folau
5. Winterstein
6. Norman
7. Taylor
8. Wallace
9. Smith
10. Napa
11. Papalii
12. Teo
13. Arrow

14. JNik
15. Ese'ese
16. Kaufusi
17. Taylor

I mean obviously you can't keep them all but there is a lot of talent there (and some not included) that our scouts either missed, overlooked or we lost to accommodate players being bought in.

 

[Renegade]

This is a side based on Qlders in other sides we should have got and players we've lost and in Inglis's case pure incompetence.

1. Slater
2. Holmes
3. Inglis
4. Folau
5. Winterstein
6. Norman
7. Taylor
8. Wallace
9. Smith
10. Napa
11. Papalii
12. Teo
13. Arrow

14. JNik
15. Ese'ese
16. Kaufusi
17. Taylor

I mean obviously you can't keep them all but there is a lot of talent there (and some not included) that our scouts either missed, overlooked or we lost to accommodate players being bought in.

This is just arrogance, these players played or lived somewhere in SEQ ergo they should be playing for the Broncos.

 

[winslow_wong]

How many of those juniors we missed out on were guns in the lower grades? And how many like Thurston took some time to find their way? Maybe broncos were a bit superficial when scouting juniors and picked the ones that were stars in high school.

 

[Super Freak]

For a few of those players, I don't blame the Broncos for saying no.

I heard Slater approached the Broncos and wanted to play 5/8, we had one.

Smith was apparently very lazy back then (his words) and we had Priddis. Smith didn't want to wait around to play first grade which is why he said no to Bennett when he tried to sign him.

Kaufusi, he didn't start showing his potential until he was at Melbourne.

 

[GCBRONCO]

I wonder how much of it had to do with old Cyril passing on.

Cyril was a huge factor for the Broncos recruitment, he really went above the distance then just identifying talent on the field(which IMO can be so hit and miss so early). He did it by getting to know the youngsters off the field, offering them advice and he even identified talent that Bennett wasn't so confident about. I also remember reading in I think Webcke's book that the Broncos were actually scouting Steve Price but the Bulldogs and several other sydney teams were preparing to get into a bidding war for him. Webcke wasn't being chased so heavily and I think Cyril introduced him to Wayne and he ended up with a Broncos contract.

 

[Jason Simmons]

I get that but using Arrow as an example... was there not a clear pathway before making McGuire our lock??

Arrow's pathway wasn't blocked by McGuire it has effectively been blocked by Sims, Ese, Blair and potentially Lodge. None of those guys are out and out 80min locks, but we have moved McGuire to fit them in as props.

I name those guys as they were all bought not bred and of them we're basically resigned to losing Ese, Blair is getting older, we haven't even signed Lodge and Sims is struggling to hold down a first grade spot.

Arrow had for years been earmarked as Parker's replacement but now all of a sudden we're happy to ditch him for those guys.

Broncos recruitment was based on junior development and it helped us to build great squads via loyalty and senior guys taking cuts. Does anyone see Bird taking cuts in 4yrs?? Even Jet he was bought and now he wants overs to stay.

Arrow stuck around and has now been shafted by guys who are no guarantee of being here in 2 years let alone 10!!

Yes but what has Arrow ever done in his A grade stints? He has played 18 first grade games for us and I would be hard pressed to name something he has done. Did anyone doubt McGuire would be a star at 18 games or Parker for that matter?

He just hasn't impressed like those blokes and neither really have many of our 'junior stars' in recent years. They may be solid, but everyone expects Broncos jersey wearers to be stars, when most of the current ones never will be.

 

[Jason Simmons]

For a few of those players, I don't blame the Broncos for saying no.

I heard Slater approached the Broncos and wanted to play 5/8, we had one.

Smith was apparently very lazy back then (his words) and we had Priddis. Smith didn't want to wait around to play first grade which is why he said no to Bennett when he tried to sign him.

Kaufusi, he didn't start showing his potential until he was at Melbourne.

We had Priddis at the end of his career and he played what? Maybe one more season?

 

[Super Freak]

We had Priddis at the end of his career and he played what? Maybe one more season?

He was 22 when he signed with us. We had him for two more seasons.

I don't think anyone would have predicted him leaving the club at the time.

 

[Alec]

Its disappointing seeing Storm produce gun juniors and we let them all go

 

[winslow_wong]

Its disappointing seeing Storm produce gun juniors and we let them all go

I know right... what juniors have we got that would make origin as early as Munster has?