Did the Sharks peak too early?

[Sproj]

This is why I don't think the grand final will ever be a success in Brisbane. QLDers don't care or bother about games that don't involve QLD teams.

Not at all. Of the three teams left, I'd most prefer Canberra wins but it is a case of which team do you hate least? The Storm have a history of salary cap cheating and the Sharks shouldn't even be contending this year due to suspensions. Canberra has a whinged of a coach but at least they are good to watch.

 

[broncos4life]

This is why I don't think the grand final will ever be a success in Brisbane. QLDers don't care or bother about games that don't involve QLD teams.

You base this on one comment on a forum? Having gone to the Grand Final last year I can tell you there weren't a great deal of Sydney residents there.

 

[Mr Fourex]

I won't be watching the gf, just don't care who wins.

I'll be watching if only to see the tears of sadness run down Paul Gallen's face when the Sharks lose.

:laugh:

 

[Huge]

If the team is drug free now and have been all year, how are they drug cheats ? Oh that's right...it's because someone took some recovery peptides 5 years ago....pure fuckhead logic. Hope Cronulla belt the Storm and I think they will, Hollywood storyline fifty years in the making....go the Sharks

 

[Cult]

If the team is drug free now and have been all year, how are they drug cheats ? Oh that's right...it's because someone took some recovery peptides 5 years ago....pure fuckhead logic. Hope Cronulla belt the Storm and I think they will, Hollywood storyline fifty years in the making....go the Sharks

"If someone threw one punch and killed someone 4 years ago and hasn't done it since, how are they a murderer"- Andrew Fifita, probably..

 

[Huge]

Okay, even though equating unknowingly ingesting a recovery peptide with murder is ludicrous, how long is it appropriate to hold a grudge ? A lad of sixteen fails a drug test and then goes onto a 20 year track and field career, is it still okay to call him a drug cheat when he is 36 and never made another mistake during that 20 year career ?
The other point I'd make is that calling the Sharks drug cheats when they are obviously not is slanderous and banned on this site. The most you can say is that 5 years ago a couple of current players admitted to unknowingly taking banned substances. The current team is 100% drug free according to the latest test results and therefore not drug cheats.
The overwhelming majority of the current team have no drug stain and deserve a shot at the title and have done better than us with half the advantages,facilities and support we enjoy.
I understand hating on Gallen and Fifita but I will never understand or support that being lumped on innocent parties. That's the sort of thing religious fanatics do

 

[Foordy]

Okay, even though equating unknowingly ingesting a recovery peptide with murder is ludicrous, how long is it appropriate to hold a grudge ? A lad of sixteen fails a drug test and then goes onto a 20 year track and field career, is it still okay to call him a drug cheat when he is 36 and never made another mistake during that 20 year career ?
The other point I'd make is that calling the Sharks drug cheats when they are obviously not is slanderous and banned on this site. The most you can say is that 5 years ago a couple of current players admitted to unknowingly taking banned substances. The current team is 100% drug free according to the latest test results and therefore not drug cheats.
The overwhelming majority of the current team have no drug stain and deserve a shot at the title and have done better than us with half the advantages,facilities and support we enjoy.
I understand hating on Gallen and Fifita but I will never understand or support that being lumped on innocent parties. That's the sort of thing religious fanatics do

They plead guilty to taking performance enhancing drugs.... therefore they are admitted drug cheats.

And even if they players were too stupid to know something was not right about what they were doing .... their coach certainly knew exactly whst was going on.

 

[Huge]

I must admit there are times when I envy you Foordy. Everything in black and white, no shades of grey, nice simple thoughts. Also admirable is the certainty and clarity which accompanies knowing you are right at all times. Not for you long and deep thinking,you're so quick decisive and unequivocal. First thing that pops in to your head, bang, that's it, all figured out.

Unfortunately for me I'm not that type. I have to think things through, consider all the facts and after taking my time, draw the best conclusion from all the available evidence.

Laudable too is the way you state the obvious while omitting the details like ,it happened years ago, virtually none of the players involved are currently members of the squad or that the squad which made the grand final is totally drug free.

I love the way you claim ,without a shred of evidence that Flanagan was complicit, happily slandering any and all.

I imagine if your brother or sister, father or any close friend or relative was to blow .06 they would be known as, you would introduce them as, would like them referred to as, this is my brother (whatever ) Tony, drunk driver, even ten years after it happened. That's the kind of brain you have.

 

[Foordy]

I must admit there are times when I envy you Foordy. Everything in black and white, no shades of grey, nice simple thoughts. Also admirable is the certainty and clarity which accompanies knowing you are right at all times. Not for you long and deep thinking,you're so quick decisive and unequivocal. First thing that pops in to your head, bang, that's it, all figured out.

Unfortunately for me I'm not that type. I have to think things through, consider all the facts and after taking my time, draw the best conclusion from all the available evidence.

Laudable too is the way you state the obvious while omitting the details like ,it happened years ago, virtually none of the players involved are currently members of the squad or that the squad which made the grand final is totally drug free.

I love the way you claim ,without a shred of evidence that Flanagan was complicit, happily slandering any and all.

I imagine if your brother or sister, father or any close friend or relative was to blow .06 they would be known as, you would introduce them as, would like them referred to as, this is my brother (whatever ) Tony, drunk driver, even ten years after it happened. That's the kind of brain you have.

Fine have it your way ...

The entire Sharks organization are innocent and it was all that evil Danks fault.

The head coach who hired him had absolutely no idea what he was up to.

The players were to naive to know that something was dodgy despite these injections being given off site snd the players had instructions not to tell anyone.

Gallen had no idea that pleading guilty was an admission of guilt.

Does that make you happy...

FTR, i would love to see the Sharks win a title, but not while Gallen or Flannagan are involved with the club.

P.s. Flannagan has to show me that trick he used to negotiate a new contract while suspended when he wasn't permitted to have any direct or indirect contact with the club.

 

[Kimlo]

Huge, I think the main reason people are upset with Cronulla making the grand final, isn't that they're self-admitted drug cheats. It's the fact that the punishment was non-existent, having a backdated suspension (with zero real world NRL impact - no missed games), while for as long as I can remember, the standard for PEDs has been a 2 year world-wide sporting ban. Such as what Dell had to face, people never went on about him being a drug cheat, because he served his time.

It's the reason I was furious about the Storm, their only punishment for cheating the cap continuously over 5 years, was no points for the year they were over the cap, in which they had an illegally formed team by competition standards anyway. What should have been a fair punishment is a reduced cap for the following 5 years equivalent to their rorting.

Let me make one thing clear though, I absolutely hope the Sharks win. There's no team I despise more than the Storm, even though Gallen, who should be serving a 2 year sentence, should not be there.

Sanctions - Violations List | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA Take a look at that list
Martin Kennedy | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA
Sandor Earl | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA

Not a single person on the current sanction list has escaped with less than a 2 year punishment, not one.

 

[Renegade]

i was confident on this first page they hadn't peaked were just having a slip.

Now I'm really hoping they win it. I desperately wanted a sharks raiders final so I could sit back completely as a neutral and watch it, now I want Melb to lose so I'm no longer neutral. :@

 

[Huge]

Fine, people can be upset with the governing bodies who are the ones making the decisions but how can they blame those decisions on innocent players of five years later !,,,!

It doesn't take Einstein to work out that in the Sharks case there existed exceptional circumstances, there is really no other obvious explanation as to why the NRL handed down such a decision and ASADA accepting that decision. We the public don't know all the facts and as we are told repeatedly, we should accept the umpires decision and move on.

As for mandatory sentencing (which is essentially what you mean by the two year quotes) most would agree that it is a deeply flawed concept.

I'm amazed that people struggle to understand that the sheer number of players across two codes and teams doesn't scream out that the clubs were duped by the smooth operator Dank. It seems obvious to me that both the Sharks and Essendon were hoodwinked and perhaps a bit naively led at an administrative level resulting in the fiasco we had.

I don't think that any player at the clubs really believed they ,under the clubs doctors and administration, thought that what they were doing was illegal and as for Foordys assertion that being told to not speak about internal matters was a clear admission of guilt, I must be guilty as well of something as it is standard practice where I work.

 

[Cult]

Do you also believe that Shane Warne's mum gave him those pills back in the day?

 

[Porthoz]

Huge, I think the main reason people are upset with Cronulla making the grand final, isn't that they're self-admitted drug cheats. It's the fact that the punishment was non-existent, having a backdated suspension (with zero real world NRL impact - no missed games), while for as long as I can remember, the standard for PEDs has been a 2 year world-wide sporting ban. Such as what Dell had to face, people never went on about him being a drug cheat, because he served his time.

It's the reason I was furious about the Storm, their only punishment for cheating the cap continuously over 5 years, was no points for the year they were over the cap, in which they had an illegally formed team by competition standards anyway. What should have been a fair punishment is a reduced cap for the following 5 years equivalent to their rorting.

Let me make one thing clear though, I absolutely hope the Sharks win. There's no team I despise more than the Storm, even though Gallen, who should be serving a 2 year sentence, should not be there.

Sanctions - Violations List | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA Take a look at that list
Martin Kennedy | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA
Sandor Earl | Australian Sports Anti-doping Authority - ASADA

Not a single person on the current sanction list has escaped with less than a 2 year punishment, not one.

The Melbourne Storm were stripped of 2 premierships, had to lose a number of players (including Inglis) and accrued the biggest fine in the game's history, besides having to play for pride in the season the rort came to light. May not satisfy your deep hatred of the team, but it's certainly much fairer than the Sharks non-existent punishment.

Besides my deep dislike of Gallen and Fifita, the Sharks players laughable punishments, the fact that the club suffered ZERO consequences, and the coach (who was well aware of the PED program) was able to just re-negotiate a contract, is what grinds me most, even taking into account the bullshit ignorance excuses, which I will never buy.

The NRL was at their weakest ever when they handed those "punishments", essentially telling the world that using PED's is kinda ok in the NRL. Even worse, the only players who were honest with them, were the ones that copped the full 2 year mandatory ban.

The Storm have paid the price, the Sharks have not... so **** the Sharks and their drug cheat captain and coach. Go the Storm!

 

[Kimlo]

The Melbourne Storm were stripped of 2 premierships, had to lose a number of players (including Inglis) and accrued the biggest fine in the game's history, besides having to play for pride in the season the rort came to light. May not satisfy your deep hatred of the team, but it's certainly much fairer than the Sharks non-existent punishment.

• The Melbourne Storm were stripped of 2 - Because they were achieved with an illegal team, they were never deserved. If we had no salary cap in that time, we could have potentially won premierships too. Heck their 2008 team that put us to sleep in the dying seconds, the game winning try was from a player who left as soon as the rorting was discovered, they were 900k over, enough to keep Inglis around. That's direct influence over the result from an illegal team.
• Had to lose a number of players (including Inglis) - Because they were illegal in the first place, how is this punishment exactly? If I go steal a new car, and the punishment is having to give the car back, is that now a "punishment"? Or if I have win a race by using an illegal advantage, and then the title is stripped, is that actually punishment?
• Accrued the biggest fine in the game's history - Firstly, who cares? News LTD pay that, that's not a punishment for the coaching staff or players, or administration, in fact the only fall boy out of all of it is Brian Waldron. If you're convinced Flanagan knew of the cheating, then I'm absolutely convinced Bellamy knew as well, as did the players, even more so than players being aware of the substance they're taking as illegal.
• Having to play for pride in the season the rort came to light - So? Once again, they had an illegal team, they had no right to compete until that was rectified, and since they were over the cap

So realistically, the only actual "punishment" was a million dollar fine. For screwing over the game for 5 whole years, denying other teams the chance to fairly compete under the Salary cap. If we could keep all our star players by cheating the cap, maybe we would have won a competition or two in that time, who knows? The Storm denied other legitimate contenders the chance to reap the rewards of their hard work.

For me, a player taking PED's doesn't make them much better. The advantage of taking PEDs is nothing like being able to have 1-2 extra great players in the team. Cheating the salary cap is HUGE advantage, for the last 3 years of their rorts, they were over the cap by a million dollars, that's enough to give an extra 250k to the "big 4" to keep them all together, which they all were when they won those premierships. They went to 4 consecutive grand finals while cheating the cap, they certainly haven't managed that with a legal team.

So yeah, um... Go the... Just lose Melbourne.

 

[Porthoz]

• The Melbourne Storm were stripped of 2 - Because they were achieved with an illegal team, they were never deserved. If we had no salary cap in that time, we could have potentially won premierships too. Heck their 2008 team that put us to sleep in the dying seconds, the game winning try was from a player who left as soon as the rorting was discovered, they were 900k over, enough to keep Inglis around. That's direct influence over the result from an illegal team.
• Had to lose a number of players (including Inglis) - Because they were illegal in the first place, how is this punishment exactly? If I go steal a new car, and the punishment is having to give the car back, is that now a "punishment"? Or if I have win a race by using an illegal advantage, and then the title is stripped, is that actually punishment?
• Accrued the biggest fine in the game's history - Firstly, who cares? News LTD pay that, that's not a punishment for the coaching staff or players, or administration, in fact the only fall boy out of all of it is Brian Waldron. If you're convinced Flanagan knew of the cheating, then I'm absolutely convinced Bellamy knew as well, as did the players, even more so than players being aware of the substance they're taking as illegal.
• Having to play for pride in the season the rort came to light - So? Once again, they had an illegal team, they had no right to compete until that was rectified, and since they were over the cap

So realistically, the only actual "punishment" was a million dollar fine. For screwing over the game for 5 whole years, denying other teams the chance to fairly compete under the Salary cap. If we could keep all our star players by cheating the cap, maybe we would have won a competition or two in that time, who knows? The Storm denied other legitimate contenders the chance to reap the rewards of their hard work.

For me, a player taking PED's doesn't make them much better. The advantage of taking PEDs is nothing like being able to have 1-2 extra great players in the team. Cheating the salary cap is HUGE advantage, for the last 3 years of their rorts, they were over the cap by a million dollars, that's enough to give an extra 250k to the "big 4" to keep them all together, which they all were when they won those premierships. They went to 4 consecutive grand finals while cheating the cap, they certainly haven't managed that with a legal team.

So yeah, um... Go the... Just lose Melbourne.

What the actual ****?
Melbourne lost everything they won while rorting the cap, and were shamed for it! All their achievements during that period are tainted, and they have NOTHING to show for it.

Being on PEDs is nothing like have a couple of extra players (which they developed in the first place)? Which planet are you on?
The Sharks are getting a pass because there weren't capable of winning anything while cheating, and didn't happen to knock the Broncos off the finals... is that it?

 

[Nashy]

**** the drug cheats. Up you mighty cap cheats.

 

[Sproj]

**** the drug cheats. Up you mighty cap cheats.

It's just an absolute sham this season, what a waste of a year. Who cares who wins because it means nothing, the AFL will have a field day with this disgrace of a comp. I really hope the game is decided by blatant referee cheating because it would sum up the year perfectly.