HIA stats

[Number6]

Wondering if anyone has or knows where to get stats of head injury assessments, outcomes and concussion related weeks off?

Wondering how often happens and who seems to be gaming it the most.

Didn't see a big 'hit' on Gallen tonight although might have missed it, but IIRC not his first conveniently timed rest.

Stated before but an independent on field doctor, mandatory post game neurologist review +\- MRI, 5 or so hours of neuropsychology tests and minimum time off for repeated possible injuries and incident audit of each head injury with transparent results (without medical info) not only safe guards players and limits liability for NRL but disincentivises gaming at least a bit.

 

[Battler]

I reckon if two people go off for a HIA and return in the (same) match the next should automatically count as an interchange.

 

[Sproj]

The Storm have done it the most.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Very good thread idea. Why this isn't getting picked up by the commentators or media puzzles me. The players getting HIA 90% of times are forwards (yes they take more hit ups but not twice as many with head knocks), this means they get a free 10-15 minute interchange, effectively making the whole point of 6 interchanges null and void. 2015 the 2 fastest teams made the gf with wrestling wasting too much energy. Now the storm (and some other teams) have basically cheated (again) to get extra interchanges. The other point is halfbacks or fullback from these same teams that their forwards are "head knock-prone" amazingly never seem to need a HIA, even after clearly getting hit hard in the head and feeling it

 

[Super Freak]

The current HIA system is one of the biggest farces in the game.

Dugan could get hit and lay motionless on the ground, but he gets cleared and stays on the field instead of going off for a HIA.

JWH clashes heads with Cordner while they are making a tackle, JWH gets up and looks completely fine. He goes off for a HIA.

But nothing is done about Dugan staying on despite the NRL coming out at the start of the year when Elliott was knocked out against the Rabbitohs, saying that if a player cops a head knock and lays motionless on the ground, they must go off. It's not even an option, they must go off. But they don't, and the NRL do absolutely nothing about it.

The NRL are actually leaving themselves open for a lawsuit.

 

[Number6]

Wondering if anyone has or knows where to get stats of head injury assessments, outcomes and concussion related weeks off?

Wondering how often happens and who seems to be gaming it the most.

Didn't see a big 'hit' on Gallen tonight although might have missed it, but IIRC not his first conveniently timed rest.

Stated before but an independent on field doctor, mandatory post game neurologist review +\- MRI, 5 or so hours of neuropsychology tests and minimum time off for repeated possible injuries and incident audit of each head injury with transparent results (without medical info) not only safe guards players and limits liability for NRL but disincentivises gaming at least a bit.

Also think players and coaches/trainers should have to sign as part of contract with NRL using HIA only for genuine concern. It is after all cheating that undermines integrity of a very important player safety initiative. If someone ends up being caught out planning or executing tactical use then full season ban with no pay for everyone involved and team loses game points. Most people will lie and have to give a lot of benefit of doubt but enough of these guys stupid or drunk enough with loose lips that someone will get caught out sooner rather than later. If origin or finals triple penalties. Offer deals to people who cooperate especially if coercion on a young player.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

The problem is the ridiculous decision to allow clubs to use their own doctors. The argument that they know the players normal behaviour so they can judge whether they are ok is laughable! Also, to simply say "they are doctors, they will be impartial" is a joke. Doctors are people, if they face "pressure" from an employer their judgement will be affected like any other person..

What should happen is a panel of doctors to judge. A doctor from each team playing and an nrl/independent doctor. 2/3 have to say yes/no for it to happen/not happen

 

[Nashy]

The current HIA system is one of the biggest farces in the game.

Dugan could get hit and lay motionless on the ground, but he gets cleared and stays on the field instead of going off for a HIA.

JWH clashes heads with Cordner while they are making a tackle, JWH gets up and looks completely fine. He goes off for a HIA.

But nothing is done about Dugan staying on despite the NRL coming out at the start of the year when Elliott was knocked out against the Rabbitohs, saying that if a player cops a head knock and lays motionless on the ground, they must go off. It's not even an option, they must go off. But they don't, and the NRL do absolutely nothing about it.

The NRL are actually leaving themselves open for a lawsuit.

And even if they lost it, the brainless idiots would still be completely and utterly oblivious.

They've probably already discussed this very issue, many times. Like, it would be impossible to not have a discussion about Morgan going down for two heavy headknocks in a row, and still doesn't miss any games? That's a load of rubbish, and it's only because the Cowboys are buggered with injuries.

But, the entertainment factor for the NRL comes above playing to the rules, having officials to push those rules, and making sure the players are safe.

 

[johnny plath]

The problem is the ridiculous decision to allow clubs to use their own doctors. The argument that they know the players normal behaviour so they can judge whether they are ok is laughable! Also, to simply say "they are doctors, they will be impartial" is a joke. Doctors are people, if they face "pressure" from an employer their judgement will be affected like any other person..

What should happen is a panel of doctors to judge. A doctor from each team playing and an nrl/independent doctor. 2/3 have to say yes/no for it to happen/not happen

I don't know whether or not independent doctors makes a difference, but I don't see why if a player leaves for a hia but is cleared it then it should still count as an interchange.. I feel like from a game perspective thats more of a problem than whether a player stays on. I didn't want to add to the whinge about our game on Thursday night, but FMD how many Parra players went off for a HIA but then came back on. It does make a joke of the interchange bench. Its no different to coming off with some other injury, get treatment then back on the field, thats an interchange... if you fail the onfield test you're injured and need to come off - if you make it back all good, but thats an interchange. Also what happend to the protocol where if you're motionless you are off regardless of passing on field test or not.. that ones disappeared. It seems like the easist area for a coach to manipulate extra interchanges so penalties need to be harsh for any manipulation.

 

[Morkel]

I don't know whether or not independent doctors makes a difference, but I don't see why if a player leaves for a hia but is cleared it then it should still count as an interchange.. I feel like from a game perspective thats more of a problem than whether a player stays on. I didn't want to add to the whinge about our game on Thursday night, but FMD how many Parra players went off for a HIA but then came back on. It does make a joke of the interchange bench. Its no different to coming off with some other injury, get treatment then back on the field, thats an interchange... if you fail the onfield test you're injured and need to come off - if you make it back all good, but thats an interchange. Also what happend to the protocol where if you're motionless you are off regardless of passing on field test or not.. that ones disappeared. It seems like the easist area for a coach to manipulate extra interchanges so penalties need to be harsh for any manipulation.

They made the rule so that players would be encouraged to get themselves checked out off the field instead of remain on the field. But agree, it's a rort. If the doctors are doing their job, they'd take the players off the field if there were any signs of concussion - regardless of whether the interchange is free or not.

 

[Nashy]

They made the rule so that players would be encouraged to get themselves checked out off the field instead of remain on the field. But agree, it's a rort. If the doctors are doing their job, they'd take the players off the field if there were any signs of concussion - regardless of whether the interchange is free or not.

That's why team doctors, and trainers, shouldn't be making the calls.

 

[Super Freak]

Every time I see this brought on shows like the Matty Johns show, NRL 360 etc, I keep hearing the same rubbish line in defence of club doctors.

"The club doctors know the players personality so they are best qualified to know whether a player is concussed."

It's a bullshit argument. An independent doctor will be able to tell if a player is suffering from concussion.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

The Storm have done it the most.

Why does that not surprise me

 

[Number6]

Every time I see this brought on shows like the Matty Johns show, NRL 360 etc, I keep hearing the same rubbish line in defence of club doctors.

"The club doctors know the players personality so they are best qualified to know whether a player is concussed."

It's a bullshit argument. An independent doctor will be able to tell if a player is suffering from concussion.

Club doctor will know player better which does help a lot but the doctor is in a conflict of interest. Employed and paid by club not player or Medicare. Puts them in very awkward position whether they do it consciously or otherwise. Opens doctor, club and NRL up to litigation by structuring it that way. Independent doctor can also do baselines on top players if that is the concern. Especially big stars for rep or grand final games can do a pre game review.

 

[mrslong]

The worst one for me was when Andrew Fifita hurt his ankle in Game 1 Origin this year and went off with a HIA. Free interchange and their forwards were able to run amok - he came back on 15 minutes later and continued to tear us apart.

 

[Morkel]

Club doctor will know player better which does help a lot but the doctor is in a conflict of interest. Employed and paid by club not player or Medicare. Puts them in very awkward position whether they do it consciously or otherwise. Opens doctor, club and NRL up to litigation by structuring it that way. Independent doctor can also do baselines on top players if that is the concern. Especially big stars for rep or grand final games can do a pre game review.

It'd be easy to convince the doctors to take the player off due to HIA even if there are no symptoms. By taking them off there is absolutely no risk of damage. So if the doctors were instructed to use it as an interchange tactic, none could really argue in a professional capacity.

 

[Big Pete]

The worst one for me was when Andrew Fifita hurt his ankle in Game 1 Origin this year and went off with a HIA. Free interchange and their forwards were able to run amok - he came back on 15 minutes later and continued to tear us apart.

It was sus, but Fifita played it well. He went off after McGuire came in late with a swinging arm to the head. Fifta played the ball fairly normally, then reached for his head as if he realised what had just happened and the trainer came over.

 

[CaptainHook]

The reason it's a farce is because the NRL haven't simultaneously cracked down on severe punishments for high shots.

Typical NRL. they bring in something with the best intentions but haven't thought through every aspect of it and how it affects the game.

That's left the door open for coaches and clubs to exploit the rule.

Mascord said it best - they've beefed up the concussion rule but they haven't beefed up the rules that can give people a concussion. They've created an incentive to knock people out.

What about a mandatory sin binning for players placed on report? That will ensure coaches instruct their platers to keep their tackles nice and low.