SPOILER Marvel/DC Comic Book and Movie Chat

Cult3

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The movie threads seem pretty popular but I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for all of the Superhero chat.

I haven't read the comics for a few years now but I have a few weeks off and it seems Marvel has just relaunched (again) so I might get started on them. Has anyone been keeping up with the comics recently or do you stick with the older stuff?
 

Sproj

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Older stuff for me and more Marvel than DC. Got a really good friend who loves DC so we often have a chat where we fill in the info for each other depending on what movie is coming out. Would really love for DC to get their movie act together, they have some fantastic characters to choose from.
 

Cult3

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Older stuff for me and more Marvel than DC. Got a really good friend who loves DC so we often have a chat where we fill in the info for each other depending on what movie is coming out. Would really love for DC to get their movie act together, they have some fantastic characters to choose from.
I've always been way more into Marvel. My uncle has a room with bookshelves covering the walls filled with comics but for some reason over the last few years he's just been getting obscure DC comics I have never heard of. Him and my old man were my source of comics so since I've moved to Brisbane and my dad stopped getting them I haven't read anything.

Did you see they announced a Joker origin story today? Do you think it will be similar to the Killing Joke? I was loving what Gotham was doing with Jerome and his brother this season. Might be my favourite show on TV.

I haven't really disliked anything the DCEU has done recently, except their version of the Joker. But it certainly could be better. I really hate their television universe though. It looks like a bunch of cosplayers filmed a show for Youtube. That includes Arrow. I really struggle to get into it.
 

Sproj

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I've always been way more into Marvel. My uncle has a room with bookshelves covering the walls filled with comics but for some reason over the last few years he's just been getting obscure DC comics I have never heard of. Him and my old man were my source of comics so since I've moved to Brisbane and my dad stopped getting them I haven't read anything.

Did you see they announced a Joker origin story today? Do you think it will be similar to the Killing Joke? I was loving what Gotham was doing with Jerome and his brother this season. Might be my favourite show on TV.

I haven't really disliked anything the DCEU has done recently, except their version of the Joker. But it certainly could be better. I really hate their television universe though. It looks like a bunch of cosplayers filmed a show for Youtube. That includes Arrow. I really struggle to get into it.
Love everything in your comment here and agree. I hope the Joker origin story is done well, The Killing Joke wasn’t.

This might be controversial but I think DC does campy well, hence why Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Green Lantern: The Animated Series, Wonder Woman and The Flash are all ok to excellent. That is really their niche.

They obviously can get it right in a serious take if everything falls into place, ala The Dark Knight series and at times, Gotham. The problem is, they don’t know what they want to be, they haven’t got a formula.

Marvel on the other hand have a genius guiding everything in Stan Lee and have struck gold with Kevin Feige and the Russo brothers.

Marvel also isn’t afraid to twist their whole universe repeatedly, DC takes risks in directions that just don’t matter. Justice League and Suicide Squad are two of the worst big budget movies ever because DC doesn’t know how to establish their own identity, they are trying to follow Marvel too much.
 

Cult3

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Love everything in your comment here and agree. I hope the Joker origin story is done well, The Killing Joke wasn’t.

This might be controversial but I think DC does campy well, hence why Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Green Lantern: The Animated Series, Wonder Woman and The Flash are all ok to excellent. That is really their niche.

They obviously can get it right in a serious take if everything falls into place, ala The Dark Knight series and at times, Gotham. The problem is, they don’t know what they want to be, they haven’t got a formula.

Marvel on the other hand have a genius guiding everything in Stan Lee and have struck gold with Kevin Feige and the Russo brothers.

Marvel also isn’t afraid to twist their whole universe repeatedly, DC takes risks in directions that just don’t matter. Justice League and Suicide Squad are two of the worst big budget movies ever because DC doesn’t know how to establish their own identity, they are trying to follow Marvel too much.
Instead of worrying about a Joker standalone and Suicide Squad (Which I didn't hate because I knew what to expect) they need to establish their Justice League characters with their own movies. They do seem to panic and try change things up every time a movie doesn't succeed. How do you think DC can save their Universe at this point?
 

Sproj

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Instead of worrying about a Joker standalone and Suicide Squad (Which I didn't hate because I knew what to expect) they need to establish their Justice League characters with their own movies. They do seem to panic and try change things up every time a movie doesn't succeed. How do you think DC can save their Universe at this point?
Reboot it but wait a year or two to do so. Plain and simple. Marvel’s reign will lessen in the next few years, though it will stay strong once Infinity War part 2 (or whatever it will be called) is over and the originals move on.

The other option is to re-work it by getting rid of the guy playing The Flash (he’s terrible), the guy playing Cyborg and get in - Dwayne Johnson as Cyborg, use Grant Gustin as the big screen Flash. Don’t skimp on star power in your line-up. Do whatever has to be done to get Bale back as Batman. Set it in an alternate universe like they do on the tv shows even.

Sideline Superman for the next couple of movies and tease Darkseid as your ultimate villain, he’s the Thanos of the DCEU.
 

Cult3

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Reboot it but wait a year or two to do so. Plain and simple. Marvel’s reign will lessen in the next few years, though it will stay strong once Infinity War part 2 (or whatever it will be called) is over and the originals move on.

The other option is to re-work it by getting rid of the guy playing The Flash (he’s terrible), the guy playing Cyborg and get in - Dwayne Johnson as Cyborg, use Grant Gustin as the big screen Flash. Don’t skimp on star power in your line-up. Do whatever has to be done to get Bale back as Batman. Set it in an alternate universe like they do on the tv shows even.

Sideline Superman for the next couple of movies and tease Darkseid as your ultimate villain, he’s the Thanos of the DCEU.
I'd watch the shit out of that. Superman definitely should have been asleep for longer. He should be their last line of defense, exactly like Captain Marvel is in The Avengers. The Rock as Cyborg would automatically turn him into a huge character. I like that they changed Aquaman from a blonde surfer looing dude. And yes, Christian Bale as Batman in Justice League would be incredible. By all sources Affleck isn't enjoying the pressure of being Batman.

To be a little bit different I'd like them to throw out the TV shows and start over. Instead of Origin stories they bring out one or two seasons probably seperately introducing the movie versions of Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and Batman to their audience. Eventually culminating in them joining forces to create the Justice League.
 

Sproj

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I'd watch the shit out of that. Superman definitely should have been asleep for longer. He should be their last line of defense, exactly like Captain Marvel is in The Avengers. The Rock as Cyborg would automatically turn him into a huge character. I like that they changed Aquaman from a blonde surfer looing dude. And yes, Christian Bale as Batman in Justice League would be incredible. By all sources Affleck isn't enjoying the pressure of being Batman.

To be a little bit different I'd like them to throw out the TV shows and start over. Instead of Origin stories they bring out one or two seasons probably seperately introducing the movie versions of Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and Batman to their audience. Eventually culminating in them joining forces to create the Justice League.
Where do we sign up to solve DC’s problems? Between us we can get it done!
 

Cult3

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Where do we sign up to solve DC’s problems? Between us we can get it done!
Doesn't seem that difficult does it. Makes you wonder why the people getting paid millions can't get it right
 

CaptainHook

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Great idea for a thread Cult3 Cult3 !

I was a Marvel guy growing up. I started with Spider-Man and then took up X-Men. Gravitated over to DC as I got older - I think it gets to a point where you realise all these stories have been told before and every few years Marvel hits the reset button. I don't really read too many comics these days. If I do it's usually a self-contained series rather than an ongoing and I mainly stick with stuff from the eighties and nineties.

The 90's era comics actually have some great stories from both companies despite its poor reputation.

A few random thoughts I have on the current state of comic films:

Batman Begins is the best comic book movie of the last twenty years in terms of the big two companies. There were earlier films that treated comic books seriously such as Spider-Man, X-Men, Blade but it also set the template that Marvel have perfected.

Man of Steel is a pretty good film. The problem with it though is it was never intended to launch a shared universe. It's funny how history gets rewritten. DC and WB tried to retroactively twist it into something it's not so they're launching a slate of films on an already shaky foundation. Watching it purely as a self-contained film (which is what it was intended) it's an enjoyable film.

Suicide Squad is complete and utter garbage. Shouldn't have even been made. For the cost of that film and it's marketing I don't know why they didn't build like a hundred children's hospitals. Might do the world some good. This film added nothing to existence at all. Like The Last Knight.

I enjoyed Wonder Woman. I barely remember Dawn of Justice and haven't seen Justice League.

I have revisited Nolan's Batman trilogy. I don't think I've flip flopped more on a movie than The Dark Knight Rises. I hate it. I love it. I hate it again lol. As much as shared universes are great and all personally I'm getting a bit 'shared universed' out. I find a lot of value in a stand alone film or trilogy these days.

As for Marvel, I enjoyed Infinity War. This is despite not checking in with a Marvel movie since around 2014. It kinda confirmed what I always thought - the audience doesn't really need to see them in order or even to see them at all to enjoy the next one. The films still go out of their way to bring average fans up to speed.

A good example is the opening scene. Seeing the Asgardian ship decimated by Thanos and his goons immediately made me sit up straight. I hadn't seen Ragnarok so was unaware that Thor and Loki were about to be ambushed.

It works better and is more effective if you haven't seen it - the distress call playing over the opening moments was terrific.

Another refreshing thing was not overtly touching on 'social issues' or political commentary in the film. It must've killed Disney not to throw in a gag from Tony Stark once they learned of how Thanos wants to wipe out half the Earth. Something like 'hopefully just the deplorable half' and cue the audience laugh track. I admire their restraint.

I paid to see a Blockbuster and that's what I got.

I've been thinking of where they are going for the sequel. I hope they don't just turn back time. That 'd be boring. Fingers crossed the film makers come up with something a bit more original.

Great thread again Cult!
 

Sproj

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Infinity War is not just a great marvel film, it sets a new benchmark in films period. To have a shared universe come together that well with so many characters and still have time to make you feel sympathetic for a genocide intended bad guy, well that is some amazing work from the directors. That is one absolutely amazing piece of film mastery.
 

CaptainHook

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Infinity War is not just a great marvel film, it sets a new benchmark in films period. To have a shared universe come together that well with so many characters and still have time to make you feel sympathetic for a genocide intended bad guy, well that is some amazing work from the directors. That is one absolutely amazing piece of film mastery.
That's some high praise indeed, Sproj. Love your enthusiasm mate.

Personally, I wouldn't call it a masterpiece. It's a very good film and I liked it a lot.

I think there are some conceptual and storytelling flaws that prevent it from being truly great in my eyes.

Firstly, making Thanos the main character was a terrific decision. By bringing all these characters together you have the problem of juggling them all. Why go through that? Just make the purple guy the centre point and everyone bounces off him.

Splitting them up into little teams was an inspired choice as well. It's like getting three or four movies in one.

I think the idea of Thanos has a few issues though. So basically he wants to annihilate half of all life as he wants to stop what happened to his home world. It got overpopulated, they consumed too many resources, over extended themselves etc.

This is problematic. For one thing it's been clearly established that the Marvel Universe is more technologically advanced than ours. I mean Tony Stark has a nuclear reactor in his chest so the notion of not having power for everyone, for example, is sketchy at best.

I'm also puzzled about how killing 50% of life is meant to stop over consumption and they'll be enough for everybody. Look at history - after a great upheaval, particularly if it's the aftermath of a disaster, the birth rate skyrockets. With no food, no power, everything is shut, roads are blocked, can't go anywhere - people have nothing to do but make babies lol.

I could be guilty of over thinking things and applying 'real world' stuff to a blockbuster super hero film but even within that context Thanos needs a way to keep the population stagnated - maybe snapping his fingers periodically.

Another thing - surely it crossed your mind that if he can now control all of space, time and reality - why can't he just make more food, water and resources for everyone?

It might sound like I'm nitpicking. I'm really not and I expect him and his philosophy to be fleshed out even further in the next one. Both scripts were locked down before filming so it's clearly been mapped out for the sequel and the next slate of films they have in the pipeline.

One more thing - Thor arriving in Wakanda was an amazing moment. Never saw a reaction like that in any film I've seen in a theater ever. Place just erupted.
 
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Jason Simmons

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Wasn’t shown too well in the film, but Thanos is the ‘mad’ Titan.

His character is insane.

So what may seem logical and reasonable to us, is completely unreasonable to him and vice versa.
 

Jason Simmons

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Instead of worrying about a Joker standalone and Suicide Squad (Which I didn't hate because I knew what to expect) they need to establish their Justice League characters with their own movies. They do seem to panic and try change things up every time a movie doesn't succeed. How do you think DC can save their Universe at this point?
They have to start again. They need to find a premise for making these movies other than ‘lets try and copy what Marvel has already done and build a universe that makes tons of cash.’

Their starting point was ludicrous. By all means pick Superman to lead the show in all his bright, airy glory, but why the hell would you then pick a director known for desaturating the f*ck out of everything? (And one who is a hack at that...)

Nolan knew when to desaturate Batman / Gotham and when to brighten it up.

Synder doesn’t understand the difference and clearly thinks desaturating is the most artistic thing in existence and then bags out his own audience when they reasonably critique his choices as ‘not understanding it.’

Hack, we get it. It just isn’t ANY good. You have taken the two most popular comic book characters in existence (Spiderman ‘might’ challenge them, but combined they are top 3) and made them boring, un-likeable and un-interesting.

Unlike the Nolan-verse that left us wanting more, JL’s returns showed the audience has already had enough.

Wonder Woman aside (which had many of the same problems, btw...) to me the DC universe needs to be reset, virtually entirely.

Use some of the same actors if you must, but re-boot the entire ethos behind the current films. They are in a hole and haven’t yet realised, they are still trying to dig their way out...
 

Sproj

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They have to start again. They need to find a premise for making these movies other than ‘lets try and copy what Marvel has already done and build a universe that makes tons of cash.’

Their starting point was ludicrous. By all means pick Superman to lead the show in all his bright, airy glory, but why the hell would you then pick a director known for desaturating the f*ck out of everything? (And one who is a hack at that...)

Nolan knew when to desaturate Batman / Gotham and when to brighten it up.

Synder doesn’t understand the difference and clearly thinks desaturating is the most artistic thing in existence and then bags out his own audience when they reasonably critique his choices as ‘not understanding it.’

Hack, we get it. It just isn’t ANY good. You have taken the two most popular comic book characters in existence (Spiderman ‘might’ challenge them, but combined they are top 3) and made them boring, un-likeable and un-interesting.

Unlike the Nolan-verse that left us wanting more, JL’s returns showed the audience has already had enough.

Wonder Woman aside (which had many of the same problems, btw...) to me the DC universe needs to be reset, virtually entirely.

Use some of the same actors if you must, but re-boot the entire ethos behind the current films. They are in a hole and haven’t yet realised, they are still trying to dig their way out...
Love this post. I think with the Justice League team up, rebooting shouldn’t be that hard, they’ve barely got going anyway.

An interesting avenue would be to get the Justice League sidelined and go the Young Justice avenue. That is a market they could capitalize on. Get in some of the best young talent and have Batman run the show.
 

Cult3

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Just saw Ant-Man and the Wasp. It was enjoyable. The ending was good but I called it months ago. Ghost was pretty cool as well.
 

Sproj

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Just saw Ant-Man and the Wasp. It was enjoyable. The ending was good but I called it months ago. Ghost was pretty cool as well.
Can't wait to see it. Have to wait months here. Pfft
 

Sproj

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Just prepping this for the new Captain Marvel movie

I'll be back in here later. :)
 

Cult3

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Just saw it. People clapped. It was good but not clap worthy.
 

Unbreakable

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Judging by the IMDB rating it's on track to be comfortably the lowest rated modern day Marvel adaption. (Yes, even lower than Edward Norton's Hulk)
 
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