National Broadband Network

Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
This argument is flawed though. Wasted / "cost more" compared to what? You not going to seriously argue that Labor's original budget was remotely accurate. They didn't even consult the industry when they came up with their costing, they literally pulled it out of their arse.
It's not flawed at all.

Given the current network will need a rebuild, they have wasted money. There is NO argument for the LNP's NBN. None, so don't even bother with supporting your Bible bashers on this one.
 

Morkel

International Captain
20,384
16,611
The whole infrastructure was a joke with 5G around the corner. The NBN in entirety was a horrible joke of an expense to the Australian taxpayers.

One of my mates was a supervisor for the field techs. He started his day by going for coffee at around 9-10 (whenever it best suited him) and was home most days by 1pm. All while raking in $180k a year.

You know he qualified for the role? A mate... he was a brickies labourer prior...

The whole thing is a ridiculous waste of money.
That was my argument at the start - that even though FTTP was the "best" of what was currently available, it would eventually be succeeded by something better, so blowing our entire load on FTTP was silly if we could get something workable at a lower cost. It's debatable whether people consider FTTN "workable", but it's fine for most people. And for businesses that need something more reliable, they can always pay for something better - like we are.
 

Morkel

International Captain
20,384
16,611
It's not flawed at all.

Given the current network will need a rebuild, they have wasted money. There is NO argument for the LNP's NBN. None, so don't even bother with supporting your Bible bashers on this one.
Yeah there is. The argument is that it was cheaper. Not everyone wants to have their tax dollars spent so some nerds can measure their internet-speed e-peens.

If 5G is indeed close, it vindicates the entire argument. Won't need to rebuild shit if the whole wired system is obsolete.
 

Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
The whole infrastructure was a joke with 5G around the corner. The NBN in entirety was a horrible joke of an expense to the Australian taxpayers.

One of my mates was a supervisor for the field techs. He started his day by going for coffee at around 9-10 (whenever it best suited him) and was home most days by 1pm. All while raking in $180k a year.

You know he qualified for the role? A mate... he was a brickies labourer prior...

The whole thing is a ridiculous waste of money.
That says more about your mate I would think. It's typical of Labor though, great idea, shit planning. But to remotely suggest that the planning and implementation of the LNP NBN is anything but a disaster, which cost more, and took longer, is absolute bullshit.

I disagree on the 5G thing. Wireless technology is simply not where it needs to be yet, including 5G. Download speeds and reception are only part of what needs to be looked at with internet connections, and at the moment, wireless doesn't cut it. The NBN should have been a complete national roll-out of FTTP, which then could have been switched to FTTC.

The bottom line is. We were fucked by Murdoch and his Government. We've already flipped too, it's currently cheaper to be building a FTTP/C than the way we are going. These fucking dickheads are actually spending money to upgrade copper. In 2019.
 

Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
That was my argument at the start - that even though FTTP was the "best" of what was currently available, it would eventually be succeeded by something better, so blowing our entire load on FTTP was silly if we could get something workable at a lower cost. It's debatable whether people consider FTTN "workable", but it's fine for most people. And for businesses that need something more reliable, they can always pay for something better - like we are.
It's complete and utter fallacy that wireless is going to be something to rely on in the near future. Right not FTTP is CHEAPER.
 

soup

State of Origin Rep
6,568
4,384
That says more about your mate I would think. It's typical of Labor though, great idea, shit planning. But to remotely suggest that the planning and implementation of the LNP NBN is anything but a disaster, which cost more, and took longer, is absolute bullshit.

I disagree on the 5G thing. Wireless technology is simply not where it needs to be yet, including 5G. Download speeds and reception are only part of what needs to be looked at with internet connections, and at the moment, wireless doesn't cut it. The NBN should have been a complete national roll-out of FTTP, which then could have been switched to FTTC.

The bottom line is. We were fucked by Murdoch and his Government. We've already flipped too, it's currently cheaper to be building a FTTP/C than the way we are going. These fucking dickheads are actually spending money to upgrade copper. In 2019.
Not really. It says more about the integrity of the project. That was par for course.

But in some ways you may be right. He’s not a mate anymore and has since lost his family due to laziness and selfishness.
 
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Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
Not really. It says more about the integrity of the project. That was par for course.

But in some ways you may be right. He’s not a mate anymore and has since lost his family due to laziness and selfishness.
Probably both. I don't think anyone denies what Labor put forward was not organised well. It's safe to assume that a lot of people would do what your mate did given it's government money, it seems a pretty common thing in any industry when it comes to spending Federal cash.
 

Kimlo

International Captain
22,627
7,574
Brisbane
Yeah there is. The argument is that it was cheaper. Not everyone wants to have their tax dollars spent so some nerds can measure their internet-speed e-peens.

If 5G is indeed close, it vindicates the entire argument. Won't need to rebuild shit if the whole wired system is obsolete.
Lol 5G or 6G will never replace a wired network. They need a fibre backhaul the whole way through.

It's cheaper for everyone to buy cars. Why do we build a rail network.

It's cheaper for the tax payer if everyone gets solar at home, why should my tax dollars go to wiring a random house. If they need it pay for it.

Definitely worthwhile to spend 80 billion on outdated redundant military techs so your LNP boys can say they have fancy jets though. Tax payers appreciate it.
 
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Morkel

International Captain
20,384
16,611
Lol 5G or 6G will never replace a wired network. They need a fibre backhaul the whole way through.

It's cheaper for everyone to buy cars. Why do we build a rail network.

It's cheaper for the tax payer if everyone gets solar at home, why should my tax dollars go to wiring a random house. If they need it pay for it.

Definitely worthwhile to spend 80 billion on outdated redundant military techs so your LNP boys can say they have fancy jets though. Tax payers appreciate it.
You're kind of making my point for me, re cars vs the rail network.

We all (most of us who work anyway) have to get somewhere. We don't expect the government to buy every working Australian a BMW. So we have a public transport system that gets 95% of the population a decent minimum, with rail & bus networks. If you want something better, more convenient, and more comfortable, buy yourself a car. If you have to have the top of the line because your work demands are high, or so you can feel like a hero, buy a top-end vehicle.

Same goes for the internet. The old argument about it hindering education is bullshit because as far as I know, every school or institution gets FTTP anyway, and had it rigged up early in the planning as a priority. For everyone that just needs the internet to do basic things, FTTN does the job, if a little inconvenient at times. If you want it faster, pay more. If you want the fastest with negligible downtime, pay more more. If you have to have the best because your ego can't handle being outdone on your Speedtest, pay a fuckload.
 

Kimlo

International Captain
22,627
7,574
Brisbane
You're kind of making my point for me, re cars vs the rail network.

We all (most of us who work anyway) have to get somewhere. We don't expect the government to buy every working Australian a BMW. So we have a public transport system that gets 95% of the population a decent minimum, with rail & bus networks. If you want something better, more convenient, and more comfortable, buy yourself a car. If you have to have the top of the line because your work demands are high, or so you can feel like a hero, buy a top-end vehicle.

Same goes for the internet. The old argument about it hindering education is bullshit because as far as I know, every school or institution gets FTTP anyway, and had it rigged up early in the planning as a priority. For everyone that just needs the internet to do basic things, FTTN does the job, if a little inconvenient at times. If you want it faster, pay more. If you want the fastest with negligible downtime, pay more more. If you have to have the best because your ego can't handle being outdone on your Speedtest, pay a fuckload.
Buses are far cheaper than a rail network. Making tax payers take bikes and cars everywhere is cheaper still. We can go one step further, if you want to get to work comfortably you should pay to have your road paved. Why do we build a rail network. Don't dodge the question.

And you making this an issue of speed just shows you're hopelessly out of your depth on this topic. FTTN will be insufficient in future, it's not a matter of if but when. The entire network portion that isn't FTTN will need to be rebuilt. They spent a **** ton fixing the HFC network too.

It's literally, by any measure more expensive to build it the wrong way. Infrastructure is not a cost, it's an asset.

Any comment on the LNP locking in 80BN on outdated military equipment? Costs far more than the NBN and is actually so the government can feel like hero's and stroke their ego, look how fast our jets are.
 
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Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
You're kind of making my point for me, re cars vs the rail network.

We all (most of us who work anyway) have to get somewhere. We don't expect the government to buy every working Australian a BMW. So we have a public transport system that gets 95% of the population a decent minimum, with rail & bus networks. If you want something better, more convenient, and more comfortable, buy yourself a car. If you have to have the top of the line because your work demands are high, or so you can feel like a hero, buy a top-end vehicle.

Same goes for the internet. The old argument about it hindering education is bullshit because as far as I know, every school or institution gets FTTP anyway, and had it rigged up early in the planning as a priority. For everyone that just needs the internet to do basic things, FTTN does the job, if a little inconvenient at times. If you want it faster, pay more. If you want the fastest with negligible downtime, pay more more. If you have to have the best because your ego can't handle being outdone on your Speedtest, pay a fuckload.
Yet again we see a classic case of Morkel trying to make an argument on a topic he has no clue about. You think in 5 years my maximum 100mbps line will be sufficient? Of course it won't be. You think your shitty ADSL is going to take you into the future, and help your kids position themselves into a digital world, including teaching, while all of them, plus you and the wife and the parents want to use it for all the new tech that will need it by then? No, it's hopeless.

The fact you actually think this is about speed just proves once again that you are nothing but an LNP shill who eats up anything the old men tell you to eat up. You are Tony Abbott.
 

Foordy

International Rep
17,106
8,073
Soup is right. It's expensive. I'm on double that for $79 too. You'll be contracted now, and TPG is fine, you won't be disappointed.
you guys are right, i could have gone to a cheaper company like exetel or someone like that and save a bit more coin (was paying $82/month for Telstra ADSL (and only because my brother got a 10% discount with Telstra) ...

but reasonably happy with my decision, even though i'm probably paying a little for the reputation of the ISP.

i did sign up on an 18 month contract to save myself $100 set up fee. (could have gone month to month if i paid the fee, but didn't see the point since i likely wouldn't be changing for a while)

if i may ask, what sort of plan speed/cost/tech are you on?
 

soup

State of Origin Rep
6,568
4,384
you guys are right, i could have gone to a cheaper company like exetel or someone like that and save a bit more coin (was paying $82/month for Telstra ADSL (and only because my brother got a 10% discount with Telstra) ...

but reasonably happy with my decision, even though i'm probably paying a little for the reputation of the ISP.

i did sign up on an 18 month contract to save myself $100 set up fee. (could have gone month to month if i paid the fee, but didn't see the point since i likely wouldn't be changing for a while)

if i may ask, what sort of plan speed/cost/tech are you on?
Month to month, $79/month, 100/40, unlimited download/upload, no setup fees, FTTP. Aussie Broadband
 
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Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
Month to month, $79/month, 100/40, unlimited download/upload, no setup fees, FTTP. Aussie Broadband
As above. But FTTN and shitty copper. Which is completely crap.

Australian technicians also, who don't read off a script, and actually know how shit works.

I was with TPG for years Foordy Foordy - They're great. Your $100 saving isn't a saving though ;-)

Also, I recommend getting a new modem. That heap of shit they send you is exactly that.
 
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Morkel

International Captain
20,384
16,611
Yet again we see a classic case of Morkel trying to make an argument on a topic he has no clue about. You think in 5 years my maximum 100mbps line will be sufficient? Of course it won't be. You think your shitty ADSL is going to take you into the future, and help your kids position themselves into a digital world, including teaching, while all of them, plus you and the wife and the parents want to use it for all the new tech that will need it by then? No, it's hopeless.

The fact you actually think this is about speed just proves once again that you are nothing but an LNP shill who eats up anything the old men tell you to eat up. You are Tony Abbott.
Tells me I'm stupid for making it all about speed. Then tells me that the limitation in the future will be in regards to speed.

5 years time your 100mbps won't be sufficient for you because you're a tech nerd and want the fastest available technology, and want all taxpayers to pay for it. You'll want to be streaming multiple devices in 4K because that's what everyone else is doing and your internet won't keep up and it's not fair because other countries are faster and we're so behind.

I'll be perfectly fine, because I don't need the fastest of everything, I don't feel entitled enough to expect my internet to be flawless 100% of the time and I'm reasonable enough to concede that standard HD is fine, if that's what it takes for my kids to have the bandwidth to do all the cool futuristic 3D VR things that the ads tell you will definitely happen and you'll need to have access to or your kids will fall behind.

Also, I don't have ADSL.
 

Morkel

International Captain
20,384
16,611
Buses are far cheaper than a rail network. Making tax payers take bikes and cars everywhere is cheaper still. We can go one step further, if you want to get to work comfortably you should pay to have your road paved. Why do we build a rail network. Don't dodge the question.

And you making this an issue of speed just shows you're hopelessly out of your depth on this topic. FTTN will be insufficient in future, it's not a matter of if but when. The entire network portion that isn't FTTN will need to be rebuilt. They spent a **** ton fixing the HFC network too.

It's literally, by any measure more expensive to build it the wrong way. Infrastructure is not a cost, it's an asset.

Any comment on the LNP locking in 80BN on outdated military equipment? Costs far more than the NBN and is actually so the government can feel like hero's and stroke their ego, look how fast our jets are.
What question am I dodging in regards to the rail network?

Will the entire system need to rebuilt? If FTTP was going to be able to keep up for the next 20-30 years it might, but we're moving ahead way faster with wireless technologies.

And I agree with you on us buying old, failed military technology. It was a stupid decision that was obviously done for political reasons and as a way to appease the US. I'm not going to say I'm happy with it just because it's an LNP decision.
 

Wolfie

State of Origin Rep
6,343
4,403
Buses are far cheaper than a rail network. Making tax payers take bikes and cars everywhere is cheaper still. We can go one step further, if you want to get to work comfortably you should pay to have your road paved. Why do we build a rail network. Don't dodge the question.

And you making this an issue of speed just shows you're hopelessly out of your depth on this topic. FTTN will be insufficient in future, it's not a matter of if but when. The entire network portion that isn't FTTN will need to be rebuilt. They spent a **** ton fixing the HFC network too.

It's literally, by any measure more expensive to build it the wrong way. Infrastructure is not a cost, it's an asset.

Any comment on the LNP locking in 80BN on outdated military equipment? Costs far more than the NBN and is actually so the government can feel like hero's and stroke their ego, look how fast our jets are.
Not sure a rail network is a great comparison. We dont just build a rail network for public transport, we build a rail network to move stuff around that its not practical to move around on the roads ( Coal, Iron Ore etc )

I think the NBN in its current form is a stuff up. Once it was started, it should have continued the way it was to give us a better network. Makes no sense to me to build something you know is going to need replacing in a fairly short timeframe. Build it once, build it right.
 

Nashy

International Captain
38,266
13,147
Brisbane
Tells me I'm stupid for making it all about speed. Then tells me that the limitation in the future will be in regards to speed.

5 years time your 100mbps won't be sufficient for you because you're a tech nerd and want the fastest available technology, and want all taxpayers to pay for it. You'll want to be streaming multiple devices in 4K because that's what everyone else is doing and your internet won't keep up and it's not fair because other countries are faster and we're so behind.

I'll be perfectly fine, because I don't need the fastest of everything, I don't feel entitled enough to expect my internet to be flawless 100% of the time and I'm reasonable enough to concede that standard HD is fine, if that's what it takes for my kids to have the bandwidth to do all the cool futuristic 3D VR things that the ads tell you will definitely happen and you'll need to have access to or your kids will fall behind.

Also, I don't have ADSL.
No, I didn't say that at all. You're just assuming everything to do with the internet is the end user speed. Which it's not.

You have managed to prove across two posts here that you have absolutely and utterly no idea what the implications of this shitty multi network NBN is.

You have discounted the fact that we get low bandwidth to the end user, you've discounted the fact that all of those technologies, in 2019, are already suffering congestion issues, due to both the bad authentication and bandwidth allocation used on the networks, and because of the horrible degraded technology that they're trying to bring up to speed (don't get confused here, not download speed). Which they simply can't do, without ripping up cables and replacing them. Replacing copper and HFC cables, which is costing more than just doing the job correctly, with fibre, like Labor originally intended.

Because you are discounting these things, not by choice, but due to shear ignorance in how your internet actually works, you're also losing sight of the big picture.

Like the fact that while hospitals and schools can currently get fibre, because the NBN hasn't gone ahead, the backhaul operations are struggling to cope with the small amount of data already getting through. Simply adding a couple of gigabit connections should be fine, that'll do it. Until congestion kicks it's ass, or, the stupid extra technology thrown on the top which splits up the backhaul into all the networks causes bottlenecks. That's happening right now, right this very moment. That's why when you see speed tests on here, you see such massive fluctuations in ping, and speed. But again, you can only see the speed number, and think that is what it's all about. It's not just about speed.

FTTB
FTTN
FTTC
HFC
Fixed Wireless
Mobile Wireless

6 networks depending on where you live. 6 sets of techs. 6 sets of training every single staff member with absolutely and utterly ANYTHING to do with the NBN, or all of it's suppliers, and contractors. 6 different systems of authentication. 6 failure points. A requirement to stock 5 different types of cables, different tooling for the cables (Hint. The tools use on fibre are different to those used on copper, which are different to those used on HFC.

That's a waste of money no matter how much you love the LNP and copy them pretty much word for word on their bullshit reasoning. Right now, I do not need more bandwidth, but to suggest (and you are by calling me entitled) that others don't need it right this very second, is just typical of you thinking about you, and what's best for you, so it must be best for everyone. It's very common trend.

You make out like this is some sort of personal battle, when the reality is, this is at national level, and sounding very much above your capacity.

But please. Keep banging on about how the end speed test result is the be all and end all to this argument. Because it only serves to make you look like an idiot. The download speed is such a tiny, tiny part of this, but you're elevating it to be the biggest deal, not me.

If you're prepared to let the LNP waste money, that's fine, and whatever. But, don't assume because Morkel is happy with that waste, everyone is happy with it. Or because Morkel doesn't need good internet, everyone else doesn't need it.

If you think 1920's technology is acceptable in 2019, your views here are as dated as your views in the religion thread. Which is about the only debate where you were speaking from actual knowledge, and not just arguing for the sake of it. I look forward to the uptake of more technical words once you have had a chance to do some Google research later to make yourself feel like you are fooling people who actually live and breath tech.

Edit. I have become everything I hated. #textwall
 
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