NRL Players in hot water

Kimlo

International Captain
Staff
22,963
8,274
Brisbane
If the only evidence they have is what she's said, it's going to be pretty tough to convert the charge into a conviction.

Really, I have no opinion either way, it's not at all fair to cast any aspersions on either side as no one here knows what happened that night. The only thing we do know is they all willingly went to that place together, after that it appears it's a case of he/she said. Whether that, along with any supporting evidence is enough to land a conviction, only time will tell. It is a very serious charge though, is he going to be allowed to play in the meantime? These cases can go a very long time.

If there is enough evidence and he is convicted, he should be de-registered for life no questions asked, no matter what the actual court sentence is.
 

Alec

International Rep
15,752
6,883
It seems like a lot of people seem to want her to be right. I can't agree with that, better for her to have made the story up, this way 2 people stay innocent and 1 didn't actually go through a traumatic experience.
 

Unbreakable

International Rep
Staff
14,638
11,039
27.4° S, 153.0° E
It is a very serious charge though, is he going to be allowed to play in the meantime?
Of course he will, the NRL always allow players to play if they've plead not guilty. That's where a part of the problem lies.

de Belin could be free to play a good chunk of the season after (allegedly) repeatedly raping a woman, yet Napa is apparently facing a suspension for having consensual sex. I don't really get it.
 

Porthoz

International Captain
Staff
I don’t really agree with that. I am sure a scumbag defence lawyer will push that shit, but the fact that she left soon after getting to the club and went and got a rape kit seems pretty believable. Sounds like a very vulnerable woman who played along that everything was cool until she could get the **** to safety.
I'm not claiming otherwise nor passing judgement.
The circumstances around this case are strange, and something I have seldom heard of. The description of the assault is very believable, which puts me in her corner, but the quasi amicable way they went their separate ways, just messes with my mind.

Of course, I may be well off base, as I have no idea what it is like, but I'm just not sure how calm and collected a person can be after being violently and repeatedly raped as is recounted in the article.
It's not the shower in itself that I find weird, because many victims do find it soothing, but doing it immediately while still in the presence of her assaulters, then calling a Uber for them all, going for drinks, then going to a friend before finally going to the police... it just brings doubt into play, which is not good for her.

As much as I want rapist scumbags in jail (and I really, really do!), I want even less someone innocent in jail.
False accusations are unfortunately too common. Whether out of shame, revenge, spite, etc... they do occur, and while it pains me that the guilty may get away scot-free, the burden of proof must be on the accusation. The more serious the accusation, more solid the evidence must be for a conviction that will put a person behind bars for a long time (or even to death in certain countries).

I wish there was some way to determine with a high degree of certainty if a person is lying, especially in cases such as this, where there may only be the words of one side against those of the other, because if they claim the rough sex was consensual, I am not sure how much forensic science has advanced to be able to distinguish the difference.

Regardless, if the prosecution has a solid case and they are proven guilty, fucking throw the book at them, and lock them up as long as possible. Hopefully they suffer the same treatment in jail to make it even sweeter.
 

broncos4life

International Rep
16,900
10,572
Brisbane
I'm not claiming otherwise nor passing judgement.
The circumstances around this case are strange, and something I have seldom heard of. The description of the assault is very believable, which puts me in her corner, but the quasi amicable way they went their separate ways, just messes with my mind.

Of course, I may be well off base, as I have no idea what it is like, but I'm just not sure how calm and collected a person can be after being violently and repeatedly raped as is recounted in the article.
It's not the shower in itself that I find weird, because many victims do find it soothing, but doing it immediately while still in the presence of her assaulters, then calling a Uber for them all, going for drinks, then going to a friend before finally going to the police... it just brings doubt into play, which is not good for her.

As much as I want rapist scumbags in jail (and I really, really do!), I want even less someone innocent in jail.
False accusations are unfortunately too common. Whether out of shame, revenge, spite, etc... they do occur, and while it pains me that the guilty may get away scot-free, the burden of proof must be on the accusation. The more serious the accusation, more solid the evidence must be for a conviction that will put a person behind bars for a long time (or even to death in certain countries).

I wish there was some way to determine with a high degree of certainty if a person is lying, especially in cases such as this, where there may only be the words of one side against those of the other, because if they claim the rough sex was consensual, I am not sure how much forensic science has advanced to be able to distinguish the difference.

Regardless, if the prosecution has a solid case and they are proven guilty, fucking throw the book at them, and lock them up as long as possible. Hopefully they suffer the same treatment in jail to make it even sweeter.
The amicable way they separated is fairly common. It’s a survival technique, people don’t want the perpetrator to think they will dob them in so they act like it is all ok.
 

Huge

State of Origin Rep
6,996
3,995
Ipswich
The amicable way they separated is fairly common. It’s a survival technique, people don’t want the perpetrator to think they will dob them in so they act like it is all ok.
Maybe so but going for drinks after? Not keeping the Uber and going straight to the hospital/police? As long as justice is served I will be satisfied. It seems strange though. It just has an element of doubt from the reports.
 

Sirlee oldman

NRL Player
1,019
1,185
I'm not claiming otherwise nor passing judgement.
The circumstances around this case are strange, and something I have seldom heard of. The description of the assault is very believable, which puts me in her corner, but the quasi amicable way they went their separate ways, just messes with my mind.

Of course, I may be well off base, as I have no idea what it is like, but I'm just not sure how calm and collected a person can be after being violently and repeatedly raped as is recounted in the article.
It's not the shower in itself that I find weird, because many victims do find it soothing, but doing it immediately while still in the presence of her assaulters, then calling a Uber for them all, going for drinks, then going to a friend before finally going to the police... it just brings doubt into play, which is not good for her.

As much as I want rapist scumbags in jail (and I really, really do!), I want even less someone innocent in jail.
False accusations are unfortunately too common. Whether out of shame, revenge, spite, etc... they do occur, and while it pains me that the guilty may get away scot-free, the burden of proof must be on the accusation. The more serious the accusation, more solid the evidence must be for a conviction that will put a person behind bars for a long time (or even to death in certain countries).

I wish there was some way to determine with a high degree of certainty if a person is lying, especially in cases such as this, where there may only be the words of one side against those of the other, because if they claim the rough sex was consensual, I am not sure how much forensic science has advanced to be able to distinguish the difference.

Regardless, if the prosecution has a solid case and they are proven guilty, fucking throw the book at them, and lock them up as long as possible. Hopefully they suffer the same treatment in jail to make it even sweeter.
Is it more common for women to accuse men of rape than it is for men to commit rape?
Our speculation is pointless. The case should rest on the physical evidence (which seems to be there in this case) and the credibility of the woman involved. I just hope that her testimony is not tainted by the judgemental attitudes that so many people seem to have.
“Oh she went to a flat on some bullshit excuse with 2 guys so she’s partly to blame. Oh she didn’t run crying into the street screaming for the cops so something is wrong with her story.” These are the arguments of the scumbag lawyers who have taught people that there’s always an excuse for shitty behaviour.
We don’t have to buy into it.
 

broncos4life

International Rep
16,900
10,572
Brisbane
Is it more common for women to accuse men of rape than it is for men to commit rape?
Our speculation is pointless. The case should rest on the physical evidence (which seems to be there in this case) and the credibility of the woman involved. I just hope that her testimony is not tainted by the judgemental attitudes that so many people seem to have.
“Oh she went to a flat on some bullshit excuse with 2 guys so she’s partly to blame. Oh she didn’t run crying into the street screaming for the cops so something is wrong with her story.” These are the arguments of the scumbag lawyers who have taught people that there’s always an excuse for shitty behaviour.
We don’t have to buy into it.
You can already she the rubbish time she will have in court and the tactics that the defence will go with based on some of the opinions in this thread.

Why would someone put themselves through all this if they were making it up? What would she have to gain?

Fair enough if they were in a relationship and she was being vindinctive, but being this vindictive over a one night stand?
 

Porthoz

International Captain
Staff
Is it more common for women to accuse men of rape than it is for men to commit rape?
Our speculation is pointless. The case should rest on the physical evidence (which seems to be there in this case) and the credibility of the woman involved. I just hope that her testimony is not tainted by the judgemental attitudes that so many people seem to have.
“Oh she went to a flat on some bullshit excuse with 2 guys so she’s partly to blame. Oh she didn’t run crying into the street screaming for the cops so something is wrong with her story.” These are the arguments of the scumbag lawyers who have taught people that there’s always an excuse for shitty behaviour.
We don’t have to buy into it.
WTF? Way to miss the point. I'm not blaming the victim, but I am also not about to judge and condemn without being absolutely sure of their guilt, something you seem to be prone to...

You can already she the rubbish time she will have in court and the tactics that the defence will go with based on some of the opinions in this thread.

Why would someone put themselves through all this if they were making it up? What would she have to gain?

Fair enough if they were in a relationship and she was being vindinctive, but being this vindictive over a one night stand?
Guilt, shame and regret are highly powerful motivators. There are plenty of examples of this. Seems like you've already made up your mind based on one article though. What the **** ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
 
Last edited:

broncos4life

International Rep
16,900
10,572
Brisbane
WTF? Way to miss the point. I'm not blaming the victim, but I am also not about to judge and condemn without being absolutely sure of their guilt, something you seem to be prone to...


Guilt, shame and regret are highly powerful motivators. There are plenty of examples of this. Seems like you've already made up your mind based on one article though. What the **** ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
No I haven't made up my mind and I haven't said he is guilty, for all I know based on the evidence we have been provided with is guilty of being a scumbag, possibly much more but possibly not.

What I am disputing is this insinuation that is being made that "oh she had a shower and didn't immediately run from the hotel screaming so she is making it up". As I have said there have been plenty of previous cases with similar actions after the fact (shower, acting like everything is ok until in a safe place) where the person has been raped, so I am arguing back against what some are suggesting.

Guilt, shame and regret are powerful motivators, absolutely, and that could be what is happening here. It has to be said though that this is a very traumatic experience to put yourself through with virtually no payoff if this is simply a way to deal with your regret. Going to the tabloids or privately approaching De Belin and/or the club for a payment would make a lot more sense to deal with shame and guilt then putting yourself through a rape kit, endless scrutiny, prolonged trauma and what will almost undoubtedly be a character assassination by the defense against her on the stand.
 

Nashy

International Captain
Staff
38,704
13,478
Brisbane
It's going to get very angry in here if you guys who are so convinced of the outcome don't calm down. You don't know, so starting to get angry at people who are arguing the opposite side is dumb, everyone knows the exact same amount of information.
 

Morkel

International Captain
Staff
20,580
16,824
I wish there was some way to determine with a high degree of certainty if a person is lying, especially in cases such as this, where there may only be the words of one side against those of the other, because if they claim the rough sex was consensual, I am not sure how much forensic science has advanced to be able to distinguish the difference.
This. It would be wonderful if there was a definitive way of finding out if people are lying. One problem is the "truth" is always very subjective. The same event witnessed by two people can be perceived very differently. Let's look theoretically at this situation - say the offender(s) are used to women being regularly attracted to them, willing to sleep with them, and going back to a private place almost always leads to sex. Now say that the offender quite regularly plays it a bit rough, and many women either enjoy it or don't speak up, that behavior can become normalised for the offender. On the other side though, the victim genuinely did not believe that going to a private place meant sex, especially as a different excuse was made to go there. They do not expect and do not consent to have sex, but effectively shut down in the process due to fear / survival instincts. They do what their instincts tell them to do to survive, and escape the situation without making their fear known. In this case, both version of events are 100% valid, despite being completely at odds.

As for straight up lies though, obviously results of lie detectors are not admissible in court. I used to think that if they were, like, 90% accurate, surely that's far more accurate than "he said, she said, who has the best lawyer". But then I remember that lie detector tests can be easily tricked, so that 90% accuracy would go way down if lawyers and coaching got involved.

Then of course you have the fabled drug-induced "truth serums" which may or may not exist. They probably do, however I'm sure there would be massive roadblocks on how ethical they would be to use etc.

Then you go tin foil hat (at least I do). Are there 99% reliable ways of finding out the truth, but they're not publicly disclosed because those in power, not just politicians, but industry leaders, rely on bullshit to keep themselves in power?
 

Browny

State of Origin Captain
8,774
2,682
Drunk
Wow Huge, victim blaming much.

Just guessing here but I would assume her injuries/bruising which generallyshows after a few days would corroborate her story.
 

Sproj

International Rep
Staff
15,100
7,802
Wow Huge, victim blaming much.

Just guessing here but I would assume her injuries/bruising which generallyshows after a few days would corroborate her story.
Is he victim blaming? I don't agree with a lot, perhaps most, of what Huge says and if he is victim shaming, I certainly DON'T agree here. BUT, I think it is understandable from the report that the going for drinks thing is strange.

I can certainly see that it could have been a survival / coping mechanism but I can also see that it does look strange on the surface without any further details on that point given, which I think is the point Huge is making.

He doesn't seem to be implying that it is her fault at all, simply that this point needs further clarification, this I agree with.
 
Last edited:

Huge

State of Origin Rep
6,996
3,995
Ipswich
WTF? Way to miss the point. I'm not blaming the victim, but I am also not about to judge and condemn without being absolutely sure of their guilt, something you seem to be prone to...


Guilt, shame and regret are highly powerful motivators. There are plenty of examples of this. Seems like you've already made up your mind based on one article though. What the **** ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
So on the money! What is it with people on here? Zero to 100. If you try to see things with balance then you are a misogynistic rapist supporting freak. Usually it's because people are not yet capable of a disinterested view.
 

Huge

State of Origin Rep
6,996
3,995
Ipswich
Wow Huge, victim blaming much.

Just guessing here but I would assume her injuries/bruising which generallyshows after a few days would corroborate her story.
Wtf? Victim blaming, **** off. The story as reported raises doubts and any defence would rightly point to that. Injuries and bruising can tell a story but can be obtained in a number of ways and for a variety of reasons. On the scant evidence so far to me it seems slightly more likely her story is true.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create free account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Login or Register

Forgot your password?
Don't have an account? Register now

Twitter

Top