NRL Players in hot water

Discussion in 'Rugby League Talk' started by Nashy, Nov 29, 2013.

    If the only evidence they have is what she's said, it's going to be pretty tough to convert the charge into a conviction.

    Really, I have no opinion either way, it's not at all fair to cast any aspersions on either side as no one here knows what happened that night. The only thing we do know is they all willingly went to that place together, after that it appears it's a case of he/she said. Whether that, along with any supporting evidence is enough to land a conviction, only time will tell. It is a very serious charge though, is he going to be allowed to play in the meantime? These cases can go a very long time.

    If there is enough evidence and he is convicted, he should be de-registered for life no questions asked, no matter what the actual court sentence is.
    abashii and Morkel like this.
  1. Alec

    Alec International Rep

    It seems like a lot of people seem to want her to be right. I can't agree with that, better for her to have made the story up, this way 2 people stay innocent and 1 didn't actually go through a traumatic experience.
  2. Of course he will, the NRL always allow players to play if they've plead not guilty. That's where a part of the problem lies.

    de Belin could be free to play a good chunk of the season after (allegedly) repeatedly raping a woman, yet Napa is apparently facing a suspension for having consensual sex. I don't really get it.
    broncos4life likes this.
    I'm not claiming otherwise nor passing judgement.
    The circumstances around this case are strange, and something I have seldom heard of. The description of the assault is very believable, which puts me in her corner, but the quasi amicable way they went their separate ways, just messes with my mind.

    Of course, I may be well off base, as I have no idea what it is like, but I'm just not sure how calm and collected a person can be after being violently and repeatedly raped as is recounted in the article.
    It's not the shower in itself that I find weird, because many victims do find it soothing, but doing it immediately while still in the presence of her assaulters, then calling a Uber for them all, going for drinks, then going to a friend before finally going to the police... it just brings doubt into play, which is not good for her.

    As much as I want rapist scumbags in jail (and I really, really do!), I want even less someone innocent in jail.
    False accusations are unfortunately too common. Whether out of shame, revenge, spite, etc... they do occur, and while it pains me that the guilty may get away scot-free, the burden of proof must be on the accusation. The more serious the accusation, more solid the evidence must be for a conviction that will put a person behind bars for a long time (or even to death in certain countries).

    I wish there was some way to determine with a high degree of certainty if a person is lying, especially in cases such as this, where there may only be the words of one side against those of the other, because if they claim the rough sex was consensual, I am not sure how much forensic science has advanced to be able to distinguish the difference.

    Regardless, if the prosecution has a solid case and they are proven guilty, **** throw the book at them, and lock them up as long as possible. Hopefully they suffer the same treatment in jail to make it even sweeter.
    Locky's Left Boot likes this.
  3. broncos4life

    broncos4life International Rep

    The amicable way they separated is fairly common. It’s a survival technique, people don’t want the perpetrator to think they will dob them in so they act like it is all ok.
    Morkel and Sirlee oldman like this.
  4. Maybe so but going for drinks after? Not keeping the Uber and going straight to the hospital/police? As long as justice is served I will be satisfied. It seems strange though. It just has an element of doubt from the reports.
  5. Sirlee oldman

    Sirlee oldman QCup Player

    Is it more common for women to accuse men of rape than it is for men to commit rape?
    Our speculation is pointless. The case should rest on the physical evidence (which seems to be there in this case) and the credibility of the woman involved. I just hope that her testimony is not tainted by the judgemental attitudes that so many people seem to have.
    “Oh she went to a flat on some bullshit excuse with 2 guys so she’s partly to blame. Oh she didn’t run crying into the street screaming for the cops so something is wrong with her story.” These are the arguments of the scumbag lawyers who have taught people that there’s always an excuse for shitty behaviour.
    We don’t have to buy into it.
    abashii, Morkel and soup like this.
  6. broncos4life

    broncos4life International Rep

    You can already she the rubbish time she will have in court and the tactics that the defence will go with based on some of the opinions in this thread.

    Why would someone put themselves through all this if they were making it up? What would she have to gain?

    Fair enough if they were in a relationship and she was being vindinctive, but being this vindictive over a one night stand?
  7. WTF? Way to miss the point. I'm not blaming the victim, but I am also not about to judge and condemn without being absolutely sure of their guilt, something you seem to be prone to...

    Guilt, shame and regret are highly powerful motivators. There are plenty of examples of this. Seems like you've already made up your mind based on one article though. What the **** ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  8. Tom

    Tom State of Origin Rep

    Were they leaked or read out in court though? Most courtrooms are public places.
    abashii likes this.
  9. broncos4life

    broncos4life International Rep

    No I haven't made up my mind and I haven't said he is guilty, for all I know based on the evidence we have been provided with is guilty of being a scumbag, possibly much more but possibly not.

    What I am disputing is this insinuation that is being made that "oh she had a shower and didn't immediately run from the hotel screaming so she is making it up". As I have said there have been plenty of previous cases with similar actions after the fact (shower, acting like everything is ok until in a safe place) where the person has been raped, so I am arguing back against what some are suggesting.

    Guilt, shame and regret are powerful motivators, absolutely, and that could be what is happening here. It has to be said though that this is a very traumatic experience to put yourself through with virtually no payoff if this is simply a way to deal with your regret. Going to the tabloids or privately approaching De Belin and/or the club for a payment would make a lot more sense to deal with shame and guilt then putting yourself through a rape kit, endless scrutiny, prolonged trauma and what will almost undoubtedly be a character assassination by the defense against her on the stand.
    Sirlee oldman likes this.
  10. Socnorb


    /published =Sucks being famous
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  11. broncos4life

    broncos4life International Rep

  12. It's going to get very angry in here if you guys who are so convinced of the outcome don't calm down. You don't know, so starting to get angry at people who are arguing the opposite side is dumb, everyone knows the exact same amount of information.
    Locky's Left Boot, Huge and soup like this.
  13. Morkel


    This. It would be wonderful if there was a definitive way of finding out if people are lying. One problem is the "truth" is always very subjective. The same event witnessed by two people can be perceived very differently. Let's look theoretically at this situation - say the offender(s) are used to women being regularly attracted to them, willing to sleep with them, and going back to a private place almost always leads to sex. Now say that the offender quite regularly plays it a bit rough, and many women either enjoy it or don't speak up, that behavior can become normalised for the offender. On the other side though, the victim genuinely did not believe that going to a private place meant sex, especially as a different excuse was made to go there. They do not expect and do not consent to have sex, but effectively shut down in the process due to fear / survival instincts. They do what their instincts tell them to do to survive, and escape the situation without making their fear known. In this case, both version of events are 100% valid, despite being completely at odds.

    As for straight up lies though, obviously results of lie detectors are not admissible in court. I used to think that if they were, like, 90% accurate, surely that's far more accurate than "he said, she said, who has the best lawyer". But then I remember that lie detector tests can be easily tricked, so that 90% accuracy would go way down if lawyers and coaching got involved.

    Then of course you have the fabled drug-induced "truth serums" which may or may not exist. They probably do, however I'm sure there would be massive roadblocks on how ethical they would be to use etc.

    Then you go tin foil hat (at least I do). Are there 99% reliable ways of finding out the truth, but they're not publicly disclosed because those in power, not just politicians, but industry leaders, rely on bullshit to keep themselves in power?
  14. Browny

    Browny State of Origin Captain

    Wow Huge, victim blaming much.

    Just guessing here but I would assume her injuries/bruising which generallyshows after a few days would corroborate her story.
  15. Sproj


    Is he victim blaming? I don't agree with a lot, perhaps most, of what Huge says and if he is victim shaming, I certainly DON'T agree here. BUT, I think it is understandable from the report that the going for drinks thing is strange.

    I can certainly see that it could have been a survival / coping mechanism but I can also see that it does look strange on the surface without any further details on that point given, which I think is the point Huge is making.

    He doesn't seem to be implying that it is her fault at all, simply that this point needs further clarification, this I agree with.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  16. Socnorb


    just making the point that if he wasn't famous none of this would be published.
  17. So on the money! What is it with people on here? Zero to 100. If you try to see things with balance then you are a misogynistic rapist supporting freak. Usually it's because people are not yet capable of a disinterested view.
    Wtf? Victim blaming, **** off. The story as reported raises doubts and any defence would rightly point to that. Injuries and bruising can tell a story but can be obtained in a number of ways and for a variety of reasons. On the scant evidence so far to me it seems slightly more likely her story is true.

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