NRL Players and family members in hot water

[Foordy]

Yeah but what could his undies possibly prove? He has already admitted they did the deed.

he hadn't at the time she stole them

 

[theshed]

Clearly, we need more information to come to light before we really get an idea what happened, I am sensing that people are simply just blaming the alleged victim, without knowing all the facts first.

It is entirely possible that this was buyer's remorse from the alleged victim.

it is also entirely possible that what she alleges regarding Hayne is 100% true and he did exactly what he has been accused of.

I don't like what has been said in here many times that if she was raped she bares some of the blame because she was drunk ... i'm sorry but that is total BS. she has just as much right to get totally blind drunk as the rest of us, and any scumbag that takes advantage of her (sexually or otherwise) is 100000000% to blame. We can't be giving these type of sub-humans any sort of excuses ... there is none.

I'm also not sure I buy the fact that she was a athlete groupie (for lack of a better term) and that was the reason she was with Hayne that night, as while he is a big star in Australia and received intense media coverage for his attempt at the NFL; he would have been an unknown or at least lessor name in the US.

From Haynes public image over here it is possible that his ego couldn't handle either the rejection or the fact that she passed out before he got some, so he just took it anyway.

now there is the other side that either she had buyer's remorse or decided that she could make some easy money from Hayne by laying a complaint/commencing a civil lawsuit against him. and if that is the case that is a really low act that can ruin a mans reputation and/or family.

although if she was looking for a quick buck, her choice of target was surprising because he was on a low wage over in the NFL.

While I completely agree that it is unforgivable to knowingly take advantage of a woman who is heavily under the influence of alcohol. It opens up such a huge legal grey area with no happy solution. How drunk is too drunk? Pass out or 2 beers? If you can give a rigid answer to that question then my next question is - to what extent do you take into account how drunk the male was?

If he was equally inebriated are both parties the victims and perpetrators of a sex crime? do they receive equal punishment?
If both are too drunk to consent but only one eventually feels uncomfortable about it, is the person experiencing retrospective unwillingness the victim while the equally inebriated party now a sex criminal? Is it a matter of gender where despite how drunk both or either party is, that the responsibility for the action fall onto the male?

As a male, I just don't think the risk is worth it anymore but everyday literally thousands if not millions of people are having sex for the first time while intoxicated. It is a legal minefield that is so hard to think of a right answer too.

Either the laws are too lax and people don't have the protection or justice they deserve, or the law is too strict and things like consent that is followed by regret could potentially see a lot of decent people be branded as criminal. At the moment it really seems like crapshoot, and a problem to which I can not see a solid answer.

 

[Browny]

So I’m assuming she’s being charged for the theft of his reg grundies

 

[tommy]

If her civil case fails she could probably sell them to Gould or Fittler for a fortune.

 

[Browny]

If her civil case fails she could probably sell them to Gould or Fittler for a fortune.

Now that’s a visual I’ve always wanted

 

[Porthoz]

Great grey area exploration. Kudos to you.

The real problem is the alcohol in my opinion. We’re all too lax on its dangers and propensity to cause harm whether criminal, physical, emotional, health or wealth.

Totally agree!

Of course there is a gigantic grey area when it comes to sex under the influence, and I definitely don't have a solution, but making recreational drugs a taboo and putting a blanket ban on alcohol for young people , like Australia and most other Anglo-Saxon countries do, instead of teaching its responsible use, is the main culprit imo.

While every country has problems with alcohol abuse, nowhere is the issue as big as England, US, Australia, etc... amongst youth, because kids will find a way to get it, and without supervision, won't learn the dangers of its abuse.

 

[Thelmus]

The problem with alchohol is when it's used as crutch against assuming responsibility for reckless or bad behaviour. Personal responsibility for your actions includes making sure you are capable of making responsible decisions, regardless of what you have consumed. I have no time for men that drink too much and either hit their wives/girfriends afterwards, or take a women to bed whether she's willing or not. Those things can not be mitigated, not by their intoxination and certainly not by the girl's intoxication. Blaming a girl for drinking too much in such a situation demonstrates predatory behaviour as an acceptable course. It is NOT.
That said. When two people are drunk, the presumption of a reasonable account of events occurred is hard to determine, and I think, harder to prove. People recovering from a heavy night, believe what they want sometimes, as opposed to facing up to their own inadequacies in the face of intoxication.

 

[john1420]

The problem with alchohol is when it's used as crutch against assuming responsibility for reckless or bad behaviour. Personal responsibility for your actions includes making sure you are capable of making responsible decisions, regardless of what you have consumed. I have no time for men that drink too much and either hit their wives/girfriends afterwards, or take a women to bed whether she's willing or not. Those things can not be mitigated, not by their intoxination and certainly not by the girl's intoxication. Blaming a girl for drinking too much in such a situation demonstrates predatory behaviour as an acceptable course. It is NOT.
That said. When two people are drunk, the presumption of a reasonable account of events occurred is hard to determine, and I think, harder to prove. People recovering from a heavy night, believe what they want sometimes, as opposed to facing up to their own inadequacies in the face of intoxication.

I've always taken the approach that if you're drunk, you are responsible for being drunk, therefore you must be held responsible for your actions whilst drunk

 

[john1420]

While I completely agree that it is unforgivable to knowingly take advantage of a woman who is heavily under the influence of alcohol. It opens up such a huge legal grey area with no happy solution. How drunk is too drunk? Pass out or 2 beers? If you can give a rigid answer to that question then my next question is - to what extent do you take into account how drunk the male was?

If he was equally inebriated are both parties the victims and perpetrators of a sex crime? do they receive equal punishment?
If both are too drunk to consent but only one eventually feels uncomfortable about it, is the person experiencing retrospective unwillingness the victim while the equally inebriated party now a sex criminal? Is it a matter of gender where despite how drunk both or either party is, that the responsibility for the action fall onto the male?

As a male, I just don't think the risk is worth it anymore but everyday literally thousands if not millions of people are having sex for the first time while intoxicated. It is a legal minefield that is so hard to think of a right answer too.

Either the laws are too lax and people don't have the protection or justice they deserve, or the law is too strict and things like consent that is followed by regret could potentially see a lot of decent people be branded as criminal. At the moment it really seems like crapshoot, and a problem to which I can not see a solid answer.

Spot on, and I was preparing to write basically the same thing, but you beat me to it, and probably wrote it better :)

 

[john1420]

.........I don't like what has been said in here many times that if she was raped she bares some of the blame because she was drunk ... i'm sorry but that is total BS. she has just as much right to get totally blind drunk as the rest of us, and any scumbag that takes advantage of her (sexually or otherwise) is 100000000% to blame. We can't be giving these type of sub-humans any sort of excuses ... there is none............

It really comes down to your definition of rape here

If she was drunk and consented to sex and doesn't remember now because she was drunk (and maybe even only consented in the first place because she was drunk) then she wasn't raped at all

If she was forced into sex, then I don't care how drunk she was, it wasn't her fault and the bloke is a criminal that should go to prison

As for "..... any scumbag that takes advantage of her (sexually or otherwise) is 100000000% to blame....." this is highly debatable. If her level of alcohol consumption excuses her behavior, why doesn't the male get the same excuse? If 2 people are drunk, why is it the male's responsibility to exercise good judgement and determine that the female is "too drunk" to consent? Sorry, but that's flat out bullshit.

 

[Porthoz]

As for "..... any scumbag that takes advantage of her (sexually or otherwise) is 100000000% to blame....." this is highly debatable. If her level of alcohol consumption excuses her behavior, why doesn't the male get the same excuse? If 2 people are drunk, why is it the male's responsibility to exercise good judgement and determine that the female is "too drunk" to consent? Sorry, but that's flat out bullshit.

How many men can even perform the act while actually blind drunk? I'm sure most of us have done the beer goggle deed, but I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to not remember it the next day...

I think most people here are talking about the predatory behaviour of people whom take advantage of severely inebriated women (mostly that is, although this is sometimes the case with men of course), to have their way with them, and use the excuse of the fuzzy memory in case the person they abused isn't too ashamed to make a complaint.

 

[theshed]

How many men can even perform the act while actually blind drunk? I'm sure most of us have done the beer goggle deed, but I don't think I've ever been drunk enough to not remember it the next day...

I think most people here are talking about the predatory behaviour of people whom take advantage of severely inebriated women (mostly that is, although this is sometimes the case with men of course), to have their way with them, and use the excuse of the fuzzy memory in case the person they abused isn't too ashamed to make a complaint.

I really don't want my comments to sound like I'm defending Hayne or predatory behaviour. Because I'm definitely not.

That being said, I have to disagree with your first paragraph. I have most definitely had sex while black out drunk, and awoken with little to no memory of the event, with
women under circumstances that I would not have consented to sober.

Like all men, I pushed the shame and disgust deep inside and made jokes about it to my friends to cover my actual feelings of the event.

 

[holdzy]

Can we have done with this shit now? Or do we need six more pages of men discussing rape and drunk womens' culpability? Let's wait now and see what comes of the issue at hand.

 

[Huge]

Can we have done with this shit now? Or do we need six more pages of men discussing rape and drunk womens' culpability? Let's wait now and see what comes of the issue at hand.

No, you can stop pushing your crap agenda and exercise your right to not read any further. I hope we have another hundred pages discussing the issue. How do you know all the posters are men and why are you slurring the posters ? Drunk women's culpability , what shit you write.

 

[Porthoz]

I really don't want my comments to sound like I'm defending Hayne or predatory behaviour. Because I'm definitely not.

That being said, I have to disagree with your first paragraph. I have most definitely had sex while black out drunk, and awoken with little to no memory of the event, with
women under circumstances that I would not have consented to sober.

Like all men, I pushed the shame and disgust deep inside and made jokes about it to my friends to cover my actual feelings of the event.

I don't think anyone is excusing predators, but some more than others are so inebriated with the white male victimisation, they can't see the trees through the forest...

P.S. How do you know you performed the act, instead of it being performed on you, if you can't recall anything? Your feelings on the matter after the fact say it all really... because this shit also happens to men, but society looks upon women quite differently from men under these circumstances.

 

[theshed]

How do you know you performed the act, instead of it being performed on you, if you can't recall anything?

Sorry, I don't quite understand the question. There are a couple ways that I feel it can be interpreted and would like to have clarity on your intended meaning before I answer.

 

[holdzy]

No, you can stop pushing your crap agenda and exercise your right to not read any further. I hope we have another hundred pages discussing the issue. How do you know all the posters are men and why are you slurring the posters ? Drunk women's culpability , what shit you write.

Lol you're special, Huge.

Real special.

Hands up the number of women commenting in this thread?

 

[holdzy]

Two?