Religion and Politics

soup

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I’m pretty surprised at the ignorance on this topic in general, especially with the opinions being expressed from those who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about in practice. One of my best mates is a cross-dresser. He is NOT mentally unwell. In fact, he has a large, beautiful family of children and is more successful professionally than just about any BHQ member here. I should add, he loves life, everyone around him and everyone adores him. Especially after acceptance.

If you can’t think and speak with compassion and understanding on a topic, shut the **** up!
 
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kooly87

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Bernie is a raving lunatic, you really don't want him to be president.

I hope Trump wins again in 2020, I can't stand the left these days.
Yep, asking corporations to pay their fair share of tax (or even the same rate as the lowest income earners in the country pay for a start) and wanting universal healthcare for all are truly the ideas of a raving lunatic.
 

kooly87

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My issue is less with Bernie as an individual and more with the modern left, especially in America
(Although I still think Bernie is crazy).

It feels like I'm in the minority these days, is anyone else sick of the left being a mouthpiece for social justice warriors? Like genuinely, the left 20 years ago was completely different, I considered myself on the left growing up, but I must say I feel significantly closer aligned to the right in 2020.
This is entirely normal, it happens to a lot of people in the Western world. The older you get, the more wealth and stuff you acquire, the less you are inclined to want to give back any of that wealth or stuff to society.
 

soup

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I’m pretty surprised at the ignorance on this topic in general, especially with the opinions being expressed from those who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about in practice. One of my best mates is a cross-dresser. He is NOT mentally unwell. In fact, he has a large, beautiful family of children and is more successful professionally than just about any BHQ member here. I should add, he loves life, everyone around him and everyone adores him. Especially after acceptance.

If you can’t think and speak with compassion and understanding on a topic, shut the **** up!
I’m gonna add to this for complete transparency.

He was mentally unwell prior to ‘coming out’. He was the bloke who I stopped from killing himself last year. Guess what happened? He told his closest friends and family and he’s not skipped a beat since. That wasn’t the only reason he nearly topped himself (he lost his daughter to SIDS on his watch 6 years ago), but it certainly compounded things.
 

kooly87

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I notice you regularly mention economics and monetary figures in your list of reasons why Sanders would be a better option than Trump.

How do you explain the record highs in the American economy since Trump took over? The stock market? The unemployment rate? Average wages? Among plenty of other vast economic improvements that America has enjoyed under Trump.

How do you propose Sanders is going to do a better job?
You're conflating economic growth with being a panacea for all the very serious and in some cases dire current economic problems facing the majority of Americans.

This is from Forbes in response to Trump and his self praising of the current economy:

To begin with, while the current expansion may be the longest on record, it is also the weakest. Since 2009, the economy has grown by only 25%, which compares poorly against the much shorter periods of expansion in the 1980s and the 1990s, which grew by 38% and 43% respectively. Even the record low unemployment rate is also not what it seems. One key reason for low unemployment is because people are dropping out of the labor force, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. This means that many American workers, chiefly the less educated and low skilled, have become so discouraged that they have simply given up looking for a job. The economy is not creating jobs that they can fill, while companies are complaining about shortages of skilled workers. As a result, households’ finance remains extremely precarious; a shocking four in ten American adults would not be able to cover an unexpected $400 expense with cash or saving, according to research by the Federal Reserve. As troubling as these economic findings are, the fragility of the U.S. economy runs even deeper.

High debt and low investment are an albatross around the U.S. economy’s neck. Corporate debt in the U.S. has reached $9.4 trillion—equivalent to 46% of GDP, according to the Federal Reserve, which matches the previous peak set in 2007 just before the global financial crisis erupted. Business investment, on the other hand, has remained flat despite the Trump tax cuts, which between 2016 and 2018 roughly halved the effective tax rate for companies on the S&P 500.

This combination of rising debt and low investment is bewildering given the tremendous increase in cash flow to the corporate sector, which the IMF estimates has doubled in S&P 500 companies since 2010. What has corporate America done with its wave of incoming cash? Mostly buy back its own shares. The IMF estimates that S&P 500 companies’ spending on share buybacks as a percentage of assets is double what it was in 2010. Such unproductive spending props up equity valuations while doing nothing to improving economic dynamism.
 

Huge

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You're conflating economic growth with being a panacea for all the very serious and in some cases dire current economic problems facing the majority of Americans.

This is from Forbes in response to Trump and his self praising of the current economy:

To begin with, while the current expansion may be the longest on record, it is also the weakest. Since 2009, the economy has grown by only 25%, which compares poorly against the much shorter periods of expansion in the 1980s and the 1990s, which grew by 38% and 43% respectively. Even the record low unemployment rate is also not what it seems. One key reason for low unemployment is because people are dropping out of the labor force, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. This means that many American workers, chiefly the less educated and low skilled, have become so discouraged that they have simply given up looking for a job. The economy is not creating jobs that they can fill, while companies are complaining about shortages of skilled workers. As a result, households’ finance remains extremely precarious; a shocking four in ten American adults would not be able to cover an unexpected $400 expense with cash or saving, according to research by the Federal Reserve. As troubling as these economic findings are, the fragility of the U.S. economy runs even deeper.

High debt and low investment are an albatross around the U.S. economy’s neck. Corporate debt in the U.S. has reached $9.4 trillion—equivalent to 46% of GDP, according to the Federal Reserve, which matches the previous peak set in 2007 just before the global financial crisis erupted. Business investment, on the other hand, has remained flat despite the Trump tax cuts, which between 2016 and 2018 roughly halved the effective tax rate for companies on the S&P 500.

This combination of rising debt and low investment is bewildering given the tremendous increase in cash flow to the corporate sector, which the IMF estimates has doubled in S&P 500 companies since 2010. What has corporate America done with its wave of incoming cash? Mostly buy back its own shares. The IMF estimates that S&P 500 companies’ spending on share buybacks as a percentage of assets is double what it was in 2010. Such unproductive spending props up equity valuations while doing nothing to improving economic dynamism.
That's pretty damning. Trump promised a 4% growth yet barely achieved half with 2.3%. He promised to build a wall and make someone else pay. I didn't think it was a great idea so I'm pleased he didn't. The US is in a poor state and a lot of their problems can be traced back to low taxation. American citizens genuinely believe they pay high taxes. I heard some saying they were one of the highest taxed peoples in the world. You'd think none of them have heard of google.

Their crazy notions about 'freedom' (which Jim Jeffries took the piss about) really got the states in a mess. Gun infestation, terrified police, rampant crime, armed militia, healthcare in the toilet and massive homelessness are only part of the problems which can be linked to courts upholding certain rights. The yanks could do with a little less rights and freedoms.
 

Socnorb

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I’m gonna add to this for complete transparency.

He was mentally unwell prior to ‘coming out’. He was the bloke who I stopped from killing himself last year. Guess what happened? He told his closest friends and family and he’s not skipped a beat since. That wasn’t the only reason he nearly topped himself (he lost his daughter to SIDS on his watch 6 years ago), but it certainly compounded things.
Nice.
 

Unbreakable

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I’m gonna add to this for complete transparency.

He was mentally unwell prior to ‘coming out’. He was the bloke who I stopped from killing himself last year. Guess what happened? He told his closest friends and family and he’s not skipped a beat since. That wasn’t the only reason he nearly topped himself (he lost his daughter to SIDS on his watch 6 years ago), but it certainly compounded things.
That's anecdotal though to be fair..

There will no doubt be people who's mental health improves by coming out / getting hormone replacement therapy / getting the complete sex change surgery.. but the data shows that in the overall scheme of things, it barely changes the suicide attempt rate. Pre-surgery transgenders and post-surgery transgenders have an almost identical attempt rate. Further lending itself to being a severe mental illness rather than just a "gender preference" or "societal constructs forcing them to be something they're not".

And to the answer the questions on the last page from Socnorb Socnorb about "Why I care so much" because it "doesn't affect me or anyone I know".. That's my entire point, it doesn't affect me, or most people at the moment. BUT if the left gets their way it will quite literally be considered a hate crime to refer to someone as the wrong pro-noun. That affects not only me, but everyone in the western world. Plus I also care about it because I feel genuinely sorry for these people, they've been convinced that they're perfectly fine and that it's societies issues that are making them feel isolated, when in actual fact they're feeling isolated because they're not getting the proper treatment or being properly educated on what's wrong with them. I think it's genuinely comparable to if society suddenly deemed schizophrenia as a preference, not a mental illness.
 

soup

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That's anecdotal though to be fair..

There will no doubt be people who's mental health improves by coming out / getting hormone replacement therapy / getting the complete sex change surgery.. but the data shows that in the overall scheme of things, it barely changes the suicide attempt rate. Pre-surgery transgenders and post-surgery transgenders have an almost identical attempt rate. Further lending itself to being a severe mental illness rather than just a "gender preference" or "societal constructs forcing them to be something they're not".

And to the answer the questions on the last page from Socnorb Socnorb about "Why I care so much" because it "doesn't affect me or anyone I know".. That's my entire point, it doesn't affect me, or most people at the moment. BUT if the left gets their way it will quite literally be considered a hate crime to refer to someone as the wrong pro-noun. That affects not only me, but everyone in the western world. Plus I also care about it because I feel genuinely sorry for these people, they've been convinced that they're perfectly fine and that it's societies issues that are making them feel isolated, when in actual fact they're feeling isolated because they're not getting the proper treatment or being properly educated on what's wrong with them. I think it's genuinely comparable to if society suddenly deemed schizophrenia as a preference, not a mental illness.
Mate, I’m shocked tbh. I feel it’s not worth continuing this particular discussion as it just gives breath to further ignorance.
 

Nashy

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Mate, I’m shocked tbh. I feel it’s not worth continuing this particular discussion as it just gives breath to further ignorance.
Why is he ignorant and you aren't though? Plenty of arguments on both sides of it, having an emotional attachment to someone shouldn't stop a discussion about a topic because it's a little taboo in 2020.
 

Sirlee oldman

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That's anecdotal though to be fair..

There will no doubt be people who's mental health improves by coming out / getting hormone replacement therapy / getting the complete sex change surgery.. but the data shows that in the overall scheme of things, it barely changes the suicide attempt rate. Pre-surgery transgenders and post-surgery transgenders have an almost identical attempt rate. Further lending itself to being a severe mental illness rather than just a "gender preference" or "societal constructs forcing them to be something they're not".

And to the answer the questions on the last page from Socnorb Socnorb about "Why I care so much" because it "doesn't affect me or anyone I know".. That's my entire point, it doesn't affect me, or most people at the moment. BUT if the left gets their way it will quite literally be considered a hate crime to refer to someone as the wrong pro-noun. That affects not only me, but everyone in the western world. Plus I also care about it because I feel genuinely sorry for these people, they've been convinced that they're perfectly fine and that it's societies issues that are making them feel isolated, when in actual fact they're feeling isolated because they're not getting the proper treatment or being properly educated on what's wrong with them. I think it's genuinely comparable to if society suddenly deemed schizophrenia as a preference, not a mental illness.
A hate crime to refer to someone by the wrong pronoun...seriously you need to wake up to yourself.
 

soup

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Why is he ignorant and you aren't though? Plenty of arguments on both sides of it, having an emotional attachment to someone shouldn't stop a discussion about a topic because it's a little taboo in 2020.
Mate, if you can’t see the futility of the conversation, don’t worry. I can and do not wish to feed it for the damage it can do. It’s exactly because of opinions like these that people like my mate do seriously walk the path towards suicide.
 
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Unbreakable

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A hate crime to refer to someone by the wrong pronoun...seriously you need to wake up to yourself.



1581584290189.png

Literally just facts mate.

We're more at risk in Australia as well, at least the United States has the 2nd Amendment protecting them with free speech, we don't have that. This isn't some fairy tale, people are literally losing jobs over calling someone the wrong pronoun.
 

soup

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View attachment 7118

Literally just facts mate.

We're more at risk in Australia as well, at least the United States has the 2nd Amendment protecting them with free speech, we don't have that. This isn't some fairy tale, people are literally losing jobs over calling someone the wrong pronoun.
Yeah, that’s pretty dumb, I completely agree.
 

Unbreakable

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Mate, if you can’t see the futility of the conversation, don’t worry. I can and do not wish to feed it for the damage it can do.
It's not uncommon, I've seen plenty of debates about this, the second scientific studies and data start being presented the debate quickly spirals in to yelling and name calling, or they just give up.

It’s exactly because of opinions like these that people like my mate do seriously walk the path towards suicide.
Once again, I'll point you to the study I posted on the last page about transgenders having a higher suicide attempt rate than the slaves in the United States and jewish people in Auschwitz. Do you believe modern day transgenders and people with gender dysphoria suffer more abuse and persecution than those groups of people?... I personally don't, but hey, that's just my opinion.
 

soup

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It's not uncommon, I've seen plenty of debates about this, the second scientific studies and data start being presented the debate quickly spirals in to yelling and name calling, or they just give up.



Once again, I'll point you to the study I posted on the last page about transgenders having a higher suicide attempt rate than the slaves in the United States and jewish people in Auschwitz. Do you believe modern day transgenders and people with gender dysphoria suffer more abuse and persecution than those groups of people?... I personally don't, but hey, that's just my opinion.
I think it’s beside the point. The internal conflict of someone struggling with their identity with nobody to talk to about it (especially in an ignorant community with prejudices like rural towns and cities) is a hell most of us are spared from.

It seems you want genders to be binary, but biologically that’s not even true.
 

soup

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Also, it was once a fact that the earth was flat. Our understandings can evolve over time and with experience, as long as it’s not swept under the rug.
 

Unbreakable

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It seems you want genders to be binary, but biologically that’s not even true.
Oh really?.. Please elaborate.

And don't bother mentioning obvious outliers, like people born Intersex.

Edit: Also, gender is what the left calls the "societal construct", you must be thinking of sex. Might need to dust up on your terminology if you want to be a true SJW. 😂
 
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soup

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Oh really?.. Please elaborate.

And don't bother mentioning obvious outliers, like people born Intersex.

Edit: Also, gender is what the left calls the "societal construct", you must be thinking of sex. Might need to dust up on your terminology if you want to be a true SJW. 😂
Mate, I’m no SJW. I just stand up for people I know who have real struggles.
So you are saying intersex people are not valid humans?
 

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