Religion and Politics

Unbreakable

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Mate, I’m no SJW. I just stand up for people I know who have real struggles.
I know they have real struggles, people cuddling them and saying "It's ok, it's society's fault you feel like an outsider" really aren't helping them.

So you are saying intersex people are not valid humans?
Another thing the left is phenomenal at, putting words in your mouth.

You said gender (sex) is non-binary, I asked you to elaborate. I mentioned people who were born Intersex because that's a common argument on the left, but it's actually not, it's a statistical anomaly that is incredibly rare, it doesn't add anything to the argument that sex is biologically non-binary.

And further to that, the vast majority of people who are born Intersex have features predominantly leaning one way or the other in terms of sex (brain size, bone structure, genitalia, etc.)

Edit: I actually need to do some work now so I can spend the weekend watching the Nines, but happy to continue the convo at a later date if anyone wants to add their 2 cents. I don't think this discussion should be anywhere as near as hostile as it's portrayed to be, it's a discussion about science at it's core.
 
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soup

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I know they have real struggles, people cuddling them and saying "It's ok, it's society's fault you feel like an outsider" really aren't helping them.



Another thing the left is phenomenal at, putting words in your mouth.

You said gender (sex) is non-binary, I asked you to elaborate. I mentioned people who were born Intersex because that's a common argument on the left, but it's actually not, it's a statistical anomaly that is incredibly rare, it doesn't add anything to the argument that sex is biologically non-binary.

And further to that, the vast majority of people who are born Intersex have features predominantly leaning one way or the other in terms of sex (brain size, bone structure, genitalia, etc.)

Edit: I actually need to do some work now so I can spend the weekend watching the Nines, but happy to continue the convo at a later date if anyone wants to add their 2 cents. I don't think this discussion should be anywhere as near as hostile as it's portrayed to be, it's a discussion about science at it's core.
Rubbish, it’s a self-satisfying generalisation that you are stroking your ego with at the cost of others. Nothing to do with science.

Speaking of facts, as almost one in every two Australians experience mental illness in their life, it’s pretty convenient to apportion mental illness to be the primary factor in causation of social or sexual ‘deviations’ from the historic norm.
 
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Unbreakable

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Last reply for tonight, I need to stop procrastinating :L

Rubbish, it’s a self-satisfying generalisation that you are stroking your ego with at the cost of others. Nothing to do with science.
It has quite literally everything to do with science, the entire basis of my side of the argument is science, biology & biological psychology. Your side of the argument is the one that throws all of that out the window.

Speaking of facts, as almost one in every two Australians experience mental illness in their life, it’s pretty convenient to apportion mental illness to be the primary factor in causation of social or sexual ‘deviations’ from the historic norm.
Transgenderism & Gender Dysphoria aren't 'social' or 'sexual' deviations...
 

soup

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Last reply for tonight, I need to stop procrastinating :L



It has quite literally everything to do with science, the entire basis of my side of the argument is science, biology & biological psychology. Your side of the argument is the one that throws all of that out the window.



Transgenderism & Gender Dysphoria aren't 'social' or 'sexual' deviations...
My brain is absolute mush from this flu mate. I’m actually embarrassed at how poorly I’m arguing this tbh. Time to have a lay down and leave this for another day when 90% of my brain cells haven’t been blown out my nose.
 

soup

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My main point here is that we should see the person, value them for their intentions, not the packaging.

As for all the political correctness garbage, I agree. It should be sent out to sea and set on fire.
 

Dash

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Oh really?.. Please elaborate.

And don't bother mentioning obvious outliers, like people born Intersex.

Edit: Also, gender is what the left calls the "societal construct", you must be thinking of sex. Might need to dust up on your terminology if you want to be a true SJW. 😂
If it's possible for someone to be born physically intersex, why can't it be possible for someone to be born psychologically intersex?
 

Porthoz

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My main point here is that we should see the person, value them for their intentions, not the packaging.

As for all the political correctness garbage, I agree. It should be sent out to sea and set on fire.
I think this post sums my thoughts up perfectly.

I guess it depends on one's definition of illness or disease, but I don't consider these gender/sexual deviations a disease anymore than someone one the autism spectrum. They deserve respect and recognition as different human beings, period.

Your second paragraph is what is really being discussed here, and is merely one example of the many shots in the foot from parties in the centre/left pandering to the SJW idiots... which the right is taking advantage of, especially through the well oiled alt right propaganda machine.
 
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Broncapz

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I guess it depends on one's definition of illness or disease, but I don't consider these gender/sexual deviations a disease anymore than someone one the autism spectrum. They deserve respect and recognition as different human beings, period.
I'm not a fan of how broad the Autism spectrum is. You have people that a perfectly functioning members of society, and then down to people that will never be independent or talk in their life.

I think having the spectrum so broad really diminishes the support that people on the more extreme end of the spectrum get.

Because of this, we get things like 'Autism is a super power' which is great for kids/people on the lighter end of the spectrum, but feels like total bullshit for people struggling caring for someone on the extreme end.
 

Unbreakable

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If it's possible for someone to be born physically intersex, why can't it be possible for someone to be born psychologically intersex?
Because doctors have scans and tests they can run to determine the make-up of your brain. There is a discernible difference in the average brain of a male and the average brain of a female, there is no 'middle ground' in regards to the brain, scientifically speaking. Even people born Intersex have one or the other, and develop as such.

Do you want to know the only time where transgenders have been proven to have that of a similar brain to the opposite sex? When they've had hormone replacement therapy prior to puberty. That's right, there's people out there who are willing to give children as young as 6 years old the ability to make that decision, I watched a video the other day of an 8 year old that was given the choice to get the sex change surgery, they allowed it. It's genuinely sickening what they're doing to these kids.

Don't even get me started on the parents raising their children as "Theybies" either. Disgusting.
 

Broncapz

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I watched a video the other day of an 8 year old that was given the choice to get the sex change surgery, they allowed it. It's genuinely sickening what they're doing to these kids.
I agree protections must be in place to protect children from engaging in non-reversable plastic surgery.

What Trump/other established candidates have failed to do is protect children in others ways. i.e school lunch debt, crazy medical and student debt. The system is rigged to put as many people in debt as possible, with that money funneled to the very few, while the biggest earners end up avoiding paying the same relative tax that small-medium businesses pay.

For some of these kids, school lunch is the only real meal they'll eat all day.
 
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Dash

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Because doctors have scans and tests they can run to determine the make-up of your brain. There is a discernible difference in the average brain of a male and the average brain of a female, there is no 'middle ground' in regards to the brain, scientifically speaking. Even people born Intersex have one or the other, and develop as such.
Doesn't the term "average" imply there is variation in each brain? Could there not be outliers closer to the opposite sex, or people who fall half way between?
 

Unbreakable

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Doesn't the term "average" imply there is variation in each brain? Could there not be outliers closer to the opposite sex, or people who fall half way between?
There is small variations yeah. But I mean very small, I've never seen anything even remotely suggesting it's possible to have a brain that's 50% male traits and 50% female traits.

Even if there was such a thing, it has no correlation to transgenderism, all the studies have shown that male to female transitioners have a male brain, and vice versa, unless there's hormonal intervention prior to puberty (which also causes a litany of other problems mind you).
 

I bleed Maroon

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This stuff is all an offshoot of the continuing myth that children are incapable of thinking for themselves, or making well thought out decisions. I've got some news for you parents: There is a very good likelihood that your 13 year old is already smarter than you are, if not as mature. They spend every waking hour glued to some form of technology, not just rotting their brains on social media, but also doing research on serious topics out of nothing but raw curiosity. And by doing so, they discover things about themselves and the world around them that they didn't even know before.

In short, they are adapting themselves to be what they want to be far, far faster than you ever did. And guess what: giving your own child the benefit of the doubt will go a long way for both you and them.
 
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Unbreakable

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Who's voting Patty Condren tomorrow for Lord Mayor?

He's got my vote. I met him about 6 months ago at some random public event, he took the the time out of his day to stop and chat with us for about 15 minutes about random shit in the area we'd like fixed or changed, seems like a pretty genuine bloke.
 

Thelmus

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China is guilty of a lot of things but this virus isn't one of them. Whatever they had done to cover it up on a local level was soon reversed by the national government. The WHO had full access to data in January.
Its now the end of March. For 8 weeks a lot of the world just watched thinking it was china's problem. Some even criticised their containment policies as Human Rights abuses. But guess what? They are with a handful of countries that got it right, reacted early and effectively. South Korea and Japan are other examples.
We had two months to prepare with centralised national health planning, an acquiescing public, and a strong economy to whether this.
We started to take public measures 2 weeks ago. We were still going to the footy and sending our kids to school whilst the extent of the crisis was laid bare in China and elsewhere.
I think we are still better placed than a lot of places to cope with this. Whilst the government was later responding than I would have liked it at least been effective mostly.
Ill credit Scomo (a man I find generally repulsive) in that he has killed a few liberal party sacred cows along the way. No longer can he talk about the labor deficit with a straight face as when needs must, we have just increased our national debt by a third and no one is talking about restraint. When the majority of people have to live on welfare he reacted quickly to correct its miserly payment.
He also compensated companies to maintain current employees at the same amount per person. This will hopefully offer gateway back into work when this is all over.
Compare this to the US or worse Brazil and we look pretty good. President balsinaro should be in prison for what has done there and even the most rapid trump supporter will be finding it hard to support trumps response to this crisis if only because he doesn't know himself what to do and vacillates daily whilst hard working nurses and doctors put their lives on the line and public officials get into auction house bidding for basic PPE.
When this is all over there will be a great many lessons learned. The only question will be if we have paid attention.
 

Porthoz

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Ill credit Scomo (a man I find generally repulsive) in that he has killed a few liberal party sacred cows along the way. No longer can he talk about the labor deficit with a straight face as when needs must, we have just increased our national debt by a third and no one is talking about restraint.
Imagine this happening right at the end of a labor govt period, right after they spent most of the national reserves pandering to the greens and SJWs, taking the country in the red instead of having a surplus...

Half the measures we see now, which may well be the difference between a short recession and a full blown financial depression, would simply not be possible.
 

Porthoz

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The amount we just spent eclipses that debt several times over at a time we are literally making no money. Indeed the debt actually increased under abbot and we are still in the process of offering tax cut to multinational corporations as of today under Morrison.
Don't take me for a LNP supporter, because I'm far from that.
What labor does pandering to the greens and SJWs, the LNP does to appease their religious/conservative factions. I've got no love for either...

I was just making a point about the need to focus on economy and a healthy GDP, even if that comes at the expense of some social reforms, especially of the more extreme SJW / environmental type.
A balance is extremely important, and we seem to lack that in Australian politics...
 

Allo

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Don't take me for a LNP supporter, because I'm far from that.
What labor does pandering to the greens and SJWs, the LNP does to appease their religious/conservative factions. I've got no love for either...

I was just making a point about the need to focus on economy and a healthy GDP, even if that comes at the expense of some social reforms, especially of the more extreme SJW / environmental type.
A balance is extremely important, and we seem to lack that in Australian politics...
The liberals are far worse economic managers. They continually sell out the country to make a quick buck for anyone but the country they by virtue should serving.

They create structural deficits and let companies steal from the public. Any talk of ‘surpluses’ is a myth
 

Dash

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Imagine this happening right at the end of a labor govt period, right after they spent most of the national reserves pandering to the greens and SJWs, taking the country in the red instead of having a surplus...

Half the measures we see now, which may well be the difference between a short recession and a full blown financial depression, would simply not be possible.
What utter horseshit. The LNP has been in power since 2013, and the deficit has increased from $260 billion to $540 billion.
 

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