Round 19 Discussion

[holdzy]

So, is it only winning a gf that would show WB was a current(methodology etc) coach and not a coach who the game has left behind?

I thought exiting the finals in the first game was his downfall? Now his team is deep into the finals and that's still not evidence enough that he's up to the job of leading a modern rugby league team?

You see, at the time he was sacked/left it was the prevailing wisdom on this forum that WB was 'past it' but I disagreed with that belief. I think he's already proven, yet again that he is still very much a modern coach.

We, the Broncos should have honoured his contract and seriously considered his request to add a year to it before seeing him transition to CD. Surely we wouldn't be the horrible mess we are now.

I think the fact he hasn't won a comp in ten years is telling in and of itself.

Whether he is current/old school is irrelevant. Getting it done is what counts. We should have let him have 2019, yes. The urgency to replace him was odd - that said, we were losing the same way over and over, back to back embarrassing finals exits.

As I said, he's at the same stage as Seibold in 2018. Time to go one better, yes?

 

[Huge]

I think the fact he hasn't won a comp in ten years is telling in and of itself.

Whether he is current/old school is irrelevant. Getting it done is what counts. We should have let him have 2019, yes. The urgency to replace him was odd - that said, we were losing the same way over and over, back to back embarrassing finals exits.

As I said, he's at the same stage as Seibold in 2018. Time to go one better, yes?

You do know that 15 out 16 coaches don't win a competition each year? I'd say there'd be a lot of coaches who haven't won a competition in the last ten years and I wouldn't actually describe it as 'telling'. I'd expect it and consider it normal.

The old school/ new school thing was always irrelevant and I never believed it was actually a thing but it definitely was a theme on here and that's really why I mentioned it. I'd just like to see those who were adamant that WB was an anachronism admit they were wrong.

 

[holdzy]

You do know that 15 out 16 coaches don't win a competition each year? I'd say there'd be a lot of coaches who haven't won a competition in the last ten years and I wouldn't actually describe it as 'telling'. I'd expect it and consider it normal.

The old school/ new school thing was always irrelevant and I never believed it was actually a thing but it definitely was a theme on here and that's really why I mentioned it. I'd just like to see those who were adamant that WB was an anachronism admit they were wrong.

Wayne Bennett is held to different standards, rightly or wrongly. Success is an indicator as to whether he is past it or not. You can hang on to see people admit they were wrong according to your standards if you wish - but the people going 'see, I was right about Wayne' need to wait until he actually wins something imo. Then, by all means, rub it in. Until then, it's just repetitious failure when it truly counts.

 

[lynx000]

I think you are all missing Huge's point again. He has not suggested that WB getting them to a preliminary final disproves the argument that WB is past it and does not understand the modern game blah blah blah. Correct me if I am wrong @Huge, the point he is making is that the manner in which he has Souths playing proves that he is not past it and that he still has his finger on the pulse of the modern game.

From the outside looking in, I think a fair bit of credit has to go to Demetriou for their form, but clearly they are a true coaching team, WB is a big part of that team and clearly he is not past it given the way he has that side playing after losing some big names and with what was regarded as being a weaker pack at the start of the year.

 

[holdzy]

I think you are all missing the Huge's point again. He has not suggested that WB getting them to a preliminary final disproves the argument that WB is past it and does not understand the modern game blah blah blah. Correct me if I am wrong @Huge, the point he is making is that the manner in which he has Souths playing proves that he is not past it and that he still has his finger on the pulse of the modern game.

From the outside looking in, I think a fair bit of credit has to go to Demetriou for their form, but clearly they are a true coaching team, WB is a big part of that team and clearly he is not past it given the way he has that side playing after losing some big names and with what was regarded as being a weaker pack at the start of the year.

'the' Huge???

 

[lynx000]

'the' Huge???

Typo, sorry, I have been up since 4:00 am.

 

[holdzy]

Typo, sorry, I have been up since 4:00 am.

That's one explanation. Freudian slip?

Anyway - Wayne was arguably 'past it' at the Broncos, no? Could not find the solution, moved on to a better roster overall and is doing well. Is close, but no doughnut yet.

 

[Kimlo]

That's one explanation. Freudian slip?

Anyway - Wayne was arguably 'past it' at the Broncos, no? Could not find the solution, moved on to a better roster overall and is doing well. Is close, but no doughnut yet.

The flip side to the argument is he had a wooden spoon team playing finals every year and having the second highest winrate overall during his tenure here.

I guess you can flip the argument anyway you like, sure he has a better team at Souths, but what "good" coach doesn't? Bellamy has an embarrassment of riches and no injuries, Robinson has an infinite cap and practically a superstar in every position, only injuries really levelled them this year.

It's an argument that'll never end, whether a coach is good because of his team or vice versa but I'm firmly in the camp of Bennett should have stayed until we found someone who was proven to be as good or better.

That being said, I'm really happy with Kevvie getting the gig, so I'm no longer a disgruntled pissed off Broncos fan. I'm actually excited to see what Kevvie can do with the team next year. Seibold was a disaster, he wasn't a shocking choice at the time, but it was shocking management to rush to sign a coach who was a year in. It was the equivalent of signing a promising rookie to a 5 year 5 million dollar deal.

 

[holdzy]

The flip side to the argument is he had a wooden spoon team playing finals every year and having the second highest winrate overall during his tenure here.

I guess you can flip the argument anyway you like, sure he has a better team at Souths, but what "good" coach doesn't? Bellamy has an embarrassment of riches and no injuries, Robinson has an infinite cap and practically a superstar in every position, only injuries really levelled them this year.

It's an argument that'll never end, whether a coach is good because of his team or vice versa but I'm firmly in the camp of Bennett should have stayed until we found someone who was proven to be as good or better.

That being said, I'm really happy with Kevvie getting the gig, so I'm no longer a disgruntled pissed off Broncos fan. I'm actually excited to see what Kevvie can do with the team next year. Seibold was a disaster, he wasn't a shocking choice at the time, but it was shocking management to rush to sign a coach who was a year in. It was the equivalent of signing a promising rookie to a 5 year 5 million dollar deal.

Agree with pretty much all that. The only distinction I can make is the good coaches you referenced have won the comp in the last decade. I put Bennett well above them personally - but - he hasn't won anything for quite a while. He's still a top coach, no doubt. But whatever he is doing isn't resulting in premierships. That's all.

 

[Kimlo]

Agree with pretty much all that. The only distinction I can make is the good coaches you referenced have won the comp in the last decade. I put Bennett well above them personally - but - he hasn't won anything for quite a while. He's still a top coach, no doubt. But whatever he is doing isn't resulting in premierships. That's all.

And that's a fair take too. It's not like coaching is some objectively measurable ability, if it was, clubs wouldn't have such a hard time finding the right coach. There's no point for either side to crow about being right or wrong, it is what it is, I don't take joy in being right if my team gets the spoon, I'd rather be wrong and us be in week 3 of the finals. It fucking sucks to be the wooden spoon team but I'm optimistic Kevvie can restore pride to the joint to get us back in the finals but it won't be an easy road and getting the spoon may be the catalyst for the back office in the club to wake the **** up.

I'm not sold on Kev's coaching ability but I love him as a Broncos fan, and he comes across as a genuinely good guy so damn it would be sweet to see him have some success. He's the classic example of doing the hard yards and persevering until you get your dream job.

 

[holdzy]

And that's a fair take too. It's not like coaching is some objectively measurable ability, if it was, clubs wouldn't have such a hard time finding the right coach. There's no point for either side to crow about being right or wrong, it is what it is, I don't take joy in being right if my team gets the spoon, I'd rather be wrong and us be in week 3 of the finals. It fucking sucks to be the wooden spoon team but I'm optimistic Kevvie can restore pride to the joint to get us back in the finals but it won't be an easy road and getting the spoon may be the catalyst for the back office in the club to wake the **** up.

I'm not sold on Kev's coaching ability but I love him as a Broncos fan, and he comes across as a genuinely good guy so damn it would be sweet to see him have some success. He's the classic example of doing the hard yards and persevering until you get your dream job.

We will all get behind Kevvie, no doubt about it.