The controversial thread

Huge

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I suffered disgusting acts of physical and emotional abuse as a child at the hands of a man and woman, though usually the man. They did it for fun and actually had me brainwashed to believe I deserved everything that happened to me. The cowards actually timed it perfectly and stopped doing it around the age of 14 just as I was getting big enough to hit back. Worst thing is I suppressed most of the worst memories for a couple of decades and treated them with dignity and respect that whole time. Point being it's not something you hold against everyone, just the particular cowards who did it. I think if you are getting triggered by random strangers making harmless jokes then you have deeper problems and possibly need professional help. There is only a small minority of people who do it and to tar everyone with the same brush is unfair. Nobody (as far as I'm aware) has said DV against women isn't a serious issue, people are just sick of the double standards being displayed in the media.

In fact I have heard women making the same joke as Huge and substituting the word man for woman, I didn't find it offensive, it's not an offensive joke.
I know you don't often agree with me Tom and my abrasive ways often alienate but I liked this post and the joke a two fold, firstly it's an answer to a question not asked and secondly no sane person could possibly believe the response was serious. I thought I must have been missing something with Morkel's unhinged reaction but you've reassured me and for that I'm grateful.
 
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Tom

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I know you don't often agree with me Tom and my abrasive ways often alienate but I liked this post and the joke a two fold, firstly it's an answer to a question not asked and secondly no sane person could possibly believe the response was serious. I thought I must have been missing something with Morkel's unhinged reaction but you've reassured me and for that I'm grateful.
I probably agree with you more often than you think, I just don't bother piping up and saying so. The world needs allsorts to keep turning.
 

Huge

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I probably agree with you more often than you think, I just don't bother piping up and saying so. The world needs allsorts to keep turning.
****, I like you even more now, didn't think that possible :risas3:
 
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Browny

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Apparently Gillette deleted a scene in their ad where a black rapper was objectifying a woman. I won't bother guessing why but I'm sure everyone can have a guess.
He wasn’t rapping Baby It’s Cold Outside?
 

Unbreakable

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Apparently Gillette deleted a scene in their ad where a black rapper was objectifying a woman. I won't bother guessing why but I'm sure everyone can have a guess.
Yeah I saw a video on YouTube highlighting that, it also made me realise that it essentially made every white person a villain or portrayed them in an evil light and made every black person a hero figure. After watching that I thought the ad was more racist than sexist.

It's the same deal as feminism, which has become about demonising men purely for being men. The black lives matter and racial equality activists have made it so that it's no longer about helping black people, it's about hurting white people.

Gillette did a great job illustrating what is severely wrong with these type of groups right now, they're hurting people more than they're helping.

Shit needs to stop.
 

holdzy89

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Yeah I saw a video on YouTube highlighting that, it also made me realise that it essentially made every white person a villain or portrayed them in an evil light and made every black person a hero figure. After watching that I thought the ad was more racist than sexist.

It's the same deal as feminism, which has become about demonising men purely for being men. The black lives matter and racial equality activists have made it so that it's no longer about helping black people, it's about hurting white people.

Gillette did a great job illustrating what is severely wrong with these type of groups right now, they're hurting people more than they're helping.

Shit needs to stop.
What a load of shit. You need to consider the opposition to these groups. As far as the black lives matter group, they have been met by the rise of white fascists and white terrorists in the U.S. It’s not about ‘hurting white people’ at all, what an appallingly simplistic reduction, same with feminists to men. Feminism has been met by incels, and Trump style misogyny. Of course there are vocal minorities within these groups, as there are in all groups, who give good causes a bad name. But it’s not a majority at all, and the damage is more often than not annoyance, usually on social media. Drama queens like you try to suggest it’s an epidemic or some shit, at the expense of actual issues and actual outcomes.
 

Kimlo

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Yeah it probably wasn’t required, but it is sort of creepy to start following some stranger down the street to try and pick them up.
Is it REALLY though?

I mean if they're going to actually follow them like a creep, fair enough. Is stopping someone to talk to them creepy? Of course it's not, that's ridiculous. If I see a woman and I'm interested in talking to her, what do I do? Send a letter through Auspost and wait 5-8 business days and hope I get a reply? There's nothing wrong with approaching a woman in public, nothing at all.

There's a million wrong ways to approach, a lot of creepy ways and a lot of downright dickhead ways but the actual act of approaching someone to talk them is basic humanity. We see people, we talk to them, they have every right to tell us to **** off, which 99.9% of people would promptly **** off after.

Nothing in that is exclusive to men either, sure women won't walk up to a random guy in the street but they sure as shit will inbox guys on social media, sit next to them in a university class and make small talk, etc. There's nothing wrong with any of that. If a woman is legitimately offended about a guy respectfully approaching her then she needs to get off her fucking high horse IMO.

If the video actually showed her saying go away or not interested and then a guy stepped in, sure it's great. Stopping him from even approaching her? That's fucking dumb.
 

holdzy89

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Is it REALLY though?

I mean if they're going to actually follow them like a creep, fair enough. Is stopping someone to talk to them creepy? Of course it's not, that's ridiculous. If I see a woman and I'm interested in talking to her, what do I do? Send a letter through Auspost and wait 5-8 business days and hope I get a reply? There's nothing wrong with approaching a woman in public, nothing at all.

There's a million wrong ways to approach, a lot of creepy ways and a lot of downright dickhead ways but the actual act of approaching someone to talk them is basic humanity. We see people, we talk to them, they have every right to tell us to **** off, which 99.9% of people would promptly **** off after.

Nothing in that is exclusive to men either, sure women won't walk up to a random guy in the street but they sure as shit will inbox guys on social media, sit next to them in a university class and make small talk, etc. There's nothing wrong with any of that. If a woman is legitimately offended about a guy respectfully approaching her then she needs to get off her fucking high horse IMO.

If the video actually showed her saying go away or not interested and then a guy stepped in, sure it's great. Stopping him from even approaching her? That's fucking dumb.
She’s walking down the street..maybe on the way to work, who knows? Doesn’t seem like an appropriate context imo. I think I covered this better in a later post to the one you chose to quote. In this context, it is a little creepy to follow a stranger down the street to hit on them. Imo. I wouldn’t do it. I also don’t think it’s a ‘high horse’ to perhaps have an expectation of walking out in public without being hit on, or followed in order to be hit on. Which is what was portrayed. If the guy says “hey girl” and she stops to chat, fair game.
 

holdzy89

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You know, from a marketing POV, this advert was incredibly successful in creating a dialogue between the target market regarding the subject.

Art (of all types) only becomes successful when the audience engages.
I think that might have been the intention, they probably predicted some controversy (maybe not this much though).

Not sure how it will translate into razor sales though.
 

Unbreakable

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What a load of shit. You need to consider the opposition to these groups. As far as the black lives matter group, they have been met by the rise of white fascists and white terrorists in the U.S.
If you think Neo-Fascists and (more directly) Neo-Nazi's are a legitimate opposition to black lives matter in the U.S right now then you're either delusional or severely uneducated on the subject..

There has been extremely isolated incidents involving white supremacist members or groups acting out at BLM rallies or in retaliation to BLM propaganda, but if you want to discuss statistics, I'd love to know what number of white Neo-Nazi's you think are actively combating BLM right now in the U.S.

BLM has almost no opposition in the mainstream, because most white people in power are too scared to stand against it. We know for a fact that most politicians won't, they can't afford to lose the black vote. The only opposition I can think of that sprung up in recent time was that brief stint of "All Lives Matter", which died out pretty fast (And in essence still isn't actually an opposition of BLM, as it inherently includes BLM.)

The last real form of organised Neo-Fascism in the U.S died out with the National Alliance in 2005, any that remain are more often that not small, unorganised congregations and of little consequence to the juggernaut that is BLM. In fact the largest organised Neo-Fascism group in the U.S right now is the National Socialist Movement (NSM) which has about 400 members across 32 states.

You're part of the problem, overselling how evil the white devil is.
 

abashii

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Okay, so I'm watching it again.

I'll make some time-stamped examples of what I don't like.

:24-:28 he's making uncalled for sexual advances and it shows both some boys and a big group of male adults all laughing universally.
:36, boys fighting - which by the way I think is totally fine. - Every single man in a huge group at this BBQ all saying "boys will be boys". Was this a negative thing? If it's play fighting there's nothing wrong with that. If it's seriously two kids punching on over a disagreement you're not going to get all the adults laughing and saying cool boys will be boys. It's assuming men are dumb and don't care about their own kids.
:58-:1:02 - guy approaches women, we don't know their intention but they show a guy stopping them, why? We shouldn't be afraid of talking to women. If they were showing actual disrespect and a guy stepped in, fair enough.

The rest of it is fine, it's encouraging better behaviour and more people to step in and be better role models for the current and future generations.

Mind you if this was produced by an organisation committed to social good, I'd be far less cynical. This is Gillette, the guys who are a sister company of Nestle all under the P&G group. These guys rape and pillage the environment, use Palm Oil in record numbers because it's good for profits and source products from environments where child labour is almost certainly happening but they turn a blind eye.

So yes, it annoys the **** out of me when a for profit brand who would rape and pillage every area of earth, abuse anything they can legally get away with, use their profits to lobby politicians for favourable legislation at the expense of actual communities where they operate want to pretend to care about social harmony in an ad where the only real motive is to improve brand image to boost sales.
I rewatched the scenes you listed just to be sure, and they just didn't strike me as implying that men in large social groups do that sort of thing. The bit we're they're all barbecuing especially strikes me as a shot set for artistic effect as opposed to a condemnation of all men for displaying that attitude. I can certainly understand how it says that to you though, even though it doesn't to me.

I don't disagree with your point about pretty much every OmniGlobalMegaCorp being a pack of evil cunts. But even then, perhaps naively I admit, it strikes me as more likely that the message they were trying to send is attitudes do evolve and we can do better as opposed to implying all men do these things or are collectively guilty. It just doesn't seem like the best strategy ever to call your target customers a pack of bastards. But again I can understand why people view it the other way around given the heated environment surrounding this issue in general.

Not sure where we can really have any further productive discussions from here, other than to acknowledge that your opinion doesn't mean you're actually a knuckle-dragging throwback and mine doesn't mean I have to finally admit that my ex wife got my balls in the settlement and I make up for my shrivelled phallus by white-knighting women on the internet.
 

holdzy89

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If you think Neo-Fascists and (more directly) Neo-Nazi's are a legitimate opposition to black lives matter in the U.S right now then you're either delusional or severely uneducated on the subject..

There has been extremely isolated incidents involving white supremacist members or groups acting out at BLM rallies or in retaliation to BLM propaganda, but if you want to discuss statistics, I'd love to know what number of white Neo-Nazi's you think are actively combating BLM right now in the U.S.

BLM has almost no opposition in the mainstream, because most white people in power are too scared to stand against it. We know for a fact that most politicians won't, they can't afford to lose the black vote. The only opposition I can think of that sprung up in recent time was that brief stint of "All Lives Matter", which died out pretty fast (And in essence still isn't actually an opposition of BLM, as it inherently includes BLM.)

The last real form of organised Neo-Fascism in the U.S died out with the National Alliance in 2005, any that remain are more often that not small, unorganised congregations and of little consequence to the juggernaut that is BLM. In fact the largest organised Neo-Fascism group in the U.S right now is the National Socialist Movement (NSM) which has about 400 members across 32 states.

You're part of the problem, overselling how evil the white devil is.
I’m not over selling anything. And I’m not talking strictly Charlottesville style opposition, I’m also referring to the MAGA crowd, the pasty white Republican Party and so on that take offence to the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and retort with ‘white lives matter (too)’.

Anyway, who gives two shits what you think about racism, you got banned for it here ya muppet.
 

Kimlo

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Not sure where we can really have any further productive discussions from here, other than to acknowledge that your opinion doesn't mean you're actually a knuckle-dragging throwback and mine doesn't mean I have to finally admit that my ex wife got my balls in the settlement and I make up for my shrivelled phallus by white-knighting women on the internet.
Man you make me laugh, fucking excellent.

I definitely acknowledge that it may not be their intention and I'm simply seeing my own message, that's possible. We've all got a bias whether we are conscious of it or not. I think a few people could agree to disagree, I don't necessarily fully agree with either side of this particular topic but we can all respect that we see things slightly differently.

In the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer a society where people are called on to do better, even if it's controversial than a society where openly being rude and racist is totally okay which wasn't that long ago and seems to be heading back towards that too in many ways. The world's a mess but at least we can all do our part to be better people. The fact that we're arguing about an ad like this only tells me we've got it pretty fucking good in this country because damn is this shit trivial in the grand scheme of things compared to most other places on earth.
 

Kimlo

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She’s walking down the street..maybe on the way to work, who knows? Doesn’t seem like an appropriate context imo. I think I covered this better in a later post to the one you chose to quote. In this context, it is a little creepy to follow a stranger down the street to hit on them. Imo. I wouldn’t do it. I also don’t think it’s a ‘high horse’ to perhaps have an expectation of walking out in public without being hit on, or followed in order to be hit on. Which is what was portrayed. If the guy says “hey girl” and she stops to chat, fair game.
Fair enough, I'm going to leave the discussion there. For the record, I agree with heaps of what you have to say in this topic I've only really discussed the parts I don't fully agree with.

Obviously there's a lot of context and subtleties that matter and a 1 second clip of a commercial is going to be perceived differently by different people. Plenty of creepy fucks out there for sure, I just don't want otherwise good people to be dissuaded from approaching others, I've heard of too many guys who are shit scared to approach a woman because they feel like creeps and I think that's a negative for society on the whole but that's a totally different topic for another day.
 

Tom

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Man you make me laugh, fucking excellent.

I definitely acknowledge that it may not be their intention and I'm simply seeing my own message, that's possible. We've all got a bias whether we are conscious of it or not. I think a few people could agree to disagree, I don't necessarily fully agree with either side of this particular topic but we can all respect that we see things slightly differently.

In the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer a society where people are called on to do better, even if it's controversial than a society where openly being rude and racist is totally okay which wasn't that long ago and seems to be heading back towards that too in many ways. The world's a mess but at least we can all do our part to be better people. The fact that we're arguing about an ad like this only tells me we've got it pretty fucking good in this country because damn is this shit trivial in the grand scheme of things compared to most other places on earth.
What a perfect way to end the discussion.

 

holdzy89

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Fair enough, I'm going to leave the discussion there. For the record, I agree with heaps of what you have to say in this topic I've only really discussed the parts I don't fully agree with.

Obviously there's a lot of context and subtleties that matter and a 1 second clip of a commercial is going to be perceived differently by different people. Plenty of creepy fucks out there for sure, I just don't want otherwise good people to be dissuaded from approaching others, I've heard of too many guys who are shit scared to approach a woman because they feel like creeps and I think that's a negative for society on the whole but that's a totally different topic for another day.
Totally agree. As much as incels and the like disgust me, I also pity them. We are in a confused time and place as a people, but we should opt for behaviours that promote the positive, where possible. Too much prejudice, subtle and otherwise in the world. Respect for being civil in disagreement.
 
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Unbreakable

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I’m not over selling anything. And I’m not talking strictly Charlottesville style opposition, I’m also referring to the MAGA crowd, the pasty white Republican Party and so on that take offence to the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and retort with ‘white lives matter (too)’.
Would hardly call that a hard opposition in any sense of the word, which is what you're alluding to. The reason that BLM is so anti-white is because of the such fierce opposition they're getting from white neo-fascists? That's absurd. I'll give you a hint as to why a solid percentage of BLM members are so anti-white.. it's because they don't like white people..

Anyway, who gives two shits what you think about racism, you got banned for it here ya muppet.
How do I even respond to this? I'm not sure why people on here always have to resort to trying to disparage and discredit other members when they're losing a debate, that's something that Trump does, who is evidently someone you despise, it's rather ironic.

Just take the discussion for what it is, two people talking.
 

holdzy89

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Would hardly call that a hard opposition in any sense of the word, which is what you're alluding to. The reason that BLM is so anti-white is because of the such fierce opposition they're getting from white neo-fascists? That's absurd. I'll give you a hint as to why a solid percentage of BLM members are so anti-white.. it's because they don't like white people..



How do I even respond to this? I'm not sure why people on here always have to resort to trying to disparage and discredit other members when they're losing a debate, that's something that Trump does, who is evidently someone you despise, it's rather ironic.

Just take the discussion for what it is, two people talking.
Your argument is flimsy and built on supposition. I understand your point of view, the White Man is under attack, and serious damage is being done to them. It’s bullshit. Feminists and blacks are out to get us!

As for the last point, it’s fair game. You were banned for a dumb and racist comment. ‘Losing the debate’ lol according to who? I’m saying your views on black and white relations need to be taken with a grain of salt. Black lives matter are anti white cops for the most part..care to venture a guess why? And we have Trump, refusing to condem white supremecists because, you know, they are a large portion of his support base.
 

Unbreakable

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Your argument is flimsy and built on supposition.
So is yours to be fair, thinking that BLM members are overtly racist because of the opposition of white neo-fascists and MAGA supporters is just an egregious standpoint.

Black lives matter are anti white cops for the most part..care to venture a guess why?
They started out as being almost exclusively anti-white cops, absolutely, much like feminism started out being about speaking out against men who are perpetrators of domestic violence, now it's just speaking out against men.

And we have Trump, refusing to condem white supremecists because, you know, they are a large portion of his support base.
You won't catch me supporting Trump in regards to that, he should've condemned them the second Charlottesville occurred.
 
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