The Macca Issue

PNG Broncos fan88

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How do you know if Seibold knows or not? We’ve had no halves for 3 weeks. It’s what seibold does once a halfback is available that will show the full story.
Still he could have had Segeyaro play 80. Why waste a bench spot on rake when we could have an outside back or a forward handy?
Once Gillett returns, Carrigan or Flegler drops out because of this. Even Perese would suit the team better incase of HIA instead of Macca.
 

007

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The Longer Macca stays in the starting side the less I want Seibold as the coach, I get that he has a 3 year contract (and paying him out would be suicide for our staff budget as that has a cap now as well) and there has been a tonne of movement in the side this year, but he has offloaded alot better players and seems unwilling with the biggest dead weight in the team.
You realise we have the following guys injured who are potential for the halves alone:
SOS
Dearden
Bird
Milford (to some extent and hes also plugging the void that Boyd is at 1)

Boyd is plugging number 6, yet isnt even playing as a 6. We have no option but to have the big mac in the side at the moment. It would political suicide to boot him right now.
 

Foordy

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Still he could have had Segeyaro play 80. Why waste a bench spot on rake when we could have an outside back or a forward handy?
Once Gillett returns, Carrigan or Flegler drops out because of this. Even Perese would suit the team better incase of HIA instead of Macca.
your hero wouldn't have even bothered signing Segeyaro.

when Macca was fit he was guaranteed to play 80. on the rare occassions when Macca couldn't go 80, then Moose or Glenn would fill in.

when Macca was injured, he would start with Moose and bring Turps off the bench.

Couldn't Bennett just take one more of our rejects
 

theshed

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Still he could have had Segeyaro play 80. Why waste a bench spot on rake when we could have an outside back or a forward handy?
Once Gillett returns, Carrigan or Flegler drops out because of this. Even Perese would suit the team better incase of HIA instead of Macca.
Seggy was pouring lattes a couple weeks ago. He rarely played 80 minute games during his career, surely he isn’t up for it now.

I want Macca gone as much as anyone but rebuilds are slow and painful processes. I’ll wait and see how we lined up round 1 next year before I start making strong judgements on Seibold.
 

PNG Broncos fan88

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your hero...
Get over your Seibold v Bennett agenda mate.
Clouding your judgement in every argument you make.
- Merged

Seggy was pouring lattes a couple weeks ago. He rarely played 80 minute games during his career, surely he isn’t up for it now.
Every ISC expert on here said the same about Turpin. But guess what he can play 80 just fine at rake and at half. Im sure the Dally M winning hooker can do 80 just fine without cramping after serving lattes 3 weeks months ago.
 
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Locky888

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Parker, Hodges and Ennis are not so subtle on Fox. The whole world knows except Seibold.
Get over it guys, we are stuck with him till 2021.
That's what I'm afraid of. Hooksy, Griffin, WB didn't figure it out. Seibold may follow the trend.
 
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Big Pete

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A couple of plays stood out to me on Saturday.

In the first half when the Broncos were being bent over, Milford got an offload away to McCullough to open up space out-wide. McCullough spends a good second to assess the situation, spots the attack has plenty to space to maneuver in but instead of giving it, he stammers and hands it back inside to Turpin who gets dominated in the tackle. Next play, Milford has to beat two defenders just to get a kick away and the Warriors begin their set 35m out from their try-line.

That second try to Issac Luke came off the back of two defensive lapses from McCullough. The first the Warriors caught him out at second marker by turning it back inside to Nikorima who beat him for pace and created half a chance for Ah Mau. Then the next play he rushes up on Green but doesn't even consider taking him, falls for the dummy and the Warriors were able to expose Pangai who had a mare of a defensive performance himself. It was cruel what Kodi was doing to Tevita in that first half.

Attacking the line two plays stand out. Tackle 3, Brisbane lined out to the right where they've got Blair, Nikorima and Hiku defending together and Macca plays short to Carrigan who was doing a decoy run. Brisbane get a reprieve later on with another set of six, McCullough sends it out-wide but actually throws it behind Turpin who has to jump for it, Pangai has to stop then start his run and actually makes decent head-way. Couple of plays later, Turpin has his regulatory brain explosion of the game ending what should have been Brisbane's opportunity to hit back and go into half-time with some belief.

What Segeyaro does differently is that he works with his halves more. It probably hasn't been as effective as it should be at the Broncos just yet, but you can understand why the fans notice a change. His actual service though is very iffy, he threw the worst pass of the night and was lucky the Broncos got a good result off of it.
 

Footy Fanatic

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A couple of plays stood out to me on Saturday.

In the first half when the Broncos were being bent over, Milford got an offload away to McCullough to open up space out-wide. McCullough spends a good second to assess the situation, spots the attack has plenty to space to maneuver in but instead of giving it, he stammers and hands it back inside to Turpin who gets dominated in the tackle. Next play, Milford has to beat two defenders just to get a kick away and the Warriors begin their set 35m out from their try-line.

That second try to Issac Luke came off the back of two defensive lapses from McCullough. The first the Warriors caught him out at second marker by turning it back inside to Nikorima who beat him for pace and created half a chance for Ah Mau. Then the next play he rushes up on Green but doesn't even consider taking him, falls for the dummy and the Warriors were able to expose Pangai who had a mare of a defensive performance himself. It was cruel what Kodi was doing to Tevita in that first half.

Attacking the line two plays stand out. Tackle 3, Brisbane lined out to the right where they've got Blair, Nikorima and Hiku defending together and Macca plays short to Carrigan who was doing a decoy run. Brisbane get a reprieve later on with another set of six, McCullough sends it out-wide but actually throws it behind Turpin who has to jump for it, Pangai has to stop then start his run and actually makes decent head-way. Couple of plays later, Turpin has his regulatory brain explosion of the game ending what should have been Brisbane's opportunity to hit back and go into half-time with some belief.

What Segeyaro does differently is that he works with his halves more. It probably hasn't been as effective as it should be at the Broncos just yet, but you can understand why the fans notice a change. His actual service though is very iffy, he threw the worst pass of the night and was lucky the Broncos got a good result off of it.
Difference between Segeyaro and McCullough is that while he has his shortcomings, he actually is a threat in attack and gets our forwards rolling like McCullough can't.

McCullough has always been a terrible decision making in the attacking 20 (just watch the 2015 grand final...) but now he is even less effective as his defence is not good enough to counteract that.
 

something

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Difference between Segeyaro and McCullough is that while he has his shortcomings, he actually is a threat in attack and gets our forwards rolling like McCullough can't.

McCullough has always been a terrible decision making in the attacking 20 (just watch the 2015 grand final...) but now he is even less effective as his defence is not good enough to counteract that.
Yeah I think it’s telling when we are leaking more points when our “defensive” hooker is on the field, especially considering that they’re fresh.
 

Big Pete

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What concerns me is that for all this talk of Turpin and Segs' improving the attack, it hasn't really shown on the scoreboard.

If you look at all the time these two have been at dummy half, these are the amount of points that have come about.

26 vs. Manly
15 vs. Sydney
8 vs. Warriors
4 vs. Parramatta
6 vs. Newcastle
12 vs. Cronulla
6 vs. Warriors

Don't get me wrong, the Broncos aren't getting enough out of dummy half, but I don't think Turpin or Segs are really banging the door down either.

Segs' has a much better running game, but I also think he puts his supports in two minds. They never know when to expect the pass, which was illustrated in the dying seconds against the Warriors.
 

Alec

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I liked what I've seen from Turpin more than Seg or Macca. I think he needs a decent run to settle in his role as the main hooker, and then we can start to assess him further. He's got heart and sometimes he he tries to do too much, but hopefully he'll settle a bit with that extended run.
 

Allo

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What concerns me is that for all this talk of Turpin and Segs' improving the attack, it hasn't really shown on the scoreboard.

If you look at all the time these two have been at dummy half, these are the amount of points that have come about.

26 vs. Manly
15 vs. Sydney
8 vs. Warriors
4 vs. Parramatta
6 vs. Newcastle
12 vs. Cronulla
6 vs. Warriors

Don't get me wrong, the Broncos aren't getting enough out of dummy half, but I don't think Turpin or Segs are really banging the door down either.

Segs' has a much better running game, but I also think he puts his supports in two minds. They never know when to expect the pass, which was illustrated in the dying seconds against the Warriors.
We had three games of no McCullough (five if you count last season) and 3 (5) wins. McCullough comes back and we lose three straight and look as lethargic and dogshit as we previously did. Other factors like Dearden aside, it's obvious to everyone, even every other clubs' fans, that we look better without him. The points we scored were enough to win those games, and at this stage that's all that really matters. Turpin and/or Segeyaro are the best options we have currently, so we should use them properly and give them a legitimate shot of cementing their spot/s. I'm not suggesting throwing 3-5 year contracts at them and saying that's job done looking for a hooker after 5 or 6 games, but let them prove they deserve to be the immediate future.

Don't forget how raw Turps still is. His 'regulatory brain explosion' as you put it is typical of someone of his experience. And if anything it comes from over-enthusiasm, which I'm happy to take every day of the week over incompetence. He makes things happen, and really outside of a couple of bad decisions here and there and the 'mare he had v Parra (and what player hasn't had a bad game), he's had a hugely positive impact on the team and how we play and I 100% believe we don't win the games we did if it was only McCullough playing.

Turpin had 29 minutes vs the Knights and we were already down 18-6. Turpin in the halves vs the Sharks, Segeyaro the second half, we get outscored 14-12. With 3 hookers playing, you cannot hold that against them (including McCullough in this case). And we outscored the Warriors during the time Segeyaro was playing, granted not enough to win, but we still played better in that time and we get a point. Out of these games we have one half of football with a legitimate half and we outscore 12-8. Along with Milford doing 90% of the kicking from fullback. So points scored cannot be fairly judged with other games from the first half of the season

It may seem like the pro-Turpin crowd go overboard, but the at-least half-decade of staleness has caused any positive change to be met with overwhelming support.

Honestly I hate this type of bet-hedging post that parades as critical analysis.
 

Maddy1to9

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We absolutely can't take the game against Dogs lightly. The sad part for mine is - we tend to take games like these lightly and loose our way/momentum in the season. We must win this to build on confidence and ladder board for sure.

If we win this week convincingly and play with confidence, we can potentially manage to win next 5 if luck goes our way. The sad part though is, efforts there mostly but not luck.

Damm you luck, you've fucked us so far this season about time to favor us.
 

heartly87

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It comes down to the team identity really. Macca's game is Hook ball and to a smaller degree Bennett ball.
For me this new Broncos outfit should be a tempo and effort team, young fast big forwards getting on the front foot. Then when we finally get a full set of healthy backs we will see a young group of effort players. Bird and Staggs in the centres, Milf at fullback, Oats and ? on the sting is a pretty potent back 5. Our halfs are ? with Boyd still in the mix but if he continues to improve his game he may be able to make it work.

9 is the biggest issue at the moment for Seibs to fix. We need Turps and for me Seggy or somebody like that for this team to roll on and push for a premiership. I don't just say this because their passes are better or their the best playmakers, I say this because they bring energy to the side, they get us going. Turps on both sides of the footy especially.
 

Big Pete

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We had three games of no McCullough (five if you count last season) and 3 (5) wins. McCullough comes back and we lose three straight and look as lethargic and dogshit as we previously did. Other factors like Dearden aside, it's obvious to everyone, even every other clubs' fans, that we look better without him. The points we scored were enough to win those games, and at this stage that's all that really matters. Turpin and/or Segeyaro are the best options we have currently, so we should use them properly and give them a legitimate shot of cementing their spot/s. I'm not suggesting throwing 3-5 year contracts at them and saying that's job done looking for a hooker after 5 or 6 games, but let them prove they deserve to be the immediate future.

Don't forget how raw Turps still is. His 'regulatory brain explosion' as you put it is typical of someone of his experience. And if anything it comes from over-enthusiasm, which I'm happy to take every day of the week over incompetence. He makes things happen, and really outside of a couple of bad decisions here and there and the 'mare he had v Parra (and what player hasn't had a bad game), he's had a hugely positive impact on the team and how we play and I 100% believe we don't win the games we did if it was only McCullough playing.

Turpin had 29 minutes vs the Knights and we were already down 18-6. Turpin in the halves vs the Sharks, Segeyaro the second half, we get outscored 14-12. With 3 hookers playing, you cannot hold that against them (including McCullough in this case). And we outscored the Warriors during the time Segeyaro was playing, granted not enough to win, but we still played better in that time and we get a point. Out of these games we have one half of football with a legitimate half and we outscore 12-8. Along with Milford doing 90% of the kicking from fullback. So points scored cannot be fairly judged with other games from the first half of the season

It may seem like the pro-Turpin crowd go overboard, but the at-least half-decade of staleness has caused any positive change to be met with overwhelming support.

Honestly I hate this type of bet-hedging post that parades as critical analysis.
It's not about hedging bets, it's about applying the same critical standard to those players. For all this talk about how they've improved the Broncos attack, it hasn' translated into points. In fact, the majority of those points scored have come through other means.

The Broncos still play the same forward oriented brand of football with them on the field and neither add a lot of variety to their play. Sure excuses could be made about how teams have to play around Segeyaro's strengths, but as we saw in Penrith and Cronulla, he can be extremely loose in his play as well.
 
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Allo

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It's not about hedging bets, it's about applying the same critical standard to those players. For all this talk about how they've improved the Broncos attack, it hasn' translated into points. In fact, the majority of those points scored have come through other means.

The Broncos still play the same forward oriented brand of football with them on the field and neither add a lot of variety to their play. Sure excuses could be made about how teams have to play around Segeyaro's strengths, but as we saw in Penrith and Cronulla, he can be extremely loose in his play as well.
So because we haven’t scored ‘more’ points, that automatically means they aren’t better?

Do we win the Roosters game if Segeyaro doesn’t duck under and score? Do we win the game if Turpin doesn’t belt Keary back in to the in-goal? It’s been a while but they’re two things that stand out that McCullough doesn’t or can’t do.

All we have to do is beat the teams in front of us, doesn’t matter if it’s by 1 point or by 30. With Turpin/Segs, we were doing that. They get the ball to the forwards quicker, our runs flow better as players aren’t waiting for a ball to come to them or needing to jump to catch it.

I don’t know how else to disprove whatever argument you’re representing so I’ll present some on your behalf for me to answer:

The team on the whole was under a new coaching structure leading to poor results, McCullough hasn’t played with Dearden/Not Kodi yet, Milf wasn’t at fullback, different team makeups with no Bird, Niko, Roberts etc etc.

All of those are considered and given weight to a degree, but you just have to watch the games. Put aside the different players (most of which are the same middle 3-6 forwards that have been there all season), the tackle and points stats, the fact Macca’s been there for 10 years and that Turpin’s been there for 10 games, and you know we play and look better as a team in general when it’s not McCullough at dummy-half. Even Walters knows this for SOO.

If anything McCullough should be playing halfback, because his short kicking game was actually quite good vs the Sharks. He can probably defend better on the edge too.

Give Turpin (and by extension Segeyaro) the time to be in his long-term position.
 

Big Pete

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So because we haven’t scored ‘more’ points, that automatically means they aren’t better?
It suggests that they're not travelling as well as some would have you believe. That for all the promise, it's yet to fix the issues in the Broncos attacking structures. The Sydney Roosters game can be considered an exception, but even in that game, Turpin's flaws were apparent.

This isn't about picking a side between McCullough, Turpin and Segeyaro, it's about providing an honest and fair assessment. If I'm going to be critical of McCullough to the extent I was, I'll apply the same standards to the others.

For all we know, all three could be a bad fit for the club moving forward and the Broncos would have been better off looking elsewhere.
 
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Alec

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It suggests that they're not travelling as well as some would have you believe. That for all the promise, it's yet to fix the issues in the Broncos attacking structures. The Sydney Roosters game can be considered an exception, but even in that game, Turpin's flaws were apparent.

This isn't about picking a side between McCullough, Turpin and Segeyaro, it's about providing an honest and fair assessment. If I'm going to be critical of McCullough to the extent I was, I'll apply the same standards to the others.

For all we know, all three could be a bad fit for the club moving forward and the Broncos would have been better off looking elsewhere.
If Turpin or Segeyaro could fix all the attacking issues with the current Broncos side (with the makeshift halves, Boyd at fullback, ordinary back line), they'd have to be probably better than Cameron Smith. They might not be the long term answer, but someone like Dearden or whatever might not end up the long term answer either.
 

Big Pete

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If Turpin or Segeyaro could fix all the attacking issues with the current Broncos side (with the makeshift halves, Boyd at fullback, ordinary back line), they'd have to be probably better than Cameron Smith. They might not be the long term answer, but someone like Dearden or whatever might not end up the long term answer either.
Just to be clear, nobody is asking that much of them. Just a direct improvement over McCullough which really shouldn't be asking much.

Dearden is at a completely different stage of his career to those players, so that's a poor comparison.
 

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