Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Sproj, Nov 15, 2018.
My iQ dropped reading his manifesto.
Actually, you can definitely whinge when someone does/says something you don't agree with. That's called a Democracy.
You are right about the rules allowing him to get a seat needing reviewing, not because of his stance, but because he cannot in good conscience be called a people's representative on that amount of votes.
The author of the petition knows there is no actual mechanism to remove Anning for his xenophobic outburst, but that is not what the petition is about. It is about letting the world know most Australians will not stand for such "opinions" from their elected members.
On the other hand, Anning knows his words will resonate with his supporters. The usual fringe of fuckwits on social media are hailing him for his "courage"...
What? Absolutely I can whinge. Just like I can whinge for the shit **** that "represents" me out here. Peter '****' Dutton. I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that you simply can't complain about elected people as if people don't do it daily. If there is anyone happy with how Scott Morrison and the LNP are going at the moment, I'll be able to point out an idiot.
Everyone knows a Change petition is worthless, not binding, and means nothing. Well actually, I'm sure plenty signed that one who didn't know that, but it is what it is. What it does do, it sends a message that what he did is not acceptable, and over 1 million people in 3 days shows that.
Well yes, you can whinge but like I said, it means about the same as going on a twitter rant - useless.
No, it absolutely matters, and to say otherwise is simply not correct. Politicians are swayed by what the people around them are saying on many, many things. It's true that they don't give a **** on a lot of stuff, and it's true that sometimes we are just too stupid to understand what we are talking about when it comes to operating a country. But to suggest what we say has absolutely no meaning is simply not right.
1.5 million Australians signing a petition within 3 days on this subject, is definitely something pollies will notice. If you think otherwise, you're clueless to politics.
Turns out one of the guys killed in Christchurch was someone I sort of knew.
Played against him quite a lot back in the early days of competitive AU/NZ CS, was a really good player, seemed like a top bloke as well. Obviously went on to bigger and better things, accomplished more in his short life than a majority of people will. Rest in peace.
So, what are they going to do? They can't sack him, despite what the Greens are saying.
They are talking about it. THey are denouncing it. They are telling the nation that our government, and the major parties do not think this way, and that normal Australian's also don't think this way.
Have you honestly never complained about something the government has done, or attempted to do?
Hell yeah, but I’m smart enough to know , if it’s just a whinge, not in any official capacity, it usually does little good. I know I’ve never bothered to sign an e-petition. But meh, to each their own. Whatever makes you feel good, I guess.
I despise everything that Fraser Anning represents but if we choose who can speak and what they say are we really the liberal democracy we all espouse this country to be?
Statements that condone or promote violence aside, I hope we never have the chance to agree universally on politics. For then we will have truely failed.
Reprehensible though his views may be, defining that characteristic through a legal apparatus is a fair step on the way to emulating some facist regimes (ironically the very people Anning has given a passing nod to in his rhetoric).
Some 50 people lost their lives on Monday in an act of terrorism. That is all that needs to be said. They were people who worked and went to school, played and laughed, and were loved.
If anyone wants to justify or excuse such an act they should be be treated with the same justice given to those who support alchieda or the IRA. But to shine light on ignorance or callousness you must first expose it. You won't do so by pretending it doesn't exist.
I don't think anyone disagrees that he's allowed to say what he said. The timing was absolutely offensive. It was offensive to the Muslim community, and New Zealanders. There is a time and a place, and it wasn't then. Plenty of people said it, but he's a senator, and he should pull his **** head in.
I think society has reached the point where wilful ignorance and bigotry should be stomped on. Freedom of speech actually inhibits the freedom of others when it’s misinformed bile like that.
They are going to be handing over the petition tomorrow to Senator Mehreen Faruqi.
I very highly doubt anything will come of it, but I guess it shows that people won't tolerate the crap Senator Anning tried to pull.
I don't believe there is a legal mechanism to remove Anning, but hopefully it will lead to changes in Senate laws, which would prevent people with 19 votes to actually get a seat there, and even eject members whose speech is considered hateful in nature and an incentive to violence against any ethnicity, creed or gender.
I think that is pretty much what Anning did, and it shouldn't be tolerated under the "freedom of speech" all encompassing moniker, which allows all these extreme groups to sprout their hate rhetoric. And no, it's not a slippery slope towards fascism to frame freedom of speech in a manner that it ends where it infringes on other people's safety and freedom.
The problem with this fix, is that the bleeding heart, offended at anything and everything, whinging dickheads will be tasked with making the rules. It is absolutely a slippery slope. Hell, we already have ISPs censoring websites because of one lunatic.
I was talking more about representatives than general public.
That said, it is also our responsibility not to cave in to the minorities (bleeding hearts or alt-right) just because they are loud, and filter the real damaging speech from their noise.
I mean, if a bunch of nerdy Broncos fans are capable of doing it reasonably well at BHQ, society at large should too.
Look at what "freedom of speech" does in social media. while most of it is inconsequent, there is insidious misinformation being spread. Whether it's alt-right, extreme left, religious nutters or antivaxxers, their message is reaching huge audiences of gullible, ignorant and/or susceptible people.
Not everyone functions at the same intellectual level, as social media has overwhelmingly proven. The WHO has declared antivaxxers as one of the Top 10 health threats to the world, because of the amount of people believing the snake-oil salesmen and "Big pHARMa" conspiracy theorists, bringing down the levels of vaccination and trashing herd-immunity below its necessary threshold to protect the population.
Inevitably, the more people you reach, the more likely you are to catch the attention of someone who will take it further, like this lunatic. I'd say it's only a matter of time until another one raises its ugly head, and takes on a synagogue or other religious temple, an abortion clinic or a vaccination centre.
If the price to pay to prevent the above, is censorship of a few websites which are incapable or unwilling to apply the above mentioned filter, I have no problem paying it.
Forgive me for not at all believing you. You were against the Australian internet filter, and part of that was censorship. Add that to the discussions WE have had recently, this is crazy.
What you're missing though is not everyone has the same values as you, or the next person.
For mine, as you know with my religious beliefs, I would consider a lot of what has been said not necessarily here, but on social media for sure, in your words, "insidious misinformation being spread". Who gets to decide what is "hate speech", and what is "enlightening the otherwise uninformed" ?
And it's one thing to say society should be able to do a good job. Society has decided a lot of bullshit is alright. Society is fucked, it's the last place we should be looking for what is acceptable.
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