RANT This isn’t a ‘sack Kev’ thread...but...should we be thinking about it?

theshed

Just a Game
Aug 28, 2010
5,957
10,997
We all knew this year would be tough, how are we rating Kev so far?

There’s no doubt he has a better rapport with players than Seibold but I do wonder how long that will last if we get belted until the end of the season. Our defence does seem to have improved but that being said, the completion rate of teams during those periods of decent defence has been woeful - and you could argue that is due to pressure from good defence. However, when opposition teams have been able to hold onto the ball for any periods of time the points have piled on. The Eels were atrocious the first half of round 1 and once they found their timing they put on 20+ unanswered points. We started okay last year too and our defence got exponentially worse as morale was broken from countless closer losses. Time will tell if a few thumpings don’t see a similar result this year.

I’m definitely not saying Kev should be on the chopping block yet, this was always going to take time and a lot of things are out of his control. But I have not been impressed with many of the things that are in his control. I want Kev to succeed as much as anyone, from a team perspective and because I like the guy, but early signs of not being up to the task are showing in my opinion. Maybe he will find his feet but I think he needs help and I think the club should throw barrels of cash at Bellamy or Bennett to come on in some form.

I was impressed with Kev’s preseason talk and even the seeming logic behind his round 1 line up. Dearden needed to develop( and Milf needed to be completely backed as he is a confidence player. He also dropped Oates to Q Cup - big ticks all round, Kev well done. Too many injuries made it impossible to get a good gauge on his bench tactics but the fact that we were down to 1 sub and Bullimore only got 14 minutes was confusing - especially given his preseason form.

His halves fell away in the second half but despite this he held strong with his position and kept Dearden in Q Cup and backed his halves in the media.

Round 2 the heat was applied but he picked the right team by resisting the urge to bring Dearden in early or moving the struggling Isaako. Things did not go well. Kev gave the player who he harped on about building his confidence back up all off season a historic public spray - along with his partner Croft who has his own confidence trauma. To me this was the first mismanagement of the situation. There was no need to publicly do that to his halves who were already crumbling under pressure. It lead to as predicted, Milford trying way too hard against the dogs and completely botching it. Milford’s confidence are looking more shot than ever.

Now on to Dearden. Dearden either needed to be dropped and left to develop for an extended period to build confidence in Q cup and develop his game, or be picked from round 1. Kev had to make a firm decision and stick to it to avoid mixed messages. Instead he didn’t pick him - which tells Dearden Kev doesn’t think he’s ready for first grade but then brings back into the side before he has a chance to rebuild that confidence and learn anything from the experience. On top of that, he is brought in on the bench where he is only entrusted with 7
minutes once the game was already over. This turned out looking better than it should have because Q cup was unexpectedly canned due to covid.

Then against Storm he brings Dearden in but dangles Croft over his head by wasting a bench spot on a half. Now Dearden has being hooked looming over him with every decision he makes. The forwards get completely fatigued and would’ve benefit from a forward instead of Croft, and Kev drags Dearden off, who played well enough, to give Croft a token run in an already destroyed team. Unless Dearden off the bench would bring some excitement, what would Croft bring? Nothing as predicted.

Kev bangs on about reducing Haas’ minutes but on his first game back and obviously floundering under fatigue Kev plays him for 70 minutes - contradicting himself and sending the player mixed messages yet again. He plays TPJ for 31 minutes. Yet Alex Glenn gets to make 50m in 80 mins and no talk of being dropped. We have the forwards to compete but Kev’s bench usage has been very questionable.

I hope Kev learns from all this and gets the hang of NRL coaching. Being successful under Kev would be a fairytale but I see a coach who is already out of his depth.
 

winslow_wong

International Rep
May 27, 2013
14,064
10,720
It’s hard to expect anything drastically different when our squad is pretty much the same as the last two years. I’m willing to give him a safe pass this year and hopefully there’s some sort of clean out coming.
 

Mister Wright

NRL Captain
Jun 8, 2009
3,547
1,653
A coach is only as good as his cattle. Most would rate Hasler as one of the best 5 coaches in the game and look at what his team is doing.

I think Siebold was too harshly criticised, but a lot of his demise was of his own doing. Hopefully Kevvie can lean on his experienced assistant coaches and figure a way out.
 

broncsgoat

State of Origin Rep
Oct 28, 2013
6,873
7,295
A coach is only as good as his cattle. Most would rate Hasler as one of the best 5 coaches in the game and look at what his team is doing.

I think Siebold was too harshly criticised, but a lot of his demise was of his own doing. Hopefully Kevvie can lean on his experienced assistant coaches and figure a way out.
You just have to look at the results of the team before seibold, and then since. He was not harshly criticised
 

rnabokov

State of Origin Captain
Mar 5, 2008
8,986
8,178
We all knew this year would be tough, how are we rating Kev so far?

There’s no doubt he has a better rapport with players than Seibold but I do wonder how long that will last if we get belted until the end of the season. Our defence does seem to have improved but that being said, the completion rate of teams during those periods of decent defence has been woeful - and you could argue that is due to pressure from good defence. However, when opposition teams have been able to hold onto the ball for any periods of time the points have piled on. The Eels were atrocious the first half of round 1 and once they found their timing they put on 20+ unanswered points. We started okay last year too and our defence got exponentially worse as morale was broken from countless closer losses. Time will tell if a few thumpings don’t see a similar result this year.

I’m definitely not saying Kev should be on the chopping block yet, this was always going to take time and a lot of things are out of his control. But I have not been impressed with many of the things that are in his control. I want Kev to succeed as much as anyone, from a team perspective and because I like the guy, but early signs of not being up to the task are showing in my opinion. Maybe he will find his feet but I think he needs help and I think the club should throw barrels of cash at Bellamy or Bennett to come on in some form.

I was impressed with Kev’s preseason talk and even the seeming logic behind his round 1 line up. Dearden needed to develop( and Milf needed to be completely backed as he is a confidence player. He also dropped Oates to Q Cup - big ticks all round, Kev well done. Too many injuries made it impossible to get a good gauge on his bench tactics but the fact that we were down to 1 sub and Bullimore only got 14 minutes was confusing - especially given his preseason form.

His halves fell away in the second half but despite this he held strong with his position and kept Dearden in Q Cup and backed his halves in the media.

Round 2 the heat was applied but he picked the right team by resisting the urge to bring Dearden in early or moving the struggling Isaako. Things did not go well. Kev gave the player who he harped on about building his confidence back up all off season a historic public spray - along with his partner Croft who has his own confidence trauma. To me this was the first mismanagement of the situation. There was no need to publicly do that to his halves who were already crumbling under pressure. It lead to as predicted, Milford trying way too hard against the dogs and completely botching it. Milford’s confidence are looking more shot than ever.

Now on to Dearden. Dearden either needed to be dropped and left to develop for an extended period to build confidence in Q cup and develop his game, or be picked from round 1. Kev had to make a firm decision and stick to it to avoid mixed messages. Instead he didn’t pick him - which tells Dearden Kev doesn’t think he’s ready for first grade but then brings back into the side before he has a chance to rebuild that confidence and learn anything from the experience. On top of that, he is brought in on the bench where he is only entrusted with 7
minutes once the game was already over. This turned out looking better than it should have because Q cup was unexpectedly canned due to covid.

Then against Storm he brings Dearden in but dangles Croft over his head by wasting a bench spot on a half. Now Dearden has being hooked looming over him with every decision he makes. The forwards get completely fatigued and would’ve benefit from a forward instead of Croft, and Kev drags Dearden off, who played well enough, to give Croft a token run in an already destroyed team. Unless Dearden off the bench would bring some excitement, what would Croft bring? Nothing as predicted.

Kev bangs on about reducing Haas’ minutes but on his first game back and obviously floundering under fatigue Kev plays him for 70 minutes - contradicting himself and sending the player mixed messages yet again. He plays TPJ for 31 minutes. Yet Alex Glenn gets to make 50m in 80 mins and no talk of being dropped. We have the forwards to compete but Kev’s bench usage has been very questionable.

I hope Kev learns from all this and gets the hang of NRL coaching. Being successful under Kev would be a fairytale but I see a coach who is already out of his depth.

Appreciate your work in this, and agree with many of your points. However, I don't think our issues are simply related to coaching as much as to the consequences of poor recruitment over a lot of years. We don't have a settled side with well worked combinations, organised defence and genuine leadership.

We don't have a side with experienced quality players in key positions, particularly FB and hooker, and our halves are still an experiment. Defence is still static with poor line speed. And most importantly, we have a young team who, without genuine leadership in key positions, just can't get it together because we have been losing for so long. The last time we a positive +/- after Rd 4 was 2017.

I think Kevvie is struggling with trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The only way forward I can see is to pick combinations in key positions, keep the side settled and just keep drilling the basics ... and recruit a genuine hooker and FB ASAP. For starters, I just can't see Isaako or Turpin as the players we need in those key positions.
 

Aldo

What, me worry?
Jul 7, 2013
2,247
3,421
Appreciate your work in this, and agree with many of your points. However, I don't think our issues are simply related to coaching as much as to the consequences of poor recruitment over a lot of years. We don't have a settled side with well worked combinations, organised defence and genuine leadership.

We don't have a side with experienced quality players in key positions, particularly FB and hooker, and our halves are still an experiment. Defence is still static with poor line speed. And most importantly, we have a young team who, without genuine leadership in key positions, just can't get it together because we have been losing for so long. The last time we a positive +/- after Rd 4 was 2017.

I think Kevvie is struggling with trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The only way forward I can see is to pick combinations in key positions, keep the side settled and just keep drilling the basics ... and recruit a genuine hooker and FB ASAP.
We need to start getting the basics right. All the one percenters. Forget the result and start getting the little things done well.

One of the biggest issues I see is that we haven't got that many naturally fit players, especially in the middle. I think Haas is one of these but his minutes are way too high. TPJ is a classic example of a player who just isn't naturally fit. He has to work hard on it to get there.

I was watching TPJ closely last night. I don't think he is lazy but it's just that he gets gassed very quickly and he doesn't cover the inside well. Same with Flegler. A lot of breaks came through them when they came on. Watching Melbourne's middle men, they are all fit and have big motors and never stop.

Get the basics right and look to be competitive for the rest of the year should be our motto.
 

Midean

NRL Player
Jun 5, 2019
2,015
2,774
Aside from being a seemingly friendly guy who appears to have the club on his side due to his personality, i never rated him as a coach and see him as more of a larrikin with a huge heart and a love for the Broncos.
This is far better than what we had with Seibold but i still don't think it equates to a successful coach.

That being said, I don't blame Kevvie for once second for the state of this team, and the fact that we are seeing the same results under Kevvie as we did under Seibold is evidence that the playing group is the problem, and not the coaches.

So long as we have players like Milford in the side, we are screwed and i don't think the combined powers of Bellamy Bennet and Robinson could get this team into the top 8.

I feel sorry for Kevvie because you just know he genuinely loves this club and i imagine its harder for him than anyone else to watch the ship sinking.
 

rnabokov

State of Origin Captain
Mar 5, 2008
8,986
8,178
For mine, perhaps the first priority is to fix our defence. The second is to create some space and time for our halves, whoever they might be, in the face of a rushing defence.

All the top sides have defence whose main goal is to suffocate an attack by cutting down the time and space for decision making by the opposition's key playmakers, either by targeting them, or simply reducing any opportunities to keep good shapes out wide.

I can't remember the last time we consistently rushed up in defence to challenge the opposition's playmakers. Last night, Munster and Paps had a field day. The top sides will make sure that those 2 in particular have as little time as possible to create. We need to really work on our defence under the new rules, making the issue of time and space paramount in scoring and equally, defending.

We are playing under the old rules. It just doesn't work anymore, and it's always the big picture, the context which needs attention first before ascribing blame to individuals.

As well, I'd love to see Walters build a few settled combinations, say like the Storm's NAS and Paps working together, always looking for an offload.
 

Renegade

State of Origin Rep
Mar 14, 2008
5,483
5,716
my opinion is, what did people expect? like others have mentioned, we won the spoon and added copley and asiata, lost Fifita, no Staggs, basically we are a worse team than last year and yet we expected Kev to turn it around in 4 games?

we are a 10-12 team tops this year, end of. get used to more pastings because we don't have anyone left in the arsenal apart from more kids who are doing their best in a horrid team.
 

Alec

International Rep
Mar 4, 2008
17,705
9,667
Not impressed so far.
Still a terrible use of the interchange.
Disconnect between what he says and what he does - ie. Haas minutes, bringing Dearden into a losing side.
Broncos look more or less the same as last year.
Less than a handful of signings, and they are of questionable quality.

Now some of these things might be out of his control in his first year though, so I'll give until next season before I'll be really leaning one way or the other.
 

Maroon4life

QCup Player
May 28, 2016
602
522
I won’t judge him on the terrible year he’s going to have with the squad this year, that writing was on the wall. The roster is a complete mess and that’s not his doing.


I’d judge his performance this year on the teams attitude toward defence and fighting to stay in a game. All the effort areas and enthusiasm on the field don’t need expert coaching, that’s just the players psychological approach to the game that he can install and use to keep the players accountable.

Furthermore his recruitment choices for next year, how he goes about making changes to the side and what his vision is for the team moving forward. If we end the season without an indication of what a ‘22 side will be looking like I’ll be concerned for sure.
 

Mr Fourex

State of Origin Rep
Apr 9, 2012
6,001
4,225
I’d judge his performance this year on the teams attitude toward defence and fighting to stay in a game.

Based on that....so far its a bit fat fucken zero then...yeah? 🙃

I think we have a team of some very individually talented players. They do not work as a team......thats on Walters right now, but I reckon some of the players flaws have been inbred through years of poor coaching....poor club strategy.......poor fucken everything....and these guys have been getting by on talent alone, which is alright in the juniors and reggies......but it aint going to cut it in the big time.
 

I bleed Maroon

State of Origin Captain
Apr 17, 2013
10,837
10,025
I said awhile ago the first person that creates a sack Walters thread is quote "a mug".

theshed theshed Walking a fine line, my man.
 

K-Style

NRL Player
Jun 1, 2014
2,046
658
I don't see it as dangling Croft over Dearden's head but Kev being pressured to bring Dearden in when he planned to give Croft more of a chance and give Dearden more experience in QCup. The QCup banning NRL players for this round wouldn't have helped the decision. While it wasn't pretty we beat the Bulldogs with Croft on the field and he was involved in some of the points we scored.
 

Mustafur

NRL Player
Jun 13, 2019
1,047
1,256
I don't think we would of ever won this in hindsight, but if our middles where given a rest in first half around the time they started getting tired and Melbourne opened us up like a can. It would of been a much closer game.

The interchange was soo diabolical I couldn't believe what I was seeing, we lost all our line speed and you had tired players missing tackles, the Croft/Dearden experiment was completely pointless as well.
 

Sproj

International Captain
Staff
Sep 6, 2013
24,973
21,861
Let’s give Kevvie a hand:

Haas sub (1) after 30 -> Flegler/Bullemor
Lodge sub (2) after 25 -> Kennedy
Pangai Jr sub (3) after 20 -> Carrigan/Asiata
Kennedy sub (4) after 50 -> Lodge
Carrigan/Asiata sub (5) after 55 -> Haas
Flegler/Bullemor sub (6) after 60 -> Pangai Jr
Turpin sub (7) after 55/60 -> Paix/Hooker signing

That leaves you one other sub to use as/if needed.

Now this does not need to happen every week of course and you need to play it by ear depending on injuries/fatigue, etc but this took my five minutes. For guys who are employed to do this, it has been pretty poor thus far.
 

holdzy

State of Origin Rep
May 5, 2016
7,098
6,423
I'm over last night's loss now.

Most of us sort of expected a flogging, what we didn't expect was to be ahead and to match it with them for any significant period of time I think. We are probably going to get flogged the next few weeks against the top teams, but I'm more interested in how we go against the teams below us and just above us. Winning those games is vital. Something to build on.
 

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