RANT This isn’t a ‘sack Kev’ thread...but...should we be thinking about it?

Matheos

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Apr 4, 2014
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I'd be looking at making a double play for Shane Flanagan and John Morris, if financial viable. As a pair they have leadership, tactical nous, understanding of squad management, with the former winning a premiership. Our coaching staff have none of the above and excel at playing musical chairs...
 

Kooly87

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Jun 2, 2017
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I reckon thats exactly what is happening. It appears he has already made up his mind on Oates.
He's on big money and still has a PO in his favour though so it's pointless resigning him to the scrap heap this far out.

I'm not suggesting one strong Queensland Cup game justifies a recall, but if he can sustain good form then I'd definitely not be putting a red line through his name this far out from his contract finishing.
 

Rico

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Jun 4, 2016
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Yep all accurate though I think there are some fundamental differences that make it impossible to compare and they are (and there are probably others too but in my opinion these are the major ones but not in any particular order):

- The Lions bought in really good management and some renowned list managers (The Broncs have done this with Donuts but he isn't enough)
- The AFL has the draft and the importance of this cannot be understated
- The Lions started to target country kids who were all really good academically and socially (much easier to find in the AFL than NRL) to avoid the go-home factor that plagued them under the two previous coaches
- Fagan bought in some gun assistant coaches who had some runs on the board elsewhere
- The Lions have the best medical team in the league by far, so this meant they could attract some excellent but injury prone talent and turn them into regular players, for example McCarthy, Daniher and a few others
- They targeted some solid AFL quality players in the 24-28 age bracket to help fill holes until the kids were ready
- They implemented a no idiots philosophy, no matter how good a player was
- Fagan became a father figure to the players and stuck by them and nurtured them, kind of like Bennett but with less ego
- All AFL coached need to do a Cert IV in coaching, so with Fagan, he came in both highly qualified and experienced after spending years and years under Clarkson, the best coach of the last 20 years
- There was noticeable improvement across those two years under Fagan and the year before they came second, they were achieving honourable loss after honourable loss, so if even half of those were a kick the other way, they would have been on the cusp of the 8 instead of where they finished up

But I can’t stress this enough, Fagan is an excellent coach but he had an excellent management team backing him up in Swann, Noble and Ambrosio. Compare that to White, Morris and Nolan - there’s your number one issue and 67% of it remains.
Great post Sproj Sproj . Further to the above, Fagan also had a plan for stripping it right back to fundamentals and minimal / incremental, weekly improvement over time. I heard a great interview with Dane Zorko who said when they were at their lowest they planned to win inside 50's one week or contested possession or more handballs then a quarter of football, then a half, then a game and so on.
KW on the other hand seems panicked which is reflected in the squad numbers and trying to get us back to where he thinks we belong but when you cant do the basics is pointless.
On the Fagan philosophy, this week we should be looking to have say no more than 8 errors, 50% possession or less than 30 missed tackles or 80% completions ...buggar panicking for a win that's not on the offering. This would perhaps improve fundamentals which is probably the biggest frustration for all of us.
 

Sproj

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Great post Sproj Sproj . Further to the above, Fagan also had a plan for stripping it right back to fundamentals and minimal / incremental, weekly improvement over time. I heard a great interview with Dane Zorko who said when they were at their lowest they planned to win inside 50's one week or contested possession or more handballs then a quarter of football, then a half, then a game and so on.
KW on the other hand seems panicked which is reflected in the squad numbers and trying to get us back to where he thinks we belong but when you cant do the basics is pointless.
On the Fagan philosophy, this week we should be looking to have say no more than 8 errors, 50% possession or less than 30 missed tackles or 80% completions ...buggar panicking for a win that's not on the offering. This would perhaps improve fundamentals which is probably the biggest frustration for all of us.

And you see the results of such good coaching because the base level now is so strong for the Lions. The other thing is, which I forgot to say, the Lions shifted to a systems based game plan which meant they could start to adopt the next one up philosophy.

It also meant players have clearly defined roles. They know what they need to do and where. Mastering the basics meant they could also focus on the next level stuff. They also were willing to lose players who didn’t want to buy in to bring in those who did.

I mean look at Rhys Mathieson, he’s easily good enough to be in a first team elsewhere but loves the Lions even though he is playing reserves most weeks. The depth the Lions have built is phenomenal. Even limited players like Ben Keays who have been forced out due to competition for spots have gone to other clubs and flourished.

The Lions have turned themselves into a destination club because the off field systems and structures are so good and lay the platform for on field success. There’s a lesson there that a three year extension to Morris will hinder.
 

mrslong

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Mar 25, 2008
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Yep all accurate though I think there are some fundamental differences that make it impossible to compare and they are (and there are probably others too but in my opinion these are the major ones but not in any particular order):

- The Lions bought in really good management and some renowned list managers (The Broncs have done this with Donuts but he isn't enough)
- The AFL has the draft and the importance of this cannot be understated
- The Lions started to target country kids who were all really good academically and socially (much easier to find in the AFL than NRL) to avoid the go-home factor that plagued them under the two previous coaches
- Fagan bought in some gun assistant coaches who had some runs on the board elsewhere
- The Lions have the best medical team in the league by far, so this meant they could attract some excellent but injury prone talent and turn them into regular players, for example McCarthy, Daniher and a few others
- They targeted some solid AFL quality players in the 24-28 age bracket to help fill holes until the kids were ready
- They implemented a no idiots philosophy, no matter how good a player was
- Fagan became a father figure to the players and stuck by them and nurtured them, kind of like Bennett but with less ego
- All AFL coached need to do a Cert IV in coaching, so with Fagan, he came in both highly qualified and experienced after spending years and years under Clarkson, the best coach of the last 20 years
- There was noticeable improvement across those two years under Fagan and the year before they came second, they were achieving honourable loss after honourable loss, so if even half of those were a kick the other way, they would have been on the cusp of the 8 instead of where they finished up

But I can’t stress this enough, Fagan is an excellent coach but he had an excellent management team backing him up in Swann, Noble and Ambrosio. Compare that to White, Morris and Nolan - there’s your number one issue and 67% of it remains.
They signed one of the Goat winningest Captain in Hodge too. The way the Hawks fell apart and Brisbane flourished having him in the side. The Broncos really should have gone hard after Smith.
 

Slippin Jimmy

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Jun 8, 2017
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Great post Sproj Sproj On the Fagan philosophy, this week we should be looking to have say no more than 8 errors, 50% possession or less than 30 missed tackles or 80% completions ...buggar panicking for a win that's not on the offering. This would perhaps improve fundamentals which is probably the biggest frustration for all of us.
I don't follow the AFL so I can't comment on how it was implemented there, but this is giving me flashbacks of some of Seibold's finest press conferences where he crowed about our tackle efficiency in a game where we got dusted by 40.

Not saying the idea is a bad one mind you. Maybe someone with more of a clue than Seibold could have implemented it better.
 

theshed

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Aug 28, 2010
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Great post Sproj Sproj . Further to the above, Fagan also had a plan for stripping it right back to fundamentals and minimal / incremental, weekly improvement over time. I heard a great interview with Dane Zorko who said when they were at their lowest they planned to win inside 50's one week or contested possession or more handballs then a quarter of football, then a half, then a game and so on.
KW on the other hand seems panicked which is reflected in the squad numbers and trying to get us back to where he thinks we belong but when you cant do the basics is pointless.
On the Fagan philosophy, this week we should be looking to have say no more than 8 errors, 50% possession or less than 30 missed tackles or 80% completions ...buggar panicking for a win that's not on the offering. This would perhaps improve fundamentals which is probably the biggest frustration for all of us.
This is what I originally thought Kev was doing and I thought I saw it coming to life in the panthers game.

- pick what you think is the best side
- back the players and your coaching
- strip the game down to the simplest components
- concentrate on building defensive structures and habits
- play painfully boring footy until you get the basics right then start to add some dazzle
- drop players who aren’t buying in, reward efforts over execution
- cop a lot of gusty losses and keep your head high that you are improving on the fundamentals. Trust the process and keep working at it.

None of those seems to be the case though.
 

Jedhead

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Jan 8, 2018
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If Kevvie has a plan that he's sticking to it's got to be something more intricate than ever Pies the academic could think of as I can't see anything that resembles structure and foundational planning. I'm sure his team selection is based on moon cycles, or tide times as they're all circular and bereft of forward momentum.

Why did we not demand the services of Henry and Hagen to help him? Cartwright and Matterson do not seem to be making a blind bit of difference. Surely, between three ex-players there is more than a rudimentary understanding of bench rotation and taking advantage of HIA interchanges. At present, even that simple operation seems beyond them.

Someone is definitely taking the piss here. Where and who are the people that DD said he would be ensuring were there to support Kevvie? So far nothing/no one has materialised to fulfill that promise.

Are we to believe that Brenko Lee and Adam Reynolds are what the brains trust at the Broncos think will resolve our huge, almost insurmountable issues? FMD!!!
 

Twbapony

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Are we to believe that Brenko Lee and Adam Reynolds are what the brains trust at the Broncos think will resolve our huge, almost insurmountable issues? FMD!!!
I know I go a lot on about Parra, helps that my mate supports them and he is who I watch the football with, they did take on some "dead" weight during their rebuild in Gower, Fergerson, and similar. These guys might not be the flashiest, showiest, greatest finishers of all time, but they showed the youth how to be successful. Blake last year had a quiet one, but he still celebrated any try/win as if it was all his own doing. Gower showed the younger forwards that the reason they are called that is to go forward and collide, if you got the offload so much the better. Lee will hopefully do the same for us and bring some culture back to the young ones which has been lacking under the amazing leadership on offer currently.
 

Harry Sack

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I reckon thats exactly what is happening. It appears he has already made up his mind on Oates.

Agreed, but I'd still have him over Coates at this point. He just looks completely disinterested.
 

theshed

Just a Game
Aug 28, 2010
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This is completely unsubstantiated but some random guy on reddit said that a broncos staffer shared a story;

Asiata asked why he was benched so long after such a good start to a game, to which Kev replied “I was stressed and forgot to put you back on”.

Sounds like bullshit but it’s also literally what happened to Turpin
 

pagey

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Aug 19, 2013
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They signed one of the Goat winningest Captain in Hodge too. The way the Hawks fell apart and Brisbane flourished having him in the side. The Broncos really should have gone hard after Smith.
Who says that they didn't, we've chased him and Bellamy multiple times.
Didn't Fagan start in 2017 ?? Won the wooden spoon and nearly the same the following year?
 

Sproj

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Who says that they didn't, we've chased him and Bellamy multiple times.
Didn't Fagan start in 2017 ?? Won the wooden spoon and nearly the same the following year?

That second year though there was noticeable improvement and honourable losses mixed in. That will be the key for Kevvie, there needs to be noticeable improvement next year.
 

pagey

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That second year though there was noticeable improvement and honourable losses mixed in. That will be the key for Kevvie, there needs to be noticeable improvement next year.
That's fine but Kevvie has had half a season and people are calling for his head . im just pointing out that getting of the bottom is a process, your commending the progress of the lio s but your bashing the Broncos before they get a chance.
 

Sproj

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That's fine but Kevvie has had half a season and people are calling for his head . im just pointing out that getting of the bottom is a process, your commending the progress of the lio s but your bashing the Broncos before they get a chance.

How? I'm concerned about where the side is at and I think that's understandable but I've also stated I'm willing to give him until the middle of next year.
 

Harry Sack

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I think it's that there doesn't seem to be any clear plan. I get that he's chopping and changing to work out who's worth keeping and who should be moving on, but some of the selections are just baffling. I don't understand why Coates is being picked...he's not in our future plans and looks completely disinterested. We brought Asiata to play as a ball playing lock, but he always seems to start off the bench. I thought the plan for purchasing Levi was to give Turpin a break either side of the half and that hasn't been happening. There's more that I'm forgetting I'm sure, but there's been some real head scratchers. Chopping and changing aside...his bench use, for the most part, has been diabolical. That has nothing to do with looking towards next year and there is no excuse for it IMO. That last, more than anything, is what concerns me with Kevie as a coach.
 

pagey

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How? I'm concerned about where the side is at and I think that's understandable but I've also stated I'm willing to give him until the middle of next year.
I said people, didn't single you out about Kevvie but you definitely like to bash em.
 
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