When do clubs need to develop?

[Wolfie]

I can't believe people are actually using the "afl is too dominant" argument STILL. 24 years, origins, premierships, the 2nd richest club in the nrl from all reports. There's a Victorian who just signed an nfl contract ffs. I can't believe these excuses for the storm are still getting trotted out.
Sure, use qld completely for a few years whole you build some pathways, but 25 bloody years! Hahaha it's joke people actually defend them here...

I think it is too dominant in Victoria. What i dont know is the quality of their junior competitions in Rugby League. It would be interesting to see the ratio of kids playing AFL to Rugby League in Victoria. If they cant get a healthy competition at grass roots level with quality players ( which isnt on the Storm ) then they will always struggle to develop their own talent. I dont disagree the Storm can help to a point, but what else can they do besides try to raise the profile of the game down there. They arent going to cut their nose off to spite their face by only focusing on Victorian talent if the quality just isnt there, and i'm not so sure it is.

 

[Sproj]

Thanks for that and yet you'll still find that the majority of players, especially key figures in the team aren't from Brisbane. That's despite the AFL doing everything they can to break into the Brisbane market over a decade before Melbourne.

If the NRL supported their expansion clubs as well as the AFL have supported theirs we would see similar results.

Dunstall, Voss, Reiwoldt would eventually be considered for immortal status if they had the same thing in AFL. Most of the others in the list I provided are key players, I left out the many who weren’t.

The kid touted to be number 1 draft picks this year is in the Lions academy. You cannot say league has done just about as well or similar in Victoria. NSW has also produced some greats. Victoria has produced Wallace? as barely a rep player.

 

[Wolfie]

Dunstall, Voss, Reiwoldt would eventually be considered for immortal status if they had the same thing in AFL. Most of the others in the list I provided are key players, I left out the many who weren’t.

The kid touted to be number 1 draft picks this year is in the Lions academy. You cannot say league has done just about as well or similar in Victoria. NSW has also produced some greats. Victoria has produced Wallace? as barely a rep player.

As i said, its all about having a strong competition at grass roots level. Thats where everything starts imo. I dont know the quality of the comps say in QLD for AFL, same as i dont know the quality of the junior comps in Rugby league in Victoria.

I'd just be surprised if it was anywhere near the standard though of NSW or QLD. If it was, i reckon the Rorters would have had their fingers in the pie down there!

 

[Big Pete]

Dunstall, Voss, Reiwoldt would eventually be considered for immortal status if they had the same thing in AFL. Most of the others in the list I provided are key players, I left out the many who weren’t.

The kid touted to be number 1 draft picks this year is in the Lions academy. You cannot say league has done just about as well or similar in Victoria. NSW has also produced some greats. Victoria has produced Wallace? as barely a rep player.

That's my point, Rugby League hasn't done as well. I'm saying the AFL are the model and yet even with their success the expansion talent still makes up a minority and they still rely on heartlands to build their teams up.

 

[Cult]

The idea of expansion is too grow the game in a new area and have new players involved in the game that normally wouldn't be there to play. The NRL expanded into Melbourne but the Storm have done nothing to actually grow the game in Melbourne. Everyone keeps falling back on the "but AFL exists" excuse but after this many years and what they've done to the game (disrepute, forced rule changes etc.) they have run out of excuses. **** the QLD Storm, I refuse to refer to them as Melbourne anymore.

 

[Scorchie]

The idea of expansion is too grow the game in a new area and have new players involved in the game that normally wouldn't be there to play. The NRL expanded into Melbourne but the Storm have done nothing to actually grow the game in Melbourne. Everyone keeps falling back on the "but AFL exists" excuse but after this many years and what they've done to the game (disrepute, forced rule changes etc.) they have run out of excuses. **** the QLD Storm, I refuse to refer to them as Melbourne anymore.

I agree; I think you can use that excuse for a while but it’s not like the Swans 24 years on are still remotely even talking about the NRL.

Dolphins are safe in this regard but if we are going to expand, there should be some KPis around this

 

[Wolfie]

The idea of expansion is too grow the game in a new area and have new players involved in the game that normally wouldn't be there to play. The NRL expanded into Melbourne but the Storm have done nothing to actually grow the game in Melbourne. Everyone keeps falling back on the "but AFL exists" excuse but after this many years and what they've done to the game (disrepute, forced rule changes etc.) they have run out of excuses. **** the QLD Storm, I refuse to refer to them as Melbourne anymore.

I think the AFL excuse is valid, but only because the NRL havent put enough into the game down there to encourage people to take it up. You just cant throw a footy club into an area like Victoria and expect that club to grow the game by itself.

I cant stand the Storm, but i just cant put all the blame onto them for the lack of development across the board down there. What i do think with them though is they probably dont do as much as they could in some respects because they have a players on tap up here.

 

[Sproj]

That's my point, Rugby League hasn't done as well. I'm saying the AFL are the model and yet even with their success the expansion talent still makes up a minority and they still rely on heartlands to build their teams up.

I understand your point and agree mostly. The fact is though that the AFL has produced some real guns in league heartland and many AFL quality players. There are numerous QLD and NSW produced players who have won premierships, player achievement awards (really coveted ones too) and the real proof in the pudding is that there are more and more AFL players being produced from these areas every year. Even at grassroots level, the AFL leaves league for dead.

It isn't enough to say the NRL hasn't done as well, they have done almost nothing at all. After 20+ years of the Storm, there should be at least a noticeable percentage of Victorian players but there isn't.

 

[Sproj]

I think the AFL excuse is valid, but only because the NRL havent put enough into the game down there to encourage people to take it up. You just cant throw a footy club into an area like Victoria and expect that club to grow the game by itself.

I cant stand the Storm, but i just cant put all the blame onto them for the lack of development across the board down there. What i do think with them though is they probably dont do as much as they could in some respects because they have a players on tap up here.

The Storm don't do anything at all, not a thing. All they care about is winning premierships, rorting systems as much as they can and sucking the life out of Brisbane's north-eastern area. I am so happy the Dolphins have come in and are stamping on the Storm's turf but I am certain the Storm will just look at other league heartland areas instead of Victoria because if they've done jack all for two decades, they aren't likely to start now when the club is for the first time ever, starting to look in a bit of trouble with their roster after this year.

 

[1910]

I asked; just for reference the juniors in Victoria were about 600 in 2006 and they're now over 4000.

20% girls, I am assuming that was 0 not too long ago.

 

[Scorchie]

I asked; just for reference the juniors in Victoria were about 600 in 2006 and they're now over 4000.

20% girls, I am assuming that was 0 not too long ago.

Would be curious to see Canberra, Sharks, Cowboys numbers.

Gold Coast gets a pass because of their proven SHS's that generate talent
Newcastle the same reason - proven playground for new players

 

[1910]

Would be curious to see Canberra, Sharks, Cowboys numbers.

Gold Coast gets a pass because of their proven SHS's that generate talent
Newcastle the same reason - proven playground for new players

Qld is 62,000
NSW is 107,000

 

[1910]

Qld has produced:

Jason Akermanis
Aliir Aliir
Harris Andrews
Marcus Ashcroft
Dayne Beams
Charlie Cameron
Charlie Dixon
Jason Dunstall
Eric Hipwood
Mal Michael
Nick Reiwoldt
Kurt Tippett
Michael Voss
Lachie Weller
Dayne Zorko

Among MANY, MANY others. These guys are all greats / upper echelon of the game.

Compare that to the what 4 Victorians in league?

That list doesn't provide any context, nearly all of them moved to Queensland at 11 and left again- not born here didn't start AFL here just stopped by for 15 minutes and played AFL in other states before Queensland.

Dunstall and Zorko would be the only exclusively Queensland produced- born here, learnt AFL here and then left to go to Hawks/Suns.

 

[Wolfie]

The Storm don't do anything at all, not a thing. All they care about is winning premierships, rorting systems as much as they can and sucking the life out of Brisbane's north-eastern area. I am so happy the Dolphins have come in and are stamping on the Storm's turf but I am certain the Storm will just look at other league heartland areas instead of Victoria because if they've done jack all for two decades, they aren't likely to start now when the club is for the first time ever, starting to look in a bit of trouble with their roster after this year.

Genuine question though, what can they do really. Developing that game is something they should help with, but they wouldnt have the kind of finances, manpower or resources to build the game from the ground up in Victoria. Thats surely the NRL's responsibility working alongside the Storm.

 

[Sproj]

That list doesn't provide any context, nearly all of them moved to Queensland at 11 and left again- not born here didn't start AFL here just stopped by for 15 minutes and played AFL in other states before Queensland.

Dunstall would be the only exclusively Queensland produced- born here, learnt AFL here and then left to go to Hawks.

Not once did I say they were all born in Qld. SOME of them moved up here prior to 10 years old, about half I'd say and even the ones that came up at 11, are you saying all of their development occurred elsewhere before coming to Qld? And again, I only provided the list of ones who were considered guns, there are many, many more on top of the list I provided, most of which were born in Qld.

Also, for the likes of Aliir Aliir, are you suggesting Sudan is a stronghold of the AFL?

Finally, if we go with your definition here, who has Victoria actually produced for the NRL given pretty much all of them are Polynesian background and/or had their formative years in NSW?

 

[1910]

Not once did I say they were all born in Qld. SOME of them moved up here prior to 10 years old, about half I'd say and even the ones that came up at 11, are you saying all of their development occurred elsewhere before coming to Qld? And again, I only provided the list of ones who were considered guns, there are many, many more on top of the list I provided, most of which were born in Qld.

Also, for the likes of Aliir Aliir, are you suggesting Sudan is a stronghold of the AFL?

I am just saying if you're going to talk development you/we/people need to know they lived in Victoria until they were 15 and then moved up here. It's pretty important detail in a development discussion.

 

[Wolfie]

I asked; just for reference the juniors in Victoria were about 600 in 2006 and they're now over 4000.

20% girls, I am assuming that was 0 not too long ago.

Interesting figures. Problem is though the numbers dont give us any idea of quality. For example, how would the top u16 sides in Victoria fare against the top 5 u16 sides in QLD

 

[Sproj]

Genuine question though, what can they do really. Developing that game is something they should help with, but they wouldnt have the kind of finances, manpower or resources to build the game from the ground up in Victoria. Thats surely the NRL's responsibility working alongside the Storm.

Yeah I agree, this isn't wholly on the Storm, the NRL are a massive part of the failure to grow the game in Victoria. The Storm could go out into schools though and have open days, etc. I have never seen them do any of this.