RANT Are You a Fan of The NRL Still?

[pennywisealfie]

Been off footy for a long time but still watch every Broncos game and always have.

 

[1910]

Look, this is essentially a rant but I have grave concerns for this sport and whatever direction it isn't heading. Is it out of control? More importantly, can it be saved from itself?

Let's look at some key issues here (no particular order):
- Queensland fans treated like garbage (vegetables and meat lovers stupidity)
- Vlandys being in charge and changing whatever his morning flatulence suggests he should
- The head high crackdown
- The six again farce
- Inconsistency and blatant ineptness in officiating
- The penalty crackdown that was working but complaints stopped it
- The salary cap farce - mercenaries can top up the best teams now
- A former Roosters staffer being the salary cap auditor
- Former players video reffing teams they played for
- Inconsistencies and favouritism in the judiciary
- Alarming drops in ratings
- The infiltration of AFL into league heartland
- The continued demise of Qld teams - the bread and butter of the NRL
- The media whinging influencing game management
- The continued, sustained and long term benefits to teams that cheat
- Constant rule changes on a whim

Is the game dying?

Just a slight detour, out of interest if the Broncos were four points clear at the top of the table would all these things bother you as much?

Richard Gardham is salary cap auditor- Schubert hasn't done it since 2013.

 

[papabear]

I don't think the only alternative to the 6 again rule was 20 penalties a game as we have never averaged 20 penalties a game pre the 6 again rule, or at least as far back as i checked since 2013. It could have stayed as is and used a more strict measure for what is a sinbinning to stop multiple penality's being abused.

If anything with the 6 again we are seeing more penalty equivalent actions in the match because the game quickly moves on from them so the ref has less accountability to justify them. I would bet that people watching the game now are saying "what the **** was that 6 again for" more than they were previously saying "what the **** was that penalty for"

I also disagree with the argument that it has brought the slightly smaller more aerobically fit / quick player in the game. There has always been room for that player, always. That is just a cheap easy justification to support this argument because it cant really be proved.

Interesting that you think the game is better now yet only watch a maximum of 37.5% of the content. Maybe these new rules do cater for the more casual fan...

again - i think most people as they get older have more responsibilities and less time for entertainment.

Maybe I just understand the rules but most of the six agains I will be yelling at the tv for (or quietly saying for them if its the opposition) for me you can see it and still with the rule teams will intentionally stick a hand on the ball or slow the ruck right down against the rules and get away with it.

IMO the game slowed down between 2006-2019 - mostly under melbourne storms reign (although you guys had a good run in there too) where spoiling teams were rewarded over positive teams. I say this as a raiders fan where we have lost games to sides like st george because they have played a bit more creatively and up tempo through out the whole game and they have finally go the biccies besides appearing a shitter side for most of the match.

I want to see the ball move, I want to see big hits, I want to be entertained. I do not want to see shit like kicking the ball away after a 7 tackle set or knocking the ball out of the fbs hands not getting penalised. Quite simply if you do not evolve the game to remove negative play you end up playing rugby union.

 

[Financeguy]

Quite simply if you do not evolve the game to remove negative play you end up playing rugby union.

Disagree here. League has enough differences from Rugby for them not to be considered the same sport regardless of the 6 again rule or not.

Talk to a Union fan and they will tell you what a better open running game Union is than league.

Championing the 6 again rule and crackdown on head high tackles because it stopped the game becoming Rugby Union is nonsense.

Again, watching only 2 to 3 games and 1 of them being your team which is no doubt watched with bias, it's easier to forgive or not see some of the poorer quality games that the new rules can influence.

 

[Sproj]

again - i think most people as they get older have more responsibilities and less time for entertainment.

Maybe I just understand the rules but most of the six agains I will be yelling at the tv for (or quietly saying for them if its the opposition) for me you can see it and still with the rule teams will intentionally stick a hand on the ball or slow the ruck right down against the rules and get away with it.

IMO the game slowed down between 2006-2019 - mostly under melbourne storms reign (although you guys had a good run in there too) where spoiling teams were rewarded over positive teams. I say this as a raiders fan where we have lost games to sides like st george because they have played a bit more creatively and up tempo through out the whole game and they have finally go the biccies besides appearing a shitter side for most of the match.

I want to see the ball move, I want to see big hits, I want to be entertained. I do not want to see shit like kicking the ball away after a 7 tackle set or knocking the ball out of the fbs hands not getting penalised. Quite simply if you do not evolve the game to remove negative play you end up playing rugby union.

I don't think anyone is against progress, it is the way it is done that is the issue. Not all of the rule changes are bad in theory but when you have incompetent (or fatigued) officials, it is going to end up resulting in different interpretations of the rules each week / each game. This then gets doubled down on by some over the top judiciary charges to try and protect on field errors by officials but not of course for some repeat offenders like JWH who always get off due to the jersey they wear.

If you are going to introduce rule changes, do some due diligence and introduce the rules with significant notice and not on the whim of a dude in charge who thinks he can do no wrong. Also, if you do make rule changes, ignore the talking heads in the media who whinge and complain, for example the penalty crackdown which would have been far better for the game in the long run than the six again has been.

No one is against the head high crackdown, no one at all but this is how it should have always been. The idea is to stamp out thug acts / illegal tackles, not penalise guys for hitting someone high who is practically on their knees and the defender has nowhere to go or time to react. Again, forethought and better planning could negate so many problems.

And everyone wants to see legal big hits but these days, often when they occur the attacking player stays down and the ref calls a penalty for being 'a bit too forceful' (the exact words from a ref). Everyone wants to see free-flowing football but not artificially contrived rubbish due to one-sided officiating.

 

[papabear]

Disagree here. League has enough differences from Rugby for them not to be considered the same sport regardless of the 6 again rule or not.

Talk to a Union fan and they will tell you what a better open running game Union is than league.

Championing the 6 again rule and crackdown on head high tackles because it stopped the game becoming Rugby Union is nonsense.

Again, watching only 2 to 3 games and 1 of them being your team which is no doubt watched with bias, it's easier to forgive or not see some of the poorer quality games that the new rules can influence.

in your opinion it is nonsense, in my opinion it is accurate.

Talk to any fan of any game and they will tell you that game x is better then game y.

Watching a couple of games a week, plus the amount I have watched over almost 4 decades of being alive, I have watched enough rugby league to know what I like.

And again in my opinion the game is better now - and the rule changes are positive. The reality is if the broncos were sitting in the top 2 instead of the bottom 2 this thread would not be being written.

There is a further question that now the game is faster, and some clubs havent been able to bridge the gap, is the game right now in a situation that even if those weaker clubs catch up to stronger clubs, will the scorelines continue to be blow outs removing some of the competitive tension in a match - that grindfests wouldnt have.

If the answer to that question is yes, I think you look at progressing the game a little more - potentially considering:-
- team scoring the try kicking off

For the life of me as someone who played a lot of union growing up, it shits me how poor NRL players have always been at short drop outs and short kick offs and outside a 1 or 2 teams who embrace it each year why more teams dont go for possession.

 

[papabear]

I don't think anyone is against progress, it is the way it is done that is the issue. Not all of the rule changes are bad in theory but when you have incompetent (or fatigued) officials, it is going to end up resulting in different interpretations of the rules each week / each game. This then gets doubled down on by some over the top judiciary charges to try and protect on field errors by officials but not of course for some repeat offenders like JWH who always get off due to the jersey they wear.

If you are going to introduce rule changes, do some due diligence and introduce the rules with significant notice and not on the whim of a dude in charge who thinks he can do no wrong. Also, if you do make rule changes, ignore the talking heads in the media who whinge and complain, for example the penalty crackdown which would have been far better for the game in the long run than the six again has been.

No one is against the head high crackdown, no one at all but this is how it should have always been. The idea is to stamp out thug acts / illegal tackles, not penalise guys for hitting someone high who is practically on their knees and the defender has nowhere to go or time to react. Again, forethought and better planning could negate so many problems.

And everyone wants to see legal big hits but these days, often when they occur the attacking player stays down and the ref calls a penalty for being 'a bit too forceful' (the exact words from a ref). Everyone wants to see free-flowing football but not artificially contrived rubbish due to one-sided officiating.

I am a canberra raiders fan.

We are famous for watching and blaming officiating.

I can attest to without a shadow of a doubt whinging at the refs in pretty much every raiders game I have watched and a lot of neutral games.

That all said:-
1 - I prefer one ref to two refs, you just get more consistency over a game. Two refs absolutely shat me.
2 - The reffing this year has been better then reffing in a long long time including last year - in my opinion the biggest reffing decisions are:-
- being clear and consistent on when the defensive line can push up.
- being clear and consistent on when a player is held and players have to release and GTFO
- making the right decision on knock ons in the play the ball - these should only be a penalty if the defensive player knocks / kicks / shoves the guy playing the ball causing the error. Players dropping the ball cold, or milking a drop far too often got this call - this has been less so this year.
3 - Go to every fan site, of every NBA or NFL side and you will see threads / game threads bitching and moaning about refs.
4 - Captains challenge is a net positive - even though the video ref, this is the first year I would be happy if he fucked off, because the on field refs have been pretty accurate. If anything it gives the players an opportunity to challenge or shut the **** up and tackle.
5 - one sided reffing happens - you could make a case it helped brisbane in 2005 - a very good case in fact. But imo it is happening less and less now - but when you are shit and i say this as a canberra fan (who will need help from the refs tonite) you need more 50-50 calls and 70-30 calls go your way to get the win, when they tend to go the better performing sides way so it hurts doubly more.

Look I enjoy blaming the refs as much as anyone - I still havent gotten over the 2019 GF but again it is what it is, and they are improving.

 

[Financeguy]

The reality is if the broncos were sitting in the top 2 instead of the bottom 2 this thread would not be being written.

Well i am a Broncos fan and voted that i still love the game so best not to decide you understand and can guarantee the minds of people starting the thread as part of a discussion which is the purpose of coming on here.

There is a further question that now the game is faster, and some clubs havent been able to bridge the gap, is the game right now in a situation that even if those weaker clubs catch up to stronger clubs, will the scorelines continue to be blow outs removing some of the competitive tension in a match - that grindfests wouldnt have.

If the answer to that question is yes, I think you look at progressing the game a little more - potentially considering:-
- team scoring the try kicking off

It's pretty well agreed by fans, commentators and current players that the momentum is now harder than ever turn around once it is going against you. Receiving or taking the kickoff can both be a benefit depending on the current status of the game, i am not opposed to having this explored though but would rather it be in trials rather than introduced in round 5 of a season.

For the life of me as someone who played a lot of union growing up, it shits me how poor NRL players have always been at short drop outs and short kick offs and outside a 1 or 2 teams who embrace it each year why more teams dont go for possession.

Meh, risk and reward...most teams utilise it when they are behind so that's already sorted. Team and coach will look like idiots if they use it off the kick off in a semi final and either the opposition get the ball only 60 meters out on the first tackle or worse, they give away a penalty for a kick out on the full or not going the 10 and are down 6 nil after 3 minutes.


There is still a joy in seeing a defensive focused game where points are at a premium. Our 7 point GF against the Storm was a great game with only 23 points scored. The Panthers v Storm game earlier in the year was, imo, one of the best this year and the score was 12-10 and the commentators even mentioned how it was "old school"

I don't need 10 try's a game scored to enjoy it but as casual fans make up the bulk of the audience maybe that is a better type of game for them to watch.

 

[Renegade]

And again in my opinion the game is better now - and the rule changes are positive. The reality is if the broncos were sitting in the top 2 instead of the bottom 2 this thread would not be being written.

The rule changes aren't necessarily bad, it's just

1) They've come in mid season
2) They aren't consistent
3) Their implementation has resulted in record blowout scorelines each week.

It's low hanging fruit to suggest if Brisbane were topping the comp that we wouldn't have an issue.

 

[tommy]

The 6 again rule has fucked it, but I still watch 2 or 3 games a week. The women’s soo is pretty much proof how shit the 6 again has made the game. Go back to penalties.

 

[Sproj]

I am a canberra raiders fan.

We are famous for watching and blaming officiating.

I can attest to without a shadow of a doubt whinging at the refs in pretty much every raiders game I have watched and a lot of neutral games.

That all said:-
1 - I prefer one ref to two refs, you just get more consistency over a game. Two refs absolutely shat me.
2 - The reffing this year has been better then reffing in a long long time including last year - in my opinion the biggest reffing decisions are:-
- being clear and consistent on when the defensive line can push up.
- being clear and consistent on when a player is held and players have to release and GTFO
- making the right decision on knock ons in the play the ball - these should only be a penalty if the defensive player knocks / kicks / shoves the guy playing the ball causing the error. Players dropping the ball cold, or milking a drop far too often got this call - this has been less so this year.
3 - Go to every fan site, of every NBA or NFL side and you will see threads / game threads bitching and moaning about refs.
4 - Captains challenge is a net positive - even though the video ref, this is the first year I would be happy if he fucked off, because the on field refs have been pretty accurate. If anything it gives the players an opportunity to challenge or shut the **** up and tackle.
5 - one sided reffing happens - you could make a case it helped brisbane in 2005 - a very good case in fact. But imo it is happening less and less now - but when you are shit and i say this as a canberra fan (who will need help from the refs tonite) you need more 50-50 calls and 70-30 calls go your way to get the win, when they tend to go the better performing sides way so it hurts doubly more.

Look I enjoy blaming the refs as much as anyone - I still havent gotten over the 2019 GF but again it is what it is, and they are improving.

I appreciate your well thought and argued replies, I feel like this is a really interesting discussion and is what I've been hoping for by starting this thread.

I think you are right in that a lot of it comes down to opinion and bias and particularly so when you team sucks, which the Broncos very much do and unfortunately for you guys, the Raiders too.

I do not think you can prove the refereeing is better, I feel like this is all very arguable and in fact, I think the 6-agains have given rise to perhaps making it look like refereeing has become better when in actual fact, it is more that the game is faster and therefore, errors in the 6-again are missed, moved on to fast or not made accountable because as almost everyone agrees, we often have no idea what they are for.

Also, it is well known on here that I personally have stopped watching any game not involving the Broncs, so my opinion may well be skewed. However, from what I saw in the games I watched earlier in the year, teams up to the top of the ladder, notably Penrith and Parramatta, generally live offside. You can watch any replay from earlier in the year and if you focus on that, you will see it very clearly. However, as soon as the other team has a player offside, they are often penalised. This does not make good officiating.

Is one ref better than two? Under the old rules, I would have likely agreed however under the new rules, if the players are playing more under fatigue due to faster games, it isn't logical to think the same won't happen to the refs.

In addition, in the games I have watched, the captain's challenge is often correct / incorrect due to a technicality or in our club's case, stupidity in choosing which calls to challenge.

And this is not meant to be a full on go at the refs, I am sure they do as well as they can under a set of extremely challenging circumstances. I argue the refs are being asked to officiate too much and are provided very little support from the powers that be or sidelines - don't get be started on the touchies, how you can miss 3m forward passes regularly is beyond me.

The reality is, the officiating in my opinion is helping the ruin the game because the powers that be make massive changes on a whim and the poor refs cop the brunt of it. If clubs are confused about it all, I find it unlikely the refs wouldn't be at times either. Take for example our win against the Roosters, there is no way we win that without the massive leg ups we received from the whistle blower.

Then the farce that is the salary cap and now rewarding mercenaries for hire and making the best better and the worst somehow worse, this isn't professional at all.

 

[papabear]

Well i am a Broncos fan and voted that i still love the game so best not to decide you understand and can guarantee the minds of people starting the thread as part of a discussion which is the purpose of coming on here.


It's pretty well agreed by fans, commentators and current players that the momentum is now harder than ever turn around once it is going against you. Receiving or taking the kickoff can both be a benefit depending on the current status of the game, i am not opposed to having this explored though but would rather it be in trials rather than introduced in round 5 of a season.


Meh, risk and reward...most teams utilise it when they are behind so that's already sorted. Team and coach will look like idiots if they use it off the kick off in a semi final and either the opposition get the ball only 60 meters out on the first tackle or worse, they give away a penalty for a kick out on the full or not going the 10 and are down 6 nil after 3 minutes.


There is still a joy in seeing a defensive focused game where points are at a premium. Our 7 point GF against the Storm was a great game with only 23 points scored. The Panthers v Storm game earlier in the year was, imo, one of the best this year and the score was 12-10 and the commentators even mentioned how it was "old school"

I don't need 10 try's a game scored to enjoy it but as casual fans make up the bulk of the audience maybe that is a better type of game for them to watch.

1 - you didnt start this thread - and without going back into the annuls of history of this board, I doubt a thread like this was up in 2015.
2 - I agree - teams are struggling to turn momentum - except against the raiders - butthis may change or maybe as i said it needs to be looked at.
3 - Good defense is fine and entertaining I agree. the first 60 minutes of the broncos and bulldogs wasnt good defence more - just a steaming pile of shit, even under the new rules it was slow.

Faster games can have good defence still. In fact it will likely put a premium on it, as you may not be able to get as many numbers into a tackle making technique more important.

 

[papabear]

I appreciate your well thought and argued replies, I feel like this is a really interesting discussion and is what I've been hoping for by starting this thread.

I think you are right in that a lot of it comes down to opinion and bias and particularly so when you team sucks, which the Broncos very much do and unfortunately for you guys, the Raiders too.

I do not think you can prove the refereeing is better, I feel like this is all very arguable and in fact, I think the 6-agains have given rise to perhaps making it look like refereeing has become better when in actual fact, it is more that the game is faster and therefore, errors in the 6-again are missed, moved on to fast or not made accountable because as almost everyone agrees, we often have no idea what they are for.

Also, it is well known on here that I personally have stopped watching any game not involving the Broncs, so my opinion may well be skewed. However, from what I saw in the games I watched earlier in the year, teams up to the top of the ladder, notably Penrith and Parramatta, generally live offside. You can watch any replay from earlier in the year and if you focus on that, you will see it very clearly. However, as soon as the other team has a player offside, they are often penalised. This does not make good officiating.

Is one ref better than two? Under the old rules, I would have likely agreed however under the new rules, if the players are playing more under fatigue due to faster games, it isn't logical to think the same won't happen to the refs.

In addition, in the games I have watched, the captain's challenge is often correct / incorrect due to a technicality or in our club's case, stupidity in choosing which calls to challenge.

And this is not meant to be a full on go at the refs, I am sure they do as well as they can under a set of extremely challenging circumstances. I argue the refs are being asked to officiate too much and are provided very little support from the powers that be or sidelines - don't get be started on the touchies, how you can miss 3m forward passes regularly is beyond me.

The reality is, the officiating in my opinion is helping the ruin the game because the powers that be make massive changes on a whim and the poor refs cop the brunt of it. If clubs are confused about it all, I find it unlikely the refs wouldn't be at times either. Take for example our win against the Roosters, there is no way we win that without the massive leg ups we received from the whistle blower.

Then the farce that is the salary cap and now rewarding mercenaries for hire and making the best better and the worst somehow worse, this isn't professional at all.

Regarding two refs - I dont mind 1, 2 , 3 ,4 ,5 refs and touchies - however many officials. What I didnt like about two refs was having two guys who had different approaches to a game doing different sets / different ten metres / different rucks etc etc swapping in and out.

If you bring another ref on the field to help - you have to have it very clear who is responsible for which decisions and that remains the same through out the match so it is more consistent.

Better teams are generally fitter and have more possession - so they tend to have faster line speed and are in the grey area between offside and onside way way more. I agree they should be pinged and you do see imo more pings for offside/inside the ten with restarts now then you did with a penalty - I agree there should be more. Rugby League for too long lets players get away with bullshit on a effort verse reward type reffing which i think should be cracked down on. Problem is every crack down - fans / media get upset and the same old bullshit is often trotted out later, maybe only fixing a little bit.

The thing with being a shit side is, you can always dig yourself out of it and be a good side.

Regarding the salary cap / juniors / mercenaries etc - I think this is an area the NRL needs to look at the thing is leagues clubs pour in money to junior RL and I doubt they would if clubs werent able to retain control of them.

 

[Nashy]

1 - you didnt start this thread - and without going back into the annuls of history of this board, I doubt a thread like this was up in 2015.
2 - I agree - teams are struggling to turn momentum - except against the raiders - butthis may change or maybe as i said it needs to be looked at.
3 - Good defense is fine and entertaining I agree. the first 60 minutes of the broncos and bulldogs wasnt good defence more - just a steaming pile of shit, even under the new rules it was slow.

Faster games can have good defence still. In fact it will likely put a premium on it, as you may not be able to get as many numbers into a tackle making technique more important.

Which major game changing rule changes were made that year? I'll go and take a look for you.

 

[Financeguy]

1 - you didnt start this thread - and without going back into the annuls of history of this board, I doubt a thread like this was up in 2015.

The game didn’t go through multiple rule change implementations which measurably caused blowout results in games so no…thread probably wasn’t started in 2015…

 

[Galah]

I’m off it! It’s got nothing to do with the broncos, I can’t even get halfway through the second half with two neutral teams playing while I’m drinking beer.

I’ll never understand why got rid of a ref, if anything we need more refs, these players literally train how to game the system. So you want one ref doing ruck control and 10m ok sweet idea.

I hate the 6 again but I reckon it wouldn’t be half as inconsistent if they had more then one ref.

simple shit guys, ****!

 

[Aldo]

They need to get a balance between speed of the game and contest in defence. Simple answer is to go back to when the refs were penalising the shit out of Melbourne. Game was good.

 

[Harry Sack]

I don't know what's causing it tbh. I still watch every Broncos game but I find myself far less interested in the rest simply because of the imbalance in the competition. I tune into every game, if I'm able and there have been some absolutely great ones this year...but more often than not, one team gets the ascendancy early and it's game over. At which point it becomes background noise instead of my focus. This is something that would not change if the Broncos were going well.