Best 17 you can make from a club’s current and active former players

[Big Pete]

First team is off the top of my head.

Newcastle Knights

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Dominic Young
3. Dane Gagai
4. Bradman Best
5. Jacob Kiraz
6. Fletcher Sharpe
7. Jake Clifford
8. Daniel Saifiti
9. Connor Watson
10. Mitchell Barnett
11. Dylan Lucas
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Kurt Mann
16. David Klemmer
17. Josh King

I could be talked out of that bench, but I just wanted to put together some food for thought. Shibasaki is somewhat unlucky, but I see him as a left side centre and Gem had the better season, Best is the more talented player.

Tapine and Barnett obviously improve their pack and they get some genuine strike in their dummy half rotation in Watson and Starling. Mann gives them that utility option off the bench and that's one of those selections that likely won't age well but right here right now looks pretty sweet.

Halves are still an issue. Sharpe had some moments this year but is still obviously raw. The halfback situation is a nightmare but unless you're going to cheat and include lower grade players like Pezet and Hosking it is what it is.

Now let's see which names I missed.

Oh Kiraz never played first grade for Newcastle. My bad we'll just keep Marzhew there. If I was feeling frisky, we can throw Meaney there but it's Monday and it's going to be a looooooooong week.

Jesse Ramien - Yeah put him over Gags. I'm not a huge fan but Gags is basically all effort these days.

To be honest I'm not seeing too many other big names. We're looking at players like Jenkins, Randall, Keeley etc. who are fine but I doubt anyone at Newcastle has FOMO over them.

So revised team:

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Dominic Young
3. Jesse Ramien
4. Bradman Best
5. Greg Marzhew
6. Fletcher Sharpe
7. Jake Clifford
8. Daniel Saifiti
9. Connor Watson
10. Mitchell Barnett
11. Dylan Lucas
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Kurt Mann
16. David Klemmer
17. Josh King

 

[john1420]

do you know how good herbie farnworth is, he is elite, hes a huge upgrade

Hmmm, do I know how good Herbie is? Yes I do, I have been following the game for 34 years now, so I have a reasonable idea of player ability.

The question is do you know how good Staggs and Shibasaki are?

Staggs was in the conversation for Origin and has made the Aust team. He and Herbie are different players, and bring different strengths and weaknesses, but in their own way each are elite. I won't argue that Herbie isn't elite, he just isn't an upgrade on Staggs.

Shiba came from obscurity into the QLD Origin team, and now selected for Aus. I agree you wouldn't call him elite yet, but still very good. So yes you can argue that Herbie is an upgrade on Shiba, but I don't know I could go as far as 'huge'. Is he better? Yeah. Is he hugely better? I don't think so. When you factor in value for money salary cap wise, then I don't think Herbie replacing Shiba improves the team overall due to the loss you'll have to take elsewhere (I fully confess I have gone beyond the scope of the question though with that)

And now, to really get into the heart of the matter, I responded to your post claiming that Herbie, Coates and Fifita would improve us. My response was maybe to Herbie (I agreed he was better, but challenged the amount) and said no to Coates and Fifita. You respond to me, ignoring Coates and Fifita, and questioning if I know how good Herbie is - the only one of the three I actually at least semi-agreed with you about. I think you are being somewhat disingenuous in your reply @Hoshsie

 

[Harry Sack]

Are we talking about players ability right now or are we talking players at their best? Because at their best, players like Fifita and Cobbloaf come right back into the equation IMO.

 

[BroncsFan]

Are we talking about players ability right now or are we talking players at their best? Because at their best, players like Fifita and Cobbloaf come right back into the equation IMO.

I think it's meant to be form right now... to get an idea of how strong a team would be if they were able to keep all their players.

So Flegler isnt in the team for us, because he's been injured for like 2 years

 

[BroncsFan]

First team is off the top of my head.

Newcastle Knights

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Dominic Young
3. Dane Gagai
4. Bradman Best
5. Jacob Kiraz
6. Fletcher Sharpe
7. Jake Clifford
8. Daniel Saifiti
9. Connor Watson
10. Mitchell Barnett
11. Dylan Lucas
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Kurt Mann
16. David Klemmer
17. Josh King

I could be talked out of that bench, but I just wanted to put together some food for thought. Shibasaki is somewhat unlucky, but I see him as a left side centre and Gem had the better season, Best is the more talented player.

Tapine and Barnett obviously improve their pack and they get some genuine strike in their dummy half rotation in Watson and Starling. Mann gives them that utility option off the bench and that's one of those selections that likely won't age well but right here right now looks pretty sweet.

Halves are still an issue. Sharpe had some moments this year but is still obviously raw. The halfback situation is a nightmare but unless you're going to cheat and include lower grade players like Pezet and Hosking it is what it is.

Now let's see which names I missed.

Oh Kiraz never played first grade for Newcastle. My bad we'll just keep Marzhew there. If I was feeling frisky, we can throw Meaney there but it's Monday and it's going to be a looooooooong week.

Jesse Ramien - Yeah put him over Gags. I'm not a huge fan but Gags is basically all effort these days.

To be honest I'm not seeing too many other big names. We're looking at players like Jenkins, Randall, Keeley etc. who are fine but I doubt anyone at Newcastle has FOMO over them.

So revised team:

1. Kalyn Ponga
2. Dominic Young
3. Jesse Ramien
4. Bradman Best
5. Greg Marzhew
6. Fletcher Sharpe
7. Jake Clifford
8. Daniel Saifiti
9. Connor Watson
10. Mitchell Barnett
11. Dylan Lucas
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Joseph Tapine

14. Tom Starling
15. Kurt Mann
16. David Klemmer
17. Josh King

That team looks pretty average if Im honest.

Marzhew and Young cant defend on the wing, Sharpe in his first year as a 6 but looked out of place, barely a halfback, bench doesnt look great and is KPP seriously the second best 2nd rowers they've got running around the league?

I think he's nowhere near his potential, but knights barely used him properly. Keen to see him go around with the Tigers if they let him actually offload.

Would be interested if guys from the general catchment are spliced in, because I'm pretty sure guys like Latrell and other genuine stars were in the Newcastle footy comps.

Haas was around Newcastle somewhere wasnt he?

 

[Sproj]

Here's my attempt at it on who has been at the Knights but not who came through there. I know Haas did for one.

1. Ponga
2. Young
3. Shibasaki
4. Best
5. Gagai
6. Pryce
7. Clifford
8. Barnett
9. Brailey
10. Haas
11. Frizell
12. Fitzgibbon
13. Tapine

14. Watson
15. Saifiti
16. Saifiti
17. Mann

18. Starling
19. Meaney
20. Thompson
21. Pearce-Paul
22. Jenkins
23. Elliott
24. Ramien
25. Ese'ese
26. King

 

[Dash]

Haas moved to Qld when he was 13. Not sure Newcastle have much claim to him.

 

[Big Pete]

Would be interested if guys from the general catchment are spliced in, because I'm pretty sure guys like Latrell and other genuine stars were in the Newcastle footy comps.

That would also give them Hudson Young, Zac Hosking and Jonah Pezet.

Dash - Fair call on Haas. Bare minimum, they have to represent the actual club - if they played while wearing your jersey you can claim them.

For instance:

Hudson Young

Jonah Pezet

Zac Hosking

Sam McIntyre

 

[BroncsFan]

Haas moved to Qld when he was 13. Not sure Newcastle have much claim to him.

For some reason I thought he made the move to Keebra when he was 16 or so, but I get lost in all of Haas' movements.

Wahs were in the mix at one point, but did he spend time in their system or was he just making a decision between us and them?

 

[Big Pete]

Interesting list Sproj.

Maybe I'm a bigger fan of Sharpe than most, but I'd find room for him in the team.

If not five-eighth (I was never sold on Pryce) than certainly wing.

I'm also a stickler for players being picked on their preferred sides and don't see either Best or Shibasaki fairing that well on the right.

I don't mind the Fitzgibbon shout although I'd take Dylan Lucas over him easily.

Prime Gagai and Frizell would be easy picks but since both are in the twilight of their careers I'm not that fussed on either.

Similar story with Brailey, if we're talking prime Brailey than it'd be a toss up between the three but this year he's easily behind the other two.

 

[Xzei]

Surely a young klemmer gets a run somewhere in that list hell even old klemmer

 

[1910]

For some reason I thought he made the move to Keebra when he was 16 or so, but I get lost in all of Haas' movements.

Wahs were in the mix at one point, but did he spend time in their system or was he just making a decision between us and them?

Did QAS pathways at 14 and made the Queensland U15 team. He was at Keebra his whole secondary school.

Warriors had him over there at 15 and Kearney lost his mind at his first graders because they were getting outdone by a 15-year-old in fitness.

 

[Hoshsie]

Hmmm, do I know how good Herbie is? Yes I do, I have been following the game for 34 years now, so I have a reasonable idea of player ability.

The question is do you know how good Staggs and Shibasaki are?

Staggs was in the conversation for Origin and has made the Aust team. He and Herbie are different players, and bring different strengths and weaknesses, but in their own way each are elite. I won't argue that Herbie isn't elite, he just isn't an upgrade on Staggs.

Shiba came from obscurity into the QLD Origin team, and now selected for Aus. I agree you wouldn't call him elite yet, but still very good. So yes you can argue that Herbie is an upgrade on Shiba, but I don't know I could go as far as 'huge'. Is he better? Yeah. Is he hugely better? I don't think so. When you factor in value for money salary cap wise, then I don't think Herbie replacing Shiba improves the team overall due to the loss you'll have to take elsewhere (I fully confess I have gone beyond the scope of the question though with that)

And now, to really get into the heart of the matter, I responded to your post claiming that Herbie, Coates and Fifita would improve us. My response was maybe to Herbie (I agreed he was better, but challenged the amount) and said no to Coates and Fifita. You respond to me, ignoring Coates and Fifita, and questioning if I know how good Herbie is - the only one of the three I actually at least semi-agreed with you about. I think you are being somewhat disingenuous in your reply @Hoshsie

I think herbie is hugely better than shiba, also i disagree with you about fifita and coates aswell but i just left it out cause i really disagreed with you about herbie not being a huge improvement

Also, you call me being disingenuous, yet you are talking about value of salary cap, like this isnt just a fun 'would this mythical team beat this team. obviously, salary cap conditions shouldnt be involved in this conversation'

Also this is a footy forum chill out, we arent having an intellectual debate, where we have to call out being disingenuous (which i wasnt)

 

[john1420]

I think herbie is hugely better than shiba, also i disagree with you about fifita and coates aswell but i just left it out cause i really disagreed with you about herbie not being a huge improvement

Also, you call me being disingenuous, yet you are talking about value of salary cap, like this isnt just a fun 'would this mythical team beat this team. obviously, salary cap conditions shouldnt be involved in this conversation'

Also this is a footy forum chill out, we arent having an intellectual debate, where we have to call out being disingenuous (which i wasnt)

All cool fella, I definitely admitted to potentially going beyond the scope of the chat by thinking about value for money - but the thread title is "the best 17 you can make...." It doesn't say within the cap but it doesn't say ignore it either, so it's interpretive.

Also there's nothing I've said that calls for 'chilling out'......have you seen some of the posts here? Crikey!

 

[Hoshsie]

All cool fella, I definitely admitted to potentially going beyond the scope of the chat by thinking about value for money - but the thread title is "the best 17 you can make...." It doesn't say within the cap but it doesn't say ignore it either, so it's interpretive.

Also there's nothing I've said that calls for 'chilling out'......have you seen some of the posts here? Crikey!

yeah, that was the wrong choice of words from me

 

[Mustafur]

Hmmm, do I know how good Herbie is? Yes I do, I have been following the game for 34 years now, so I have a reasonable idea of player ability.

The question is do you know how good Staggs and Shibasaki are?

Staggs was in the conversation for Origin and has made the Aust team. He and Herbie are different players, and bring different strengths and weaknesses, but in their own way each are elite. I won't argue that Herbie isn't elite, he just isn't an upgrade on Staggs.

Shiba came from obscurity into the QLD Origin team, and now selected for Aus. I agree you wouldn't call him elite yet, but still very good. So yes you can argue that Herbie is an upgrade on Shiba, but I don't know I could go as far as 'huge'. Is he better? Yeah. Is he hugely better? I don't think so. When you factor in value for money salary cap wise, then I don't think Herbie replacing Shiba improves the team overall due to the loss you'll have to take elsewhere (I fully confess I have gone beyond the scope of the question though with that)

And now, to really get into the heart of the matter, I responded to your post claiming that Herbie, Coates and Fifita would improve us. My response was maybe to Herbie (I agreed he was better, but challenged the amount) and said no to Coates and Fifita. You respond to me, ignoring Coates and Fifita, and questioning if I know how good Herbie is - the only one of the three I actually at least semi-agreed with you about. I think you are being somewhat disingenuous in your reply @Hoshsie

Shiba loses to herbie in Speed/Agility and line punching ability but he is way ahead in creating abilities and instinct for finding holes to run in, work rate I think they are similar.