Hit ups by backs coming out of our end

[coreyh88]

I know this is so minor compared to everything else going on, but I wonder if anyone else has noticed it.

Our backs seem to be over eager and killing any momentum. I've noticed whether it's the second set of the half or the fifteenth. Our backs will take up to 4 hit ups in a set while our forwards are standing around ready and willing.

Means we've been playing on the back foot right from the start.

 

[mitch222]

None of the current backs are capable of making 10 metres a hitup consistently especially the back 3
Miss Moga and Oates metres big time

 

[winslow_wong]

Four hit ups in a set by the backs is either terrible coaching or lazy forwards. None of our forwards run onto the ball anyway and if they do they’ll knock it on (see flegler)

 

[Unbreakable]

None of the current backs are capable of making 10 metres a hitup consistently especially the back 3
Miss Moga and Oates metres big time

This is the biggest issue and part of the reason I wasn't as happy to let Shibasaki go as others were. Yeah his hands are rubbish, but the guy knows how to make metres. Consistently 120+ running metres, most of which are out of trouble. Better defensively than any of our current crop as well.

People also talk about modern day wingers and how they have to be tall and fast, yet they leave out the most important attributes.. they need to be willing to do the dirty work and strong enough to make reliable metres each run. That's why guys like Maumalo, Tupou, To'o, Mansour, Nofoaluma, etc are so valuable. Not because of their try scoring ability, but because of their work rate and ability to make consistent metres out of trouble.

 

[Huge]

None of the current backs are capable of making 10 metres a hitup consistently especially the back 3
Miss Moga and Oates metres big time

I like where you're going with this. One of the problems we have(we're not alone here) is the forwards KNOW that the playbook instruction is 'after the winger/fullback fields the ball, the remaining two of the three take the next two hit ups'. It's the standard response and expected by the coach.

I wouldn't allow it. I'd say to those three if you've fielded the kick, take your sweet mother fucking time getting up, hell I'd tell them to pretend a hurt ankle or knee. My accompanying instruction would be to the captain, or on field boss to get his gorillas over to the ptb quick fucking smart because every single one of them walks slowly back on side.

Everyone of them, without exception and in every match dawdles back expecting the hitups to bring the ad line to them. Sometimes a forward doesn't even make a single hitup in a whole set and I wrote about this years ago. It's an area that we aren't exploiting. What prompted me to look at it was the observation that from a set start , say a tap restart the defence line is standing stock still and usually exactly 10 metres away and the first hitup gets between 8-10 metres a carry.

Everyone in the defence line has to be moving up because the ball can easily be spun wider. That however is never the case when a winger or fullback is taking the ball up because the defence can clearly see there is only one threat who can get the ball and consequently only a couple of defenders need move leaving the rest to pick off the next easy hitup.

The way I'd do it is to have forwards ready to go hard. Blokes in the team for just that job. Sure, my way is 'not in the spirit of the game' but neithers wrestling and it's now standard practice.

 

[Allo]

Coates will start running over people as he fills out, and he’s trying but is just not as effective as the others.

I’m not sure if it was a directive or if he was gun-shy but Isaako constantly passing back in to Tesi last week pissed me off.

It comes back to our players not running hard, fast and fighting and scrapping for every inch in tackles

 

[Skathen]

Watching some other teams, their backs are not afraid to toss it around a bit. We stick to the manta of run to the middle of the park, simple footy, don't drop it. The defenders even cram into the middle for our first 2 tackles as least as there's almost no point defending the whole line.

I'd love to see our fullback dart one side or another if it's lightly defended with a winger in there to pick up a pass or be there for a dummy to at least cast some doubt in their minds as to where the play is going to move. Don't have to skirt the side-line and risk getting pushed out, but at least use the park!

That and run onto the damn ball at pace - so often the first receiver is barely moving. Absolutely kills the momentum and costs territory.

 

[Renegade]

This is the biggest issue and part of the reason I wasn't as happy to let Shibasaki go as others were. Yeah his hands are rubbish, but the guy knows how to make metres. Consistently 120+ running metres, most of which are out of trouble. Better defensively than any of our current crop as well.

what are you talking about, you shat on shibasaki with the rest of us?

 

[Twbapony]

Look at Parra, they have some good go forward in their backs, but their forwards are back and ready to take 3-5. Ours are still walking back on the 4th hit up. I agree with the need for a willingness to do what you need for the TEAM, not your own agenda, which is something that we are really seeing in the top 4 teams. Look at how pumped Nathan Clearly was and how he was involved with everything last Sunday. Left it all on the field for the team, or Boyd Cordner in golden point vs the Scum where he could barely stand at the end of the game. Lets get that attitude into our entire organisation.

 

[Big Del]

I like where you're going with this. One of the problems we have(we're not alone here) is the forwards KNOW that the playbook instruction is 'after the winger/fullback fields the ball, the remaining two of the three take the next two hit ups'. It's the standard response and expected by the coach.

I wouldn't allow it. I'd say to those three if you've fielded the kick, take your sweet mother fucking time getting up, hell I'd tell them to pretend a hurt ankle or knee. My accompanying instruction would be to the captain, or on field boss to get his gorillas over to the ptb quick fucking smart because every single one of them walks slowly back on side.

Everyone of them, without exception and in every match dawdles back expecting the hitups to bring the ad line to them. Sometimes a forward doesn't even make a single hitup in a whole set and I wrote about this years ago. It's an area that we aren't exploiting. What prompted me to look at it was the observation that from a set start , say a tap restart the defence line is standing stock still and usually exactly 10 metres away and the first hitup gets between 8-10 metres a carry.

Everyone in the defence line has to be moving up because the ball can easily be spun wider. That however is never the case when a winger or fullback is taking the ball up because the defence can clearly see there is only one threat who can get the ball and consequently only a couple of defenders need move leaving the rest to pick off the next easy hitup.

The way I'd do it is to have forwards ready to go hard. Blokes in the team for just that job. Sure, my way is 'not in the spirit of the game' but neithers wrestling and it's now standard practice.

Backs have taken the 1st 3- 4 hit ups for years . The the lock on the 5th - followed by a kick .

The reason the forwards don`t run back behind the ball is to save energy for attack in the opposition half / quarter . If they ran back behind the ball every set they wouldn`t have any energy left .
Have you actually been watching games ? Or do you have a new way of increasing fitness and endurance that the sharpest minds in the business haven`t considered yet ?

 

[theshed]

Backs have taken the 1st 3- 4 hit ups for years . The the lock on the 5th - followed by a kick .

The reason the forwards don`t run back behind the ball is to save energy for attack in the opposition half / quarter . If they ran back behind the ball every set they wouldn`t have any energy left .
Have you actually been watching games ? Or do you have a new way of increasing fitness and endurance that the sharpest minds in the business haven`t considered yet ?

Yeah teams literally base kicking games on turning opposition forwards around and tiring them out.

 

[Big Del]

Yeah teams literally base kicking games on turning opposition forwards around and tiring them out.

Getting players fatigued is how you make room for play makers - half a step slower and a break is made or an offload is delivered .
Making your forwards more fatigued is a sure way to loosen up the ruck and see lots more offloads .

There are very good reasons these strategies have become the norm .They work ...

Rugby League today is not the same game it was when we were kids . eg 10 m rule vs 5 yards - gotta be a lot fitter .

 

[BroncsFan]

Look at Parra, they have some good go forward in their backs, but their forwards are back and ready to take 3-5. Ours are still walking back on the 4th hit up. I agree with the need for a willingness to do what you need for the TEAM, not your own agenda, which is something that we are really seeing in the top 4 teams. Look at how pumped Nathan Clearly was and how he was involved with everything last Sunday. Left it all on the field for the team, or Boyd Cordner in golden point vs the Scum where he could barely stand at the end of the game. Lets get that attitude into our entire organisation.

It's their defence that is helping with that though.

The forwards exert their energy through fast line speed... this causes the opposition to kick off the back foot deep inside their half. Gutho catches on the full and sprints it back. Tackle one is about 30m out from their goal line whereas the defence were probably at the opposition 40m or the 50m line.

Tackles 2 & 3 are taken from Fergo, Sivo, etc. and by tackle 3 or 4 it's back to the 50m line and the forwards have only walked about 10-20m to get their energy back.

It's pretty stock standard sort of play.

What is letting us down is conceding 60m sets which allows the opposition to put up attacking kicks within our half and trap us in the corner... our outside backs are then getting pummeled on tackles 1, 2 and 3, and by tackle 4 we're lucky to be at the 30m line and having to kick from deep inside our own half off the back foot.

Rinse and repeat until we concede a try.

Rugby in any sort of format (league or union) is all about field position and our lack of energy in defence means we have zero.

 

[gUt]

I think it all points back to our pack getting ambushed by the six-again rule change no one saw coming. We had assembled a pack of mainly young giants who are for the most part not suited to the new faster game. Compounded by a crop of insipid backs and resultant penalties.

 

[BroncsFan]

I think it all points back to our pack getting ambushed by the six-again rule change no one saw coming. We had assembled a pack of mainly young giants who are for the most part not suited to the new faster game. Compounded by a crop of insipid backs and resultant penalties.

Yeah I think the most important forwards for the modern game are your middle forwards.

You need 5 competent middle forwards that can keep up with the pace of the game and we focussed our recruitment on big powerful forwards... noting that they would get cheap meters up the field from penalties and adequate rests from tactical penalties when the line is shot.

When the rules changed and it became apparent that Offa and Flegler were struggling (on top of Lodge struggling with fitness), I think we should've looked at our squad and identified who was appropriate for the modern game.

Out of our squad I think Bullemor is someone who could've looked at getting a little more game time... reports from those in the know suggest that he's a middle in the form of Carrigan (workhorse slog it out middle with some mobility).

I like that they are currently using Teo as that 5th/6th middle forward off the bench... he's big enough and physical enough to play in the middle compared to his glory days on the edge

But it is quite apparent that there is a significant drop off when the bench come on for Haas and Carrigan

 

[rnabokov]

It's their defence that is helping with that though.

...
Rugby in any sort of format (league or union) is all about field position and our lack of energy in defence means we have zero.

... and, it will stay that way until the shit mental attitude of our players, the psychology behind our failure, is addressed. Nothing changes until then.

 

[Huge]

Backs have taken the 1st 3- 4 hit ups for years . The the lock on the 5th - followed by a kick .

The reason the forwards don`t run back behind the ball is to save energy for attack in the opposition half / quarter . If they ran back behind the ball every set they wouldn`t have any energy left .
Have you actually been watching games ? Or do you have a new way of increasing fitness and endurance that the sharpest minds in the business haven`t considered yet ?

Golly gosh, I didn't notice that. Wow. Now saving energy is the focus. I would have thought that watching 8-10 tries blow past them and making 200 more tackles would have been more taxing but no, getting onside is the issue.

Of course my way causes the defence across the park to engage tiring them out further, gains better metreage and doesn't result in lightweight fullbacks, wingers and centres getting bashed blunting their effectiveness in attack but hey, they don't need energy then for attack in the opposition half / quarter because the fresh, energy filled forwards are going to do the work.

When the Broncos had Lote and Wendell as big strong wingers it worked so well that other teams started imitating the strategy but we don't have those origin and international standard wingers anymore. Back then it was a one two punch and sometimes a three four. It was effective.

I can't see why thinking of new ways to combat a problem causes such butthurt and with 20 minute stints, forwards wouldn't have a problem with fitness. Yes, I've seen the odd ten thousand games and I'm hardly reinventing the wheel here, just suggesting a tweek and my thinking for it.

 

[Huge]

Look at Parra, they have some good go forward in their backs, but their forwards are back and ready to take 3-5. Ours are still walking back on the 4th hit up. I agree with the need for a willingness to do what you need for the TEAM, not your own agenda, which is something that we are really seeing in the top 4 teams. Look at how pumped Nathan Clearly was and how he was involved with everything last Sunday. Left it all on the field for the team, or Boyd Cordner in golden point vs the Scum where he could barely stand at the end of the game. Lets get that attitude into our entire organisation.

Too much commonsense displayed here! I'd just bend the rules a little to give my forwards more time to get there for the 3-5 hitups PLUS I'd make sure my onfield general made sure it happened!