It's time to look to the top

Wayne is not going anywhere except on his terms barring a few bottom 8 finishes in a row or major scandal. Sack the coach isn’t helpful or realistic (says the Milf to fullback guy). More a case of the right support roles, retool recruitment and I’d suggest it is time for the ceo or board to have a frank chat with Wayne about the strategic plan, seemingly player favouritism and other rot creeping into the culture. Can’t tell Wayne off but why can’t you tell him that this is a huge worry and maybe he needs a fresh look at the situation because it all seems to be getting out of control.
 
007 said:
I understand where you are coming from. The best judge will be his reaction and the players ability to react also, we don't have terrible cattle, in fact we have a top 4 roster. So if Wayne cannot make the correct decisions over the next few weeks with starting sides and also getting the team to respond at training, then possibly we do need to look at whats stale. We will never be given a public discussion on what is wrong with the roster from WB, so even if he knows there are player issues - it will all be discussed behind closed doors.


However the following issues present itself if WB was to be chopped publicly:

1) We suddenly look like a club in dissaray and unprofessional
2) We don't have another coaching option
3) We need to settle player contracts before this can be thought of. A club with no coach, especially sacking WB would not be appealing to any player. Its also would serve as a big history marker - the year WB was cut. How will that affect the club long term?
4) It would let the players off the hook and delay future roster changes, when potentially the problem is both roster AND strategy.

It is my opinion that if Wayne is to go - another coach has to be moved in alongside Wayne and the chat has to be had as a "transition" period. Any other way would not end well.
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In my view there is no chance in the world that WB will be sacked. They would not do that to him. He would be allowed to walk or more likely transitioned into some other role within the club so they could sell it as a planned transition.

Although I think there are issues which require addressing, primarily attitudinal and the structure of the team, none of it is incapable of being fixed and fixed reasonably quickly. The team structure issue is the bigger issue because we simply do not have the option of substantially changing that and bringing new people in until next season (unless someone suddenly becomes available prior to 30 June). I do not think that WB is past it, the results from the last three years prove that is not the case.
 
007 said:
I understand where you are coming from. The best judge will be his reaction and the players ability to react also, we don't have terrible cattle, in fact we have a top 4 roster. So if Wayne cannot make the correct decisions over the next few weeks with starting sides and also getting the team to respond at training, then possibly we do need to look at whats stale. We will never be given a public discussion on what is wrong with the roster from WB, so even if he knows there are player issues - it will all be discussed behind closed doors.


However the following issues present itself if WB was to be chopped publicly:

1) We suddenly look like a club in dissaray and unprofessional
2) We don't have another coaching option
3) We need to settle player contracts before this can be thought of. A club with no coach, especially sacking WB would not be appealing to any player. Its also would serve as a big history marker - the year WB was cut. How will that affect the club long term?
4) It would let the players off the hook and delay future roster changes, when potentially the problem is both roster AND strategy.

It is my opinion that if Wayne is to go - another coach has to be moved in alongside Wayne and the chat has to be had as a "transition" period. Any other way would not end well.
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I tend to agree. I believe that the team Wayne has put together has a very good young core with a good level of experience mixed through. I believe he has done a pretty good job of transitioning players out as well (although Sammy has hung on 1 year too long). You only need to look at the forward prospects coming through, but he also has the experienced safety net in place as well.

In no way do I think he has Newcastle'd us and whilst there are some mistakes, I'd forgive most of those as only 20/20 hindsight could have envisioned Hunt getting mass overs, Taylor becoming first grade standard and having a breakout rookie year, the huge pay rise in halves across the board and the now seemingly dearth of halves talent. I also believe that if Darius is to hang around he would be transitioned to that left centre spot, as bird seems destined for a move to the forwards and Isaako has been given more and more time in the squad and at fullback over the last few years (including trials).

I also agree that sacking Wayne would be hugely detrimental for every reason you stated and that can't be underestimated, but the CEO and board definitely need to have the discussion with Bennett about his plans for the future, so they can formulate a transition plan. I envisage a role as football manager or similar... that of course will raise questions from the media, but it would allow him to maintain a presence at the club, be involved with recruitment, retention, etc. Without cutting him from the playing group completely

I also don't heap the entire responsibility of the strategy on Bennett either. I doubt he has too much say on the offensive strategy at all and would instead put it in the hands of his assistant coaches. He would want be on top of the strategy for the upcoming week but he doesn't appear to be the type of coach who would micromanage all aspects when he's brought on specialists to do that role.

The one gripe I have with Bennett is his perceived favouritism with team selections although I believe even he is starting to relax on this somewhat.
 
The reality is. We're a goalpost and a dodgy ref decision away from being 0-4.

For anyone wanting Wayne's head though, I think you are being super premature. Bennett has brought us success, at worst a semi-finals appearance since his return. He will be ruthless when he needs to be, but I don't see him needing to be so ruthless just yet.
 
Broncapz said:
The reality is. We're a goalpost and a dodgy ref decision away from being 0-4.

For anyone wanting Wayne's head though, I think you are being super premature. Bennett has brought us success, at worst a semi-finals appearance since his return. He will be ruthless when he needs to be, but I don't see him needing to be so ruthless just yet.
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That isn't the reality though. It's a bias opinion made to make us look worse than we have been. If we are going to talk about the goal post that's been in the same position for 110 years and a penalty that was a penalty despite what the refs wanted to say to save face afterwards, we should also be talking about the shoulder charges, forward passes, incorrect play the balls, offsides and Jack Birds no try as well.
 
To be fair, we were easily the better side against the Cows and deserved to win that game. We played pretty bloody well that night.

As for the other 3 weeks.........
 
The point is, that our wins were on a knifes edge. Our losses were not.
 
Rico said:
Still fired up about Sunday night. I've never been one to blame the coach but in light of the thread topic, It's the first time I've thought that Wayne's judgement is going. From his rot about our fullback being a great leader to his persistence with a couple of the worst bench forwards I've seen since the Griffin era (I wont bang on about the recruitment issues, its all over BHQ) .

Am I right in thinking our first 15 mins against the knights away will define our season? I think the knights are a little over hyped and media favourites but capable of beating us, overlay that with a Warriors defeat away and our obligatory home thrashing by the Storm.. the season will be gone and should that be the case, so should Wayne.

I don't want to go rogue / EPL style with a 'Wayne out' banner in the 3rd home game but this would be my breaking point should the above eventuate. I know I'm looking into something that hasn't happened but I think most of us have to think its a very real possibility. With the investment that has been made in the training facilities, a stinker season be enough to see him off at years end .....surely.
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I think in regards to the bigger picture the really defining minutes for our season will be the first 15 of our game against the warriors.

I said this after the Cowboys game but it’d have to be one of the easiest jobs in the world to get a team to really turn up after a shocking performance (look at the Titans performance against us). The real test is backing it up week after week.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying if we lose to the warriors our season is a write off but I think our performance will be more telling then our performance against the knights.
 
With the way Warriors going on currently, they would have a field day by end of 1st half and blow us out of the park by the end of the game. It's a 2nd straight 'Home' game for them and it's our 2nd 'Away' game straight and traditionally, we haven't done that well paying them in NZ.

Nothing excites me more than the boys proving me wrong by winning the next 2 'Away' games. If they win, it would set a nice precedent for the tough games to follow. Would love to see the guys develop hungry to succeed come what may.
 
Number6 said:
Wayne is not going anywhere except on his terms barring a few bottom 8 finishes in a row or major scandal. Sack the coach isn’t helpful or realistic (says the Milf to fullback guy). More a case of the right support roles, retool recruitment and I’d suggest it is time for the ceo or board to have a frank chat with Wayne about the strategic plan, seemingly player favouritism and other rot creeping into the culture. Can’t tell Wayne off but why can’t you tell him that this is a huge worry and maybe he needs a fresh look at the situation because it all seems to be getting out of control.
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Player favoritism has always been his specialty. He persists with some of the most bogg standard and useless players the game has and will see. Stu Kelly is an example of the old man losing his marbles.
 
Nashy said:
Player favoritism has always been his specialty. He persists with some of the most bogg standard and useless players the game has and will see. Stu Kelly is an example of the old man losing his marbles.
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And if it is just one guy, yeah you can live with it but currently it is:

Boyd
Sims
Thaiday
Milf
KNik
Gillett

Now Gillett you can understand, he will come good no doubt and you could argue the same for Milf but as much of a fan as I am of Kodi, he needs to step up in the next month or the experiment is over. 8 - 10 rounds is a fair chance.

But Boyd has been rubbish and a HORRIBLE captain since halfway through 2016, that's really bad. Thaiday is three seasons past it and should have been made to retire last year, he needs to be dropped which is so sad given he has been a wonderful player for this club. Sims has just turned out to be as average as he was at Newcastle. Had so many high hopes for this guy, his ceiling (as people like to use these days) is high but his floor is so low and he spends way too much time down there.

A lot of the retention decisions really need to be explained by the old bloke.

Bring in Bird? Really? What benefit is he to this side? Even Pearce would have had more value to this side than Bird (and yes, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to have egg on my face). Either of Pearce or Taylor could have been bought for his money and this side would be immensely better already I'm sure. But even if not, Benji was already here and reportedly only wanted an extra 100k, sheesh.

And just think - we could easily have moved on Thaiday / Sims / even Glenn and had retained Wallace and Arrow, EASILY. This decision is one of the worst the club has made, right up there with sticking with Glenn over Te'o those years ago.

And let's not even get into the absolutely mind-boggling decision to re-sign Boyd on such a ridiculously high and long-term deal.

This side was realistic and it is hard to see how it would have been worse by any means:

1. KNik
2. Kahu
3. Roberts
4. Oppa
5. Isaako
6. Milf
7. Benji / Pearce / Taylor
8. McGuire
9. Macca
10. Wallace
11. TPJ
12. Gillett
13. Arrow (c)

14. Oates
15. Joffa
16. Su'a
17. Lodge

Extras: Haas, Taga, Carrigan, Flegler, Fifita

That said, something like this could still happen this year if Wayne is willing to bite the bullet in the next few rounds.
 
Imagine Benji in our current team....Would be a far different story.
 
007 said:
Imagine Benji in our current team....Would be a far different story.
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It’s doubtful he would have the same impact in our side.

Tigers have a different gameplan to ours, one that suits Benji.

And I think the change of scenery is actually the reason why he is in the form he is in.
 
Super Freak said:
It’s doubtful he would have the same impact in our side.

Tigers have a different gameplan to ours, one that suits Benji.

And I think the change of scenery is actually the reason why he is in the form he is in.
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We watch two different games of football.
 
007 said:
We watch two different games of football.
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It seems so.

I look at how Benji was last year in the same team, and I don’t see how it would be any different.

Our gameplan does not suit Benji.
 
Game plan or not, at least he would have bought experience, confidence, and communication into the halves.
 
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