Melbourne Storm coach Craig Bellamy slams NRL draw

[Ari Gold]

The alternative argument is that the disrupted preparations brought about by toilet gate is at the very least greater than or equal to the Storm's cheating as a contributing factor to the Broncos loss.

This is especially true because the Broncos were consciously aware of the toiletgate as a contributing factor at the time of the game, as opposed to the Storm's cheating, which only came out many years later.

No tolietgate, Broncos beat Storm in 2008 major semi.

Not creating a convenient bit of evidence, but as soon as it came out in the press in 2008, it sounded the death knell for me. I knew we had to be at the absolute top of our game that night and even the slightest glitch in our preparation was going to throw us off.

So Broncos fans, time to stop irrationally hating on the Storm "becoz they knocked us out wif a cheatin side for 3 yearz"

Frankly, I still choose to blame Ashton Sims. It's not like the Broncos shouldn't have won that game because of the Storm's cheating, they should have won but didn't due to bad poor control from Sims. Your alternative argument is much more valid though than that they shouldn't have played, as there was nothing enforcable that says they shouldn't have.

And while one might argue it's a hypothetical, I have absolutely NO DOUBT that if it'd been 3 nuffies involved they would've been dropped, if not contracts torn up, on the spot after that behaviour following a semi. The fact it was 3 high profile rep players was the difference.

I have no doubt you are right, but frankly, that's the reality of all professional sports clubs. With the exception of the Raiders ripping up Carney's contract, I can't really think of any club that has taken a hard stance against a valued, talented player for serious "indiscretions" in the last decade. And the clubs Carney has been with since goes to show much talent trumps everything at the professional level. And it's not just true of NRL either -- it's all across all codes.

 

[subsbligh]

Frankly, I still choose to blame Ashton Sims. It's not like the Broncos shouldn't have won that game because of the Storm's cheating, they should have won but didn't due to bad poor control from Sims. Your alternative argument is much more valid though than that they shouldn't have played, as there was nothing enforcable that says they shouldn't have.

Oh God yes, my mates and I still call Sims, bazooka - ball exploding out of his arms. The fact that Hannant didn't get the ball down to seal the game also contributed. As did Locky not taking the two points? Again all hypotheticals, on the night we were probably the better team. The whole week sucked to be a Broncos fan.

I think 09 we had a better chance and God that would have been a wet dream of a game if Wallace wasn't injured.

 

[Coxy]

I have no doubt you are right, but frankly, that's the reality of all professional sports clubs. With the exception of the Raiders ripping up Carney's contract, I can't really think of any club that has taken a hard stance against a valued, talented player for serious "indiscretions" in the last decade. And the clubs Carney has been with since goes to show much talent trumps everything at the professional level. And it's not just true of NRL either -- it's all across all codes.

Not questioning that at all. Doesn't mean I have to like it :-)

As for a talented, valued player let go by a club for indiscretions? Not in the last decade no, but the Broncos have an example from earlier: Julian O'Neill. It's a pity the club lost some of its ethical spine, but as you say with the rest of the game not giving a shit about blokes glassing women etc, it's hard to take a stand.

 

[subsbligh]

...anyhow, I've hated the Storm for years, especially at the height of the wrestling and Broncos v Storm rivalry.

I admire what Bellamy achieved in 2010 (to make a team turn up every week, playing for nothing, and still be consumate professionals and one of the top performing sides in the gmae- the Broncos struggled to turn up when a spot in the finals was at play) and finally in 2012 winning the premiership. You cannot begrudge him or the Storm those two achievements.

He's a whinger - but all coaches have to have their players welfare at heart.

 

[vertigo]

Lol, people still talking about that game 5 years ago yet never think about facing Manly who were never going to be beaten.

 

[Ari Gold]

Not questioning that at all. Doesn't mean I have to like it :-)

As for a talented, valued player let go by a club for indiscretions? Not in the last decade no, but the Broncos have an example from earlier: Julian O'Neill. It's a pity the club lost some of its ethical spine, but as you say with the rest of the game not giving a shit about blokes glassing women etc, it's hard to take a stand.

Not to be too cynical, but the Broncos could afford to let Julian O'Neill go -- they had such a wealth of talent. I'm not sure it's a decision any club makes with a less talented roster and youth pool at their disposal. Okay, that was pretty cynical, but I still think it's true.

As for the Storm cheating, I am actually one of the less aggrieved people about. It was technically wrong, yes, and it was fair that they lose their titles, but I still think the NRL is partly to blame. The two cheating scandals have essentially been about clubs illegally finding ways to keep together a squad full of insanely talented players who came through the club. Obviously other clubs play by the rules so it's wrong in that sense, but it still irks me that the code does nothing to substantially help clubs retain their own players.

 

[subsbligh]

Lol, people still talking about that game 5 years ago yet never think about facing Manly who were never going to be beaten.

Broncos v Manly GF would have been a cracker. I don't think the Lockyer/Kemp vein of form would have got us over the top of Manly... The Bennett factor might have.

The Storm are a different side without Cam Smith (even today) so the thrashing Manly dealt out wasn't a true indicator of either side's ability (notwithstanding salary cap issues). Plus the Broncs bealted the shit out of the Storm - that game was physical.

 

[GCBRONCO]

Not to be too cynical, but the Broncos could afford to let Julian O'Neill go -- they had such a wealth of talent. I'm not sure it's a decision any club makes with a less talented roster and youth pool at their disposal. Okay, that was pretty cynical, but I still think it's true.

Hardly, O'Neill at the time was up there with the best fullbacks in the game during the early to mid 90's, to say the Broncos could afford to lose a fullback of his quality I have to disagree with, Paul Hauff was in and out so regularly with injuries it got to the stage he couldn't play anymore so that hurt the club, then there was Willie Carne who replaced O'Neill but he just wasn't the same player he used to be after so many head knocks and eventually went to Union, it wasn't until Robbie Ross and Darren Lockyer came onto the scene on a regular basis you could argue the Broncos had a player of his potential there and Ross was only there for one season, good thing Lockyer turned out to be the player he was or we would have been far worse then you suggested.

 

[Ari Gold]

Hardly, O'Neill at the time was up there with the best fullbacks in the game during the early to mid 90's, to say the Broncos could afford to lose a fullback of his quality I have to disagree with, Paul Hauff was in and out so regularly with injuries it got to the stage he couldn't play anymore so that hurt the club, then there was Willie Carne who replaced O'Neill but he just wasn't the same player he used to be after so many head knocks and eventually went to Union, it wasn't until Robbie Ross and Darren Lockyer came onto the scene on a regular basis you could argue the Broncos had a player of his potential there and Ross was only there for one season, good thing Lockyer turned out to be the player he was or we would have been far worse then you suggested.

The Broncos squad at the time included the following names:

Alan Langer
Kevin Walters
Kerrod Walters
Steve Renouf
Mick Hancock
Willie Carne
Darren Smith
Chris Johns
Glen Lazarus
Andrew Gee
Wendell Sailor

You have that roster and it's a hell of a lot easier to release a player for poor discipline than it is if that player is one of your key 2-3 players.

 

[GCBRONCO]

You have that roster and it's a hell of a lot easier to release a player for poor discipline than it is if that player is one of your key 2-3 players.

Don't see many specialist fullbacks there in that lineup at a time the Broncos needed them badly, only one of those players actually spent time in there of great length and even then he was told to go elsewhere(as were Kerrod Walters, Michael Hancock and Alan Cann). Also that great lineup you listed had a nasty habit of underperforming during that period come crunch time, that might explain the cleanout the club conducted at the end of 1996.

 

[GCBRONCO]

As for the Storm cheating, I am actually one of the less aggrieved people about. It was technically wrong, yes, and it was fair that they lose their titles, but I still think the NRL is partly to blame. The two cheating scandals have essentially been about clubs illegally finding ways to keep together a squad full of insanely talented players who came through the club. Obviously other clubs play by the rules so it's wrong in that sense, but it still irks me that the code does nothing to substantially help clubs retain their own players.

As much as I dislike the current salary cap system and would like to see serious changes to it to reward clubs for development, I don't think theres anyway you can try to justify clubs rorting it to the extent they are knowingly going above and beyond what you could regard as a slight breach just to keep their side on top especially when other clubs do the right thing and pay the price for it. I have no pitty for either club for the NRL doing what they did to them, tainted premierships are not to be encouraged or admired.

 

[Ari Gold]

Don't see many specialist fullbacks there in that lineup at a time the Broncos needed them badly, only one of those players actually spent time in there of great length and even then he was told to go elsewhere(as were Kerrod Walters, Michael Hancock and Alan Cann). Also that great lineup you listed had a nasty habit of underperforming during that period come crunch time, that might explain the cleanout the club conducted at the end of 1996.

So what if there aren't any specialist fullbacks there? Any team with Langer, Walters, Renouf, Johns, Sailor, Hancock etc. is going to be an extremely competitive side, which is exactly the point I was making. Dropping O'Neill wasn't a decision that was going to drastically drop the team out of contention.

As much as I dislike the current salary cap system and would like to see serious changes to it to reward clubs for development, I don't think theres anyway you can try to justify clubs rorting it to the extent they are knowingly going above and beyond what you could regard as a slight breach just to keep their side on top especially when other clubs do the right thing and pay the price for it. I have no pitty for either club for the NRL doing what they did to them, tainted premierships are not to be encouraged or admired.

I'm not trying to excuse their cheating, I'm simply saying I don't feel the same hatred toward them that others do. My comments are an explanation as to why I don't feel bitter towards those sides, not an argument that it was okay to gain an unfair advantage.

 

[GCBRONCO]

So what if there aren't any specialist fullbacks there? Any team with Langer, Walters, Renouf, Johns, Sailor, Han**** etc. is going to be an extremely competitive side, which is exactly the point I was making. Dropping O'Neill wasn't a decision that was going to drastically drop the team out of contention.

Actually it did especially what Juilian O'Neill provided as a fullback for the side which is very much a key position in a side, Carne was clearly not the player he used to be and the difference between the two was very much noticeable, neither were Kerrod Walters, Alan Cann and Michael Hancock (who only improved after getting the wakeup call his subpar performances weren't acceptable) so thats 4 key players who weren't anywhere near their best, listing them at that time as being up there with the others in quality, consistency and performance in that timeframe is misleading. You cannot honestly stand there and tell me that the club didn't suffer from not having a player of the quality of O'Neill there at fullback during a time when they lacked the depth necessary to match him with proven experienced performers at the club. If having that roster was so great to the point that losing one player has no influence on your side we wouldn't have been bundled out of the finals so easily during that time frame.

I'm not trying to excuse their cheating, I'm simply saying I don't feel the same hatred toward them that others do. My comments are an explanation as to why I don't feel bitter towards those sides, not an argument that it was okay to gain an unfair advantage.

Indirectly though you were justifying it because you were arguing that because you disliked the system and NRL are partly to blame for the Storm's and Bulldogs own actions which is an arguement that lessons the blame on the Storm and Bulldogs and shifts it onto the NRL, but then you have other sides who play by the rules and have to pay the price for it, its like a kick in the guts. I appreciate you dislike the system I myself do, but I don't think the hate towards those clubs is any less justified just because of it.