NRL General Discussion Thread

[tommy]

You do have to retire, the other Burgess saying that is wrong. It does say elite level though so I would guess in 5 years you could play in Toowoomba if you wanted to- I would say elite is NRL, ESL or ISC.

If Gillett plays for Bribie in two years would anyone care really.

NRL Rule 86 (Medical Termination)

1. The Player, at the time of termination, was diagnosed as medically unfit to currently continue to train and play elite level contact sport and was medically unable to ever return to play elite level contact sport due to the current level of disability or the significant risk of further disabling injury as a result of playing elite level contract sport.

2. The Player, had no similar injury or medical condition to that area of the body that either has or could reasonably be predicted medically to lead to a degenerative condition of that area of the body prior to signing his last NRL contract or if the players contract was signed more than 24 months previous within the last 24 months unless an unrelated single event has resulted in rapid deterioration of this condition.

3. A single event that caused the injury could be identified.

I wouldn't care if he just wanted to run around for fun, but if he got a contract with Superleague as Wolfie suggested he could it would be a farce.

 

[john1420]

It's simple enough really, injured players that retire on medical grounds can of course do everything possible to have their injury fixed so they can lead a pain free life, they just can't play the game professionally again.

 

[1910]

I wouldn't care if he just wanted to run around for fun, but if he got a contract with Superleague as Wolfie suggested he could it would be a farce.

Did he say SL or just play? If he said play he might just be talking about the local team and everyone has jumped to the SL conclusion.

The rule says he can't play elite contact sport again.

 

[tommy]

Did he say SL or just play? If he said play he might just be talking about the local team and everyone has jumped to the SL conclusion.

The rule says he can't play elite contract sport again.

Yep that's what happened.

 

[Kooly87]

People are forgetting that at some point all clubs will be the beneficiaries of this, so it really doesn't need to be about tribalism which seems to be the default mentality for League fans.

Firstly, No player should be under pressure to keep playing because they are a cap liability to their club. The players are people too and most of them will have to live a long time after their playing days are done and they deserve protection with this.

Secondly, medical retirements are determined by Doctors. Highly paid professionals who are legally bound to act with integrity as part of their profession. Sure, not all act with integrity 100% of the time, but in general they hold an extremely important position within society that extends far beyond Rugby League. I think it is entirely reasonable to trust these people to make these determinations and that we can have faith that they will act fairly and with total professional integrity.

Finally, clubs stand to benefit enormously from the protection this will offer them going forward. They will be able to issue contracts to ageing players with confidence that they will be protected and that is a huge positive for both player and club. If they abuse or manipulate this, it will only be a matter of time before they have it taken away from them, and they will all lose. It is up to all clubs to also conduct themselves fairly and only use this rule when it is genuine and in the best interests of the player's medical future.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

I don't really understand what your points is now? You said Burgess shouldn't be able to get his shoulder fixed- of course he can.

You couldn't make the rule, the injury has to last forever. The NRL are just interested in can you play NRL football anymore because of new injury that wasn't there when you signed your most recent contract.

If the rule was will it last forever what do you do? Souths we will review when GI dies and if in 2060 it is still causing him issues you can have salary cap relief- that's ridiculous.

Where did I say he couldn't get his shoulder fixed? Can you highlight it for me...

I didn't say anything like that. He should do everything possibly, just like the examples I mentioned above (tkr, thr). What I did say was nearly every player will have injuries that will effect them for the rest of their lives.

I'm not sure how you are understanding this. The injury didn't FORCE him to retire, in fact he played several games after it believe? He retired, which in turn will benefit his injuries. Its completely different and it is something every single nrl player has to deal with upon retirement. So what if his injuries are bad, they didn't FORCE him to retire. Jharal yow yeh and mckinnon are examples I used. Are you seriously insinuating that burgess' or inglis' injuries are even in the same ballpark?

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

People are forgetting that at some point all clubs will be the beneficiaries of this

"don't worry titans/any team except melbourne/roosters/souffs fans, you're day will come when you get the advantages but by then the rules will probably change."

It annoys me as a broncos fan but I lived in Sydney and that's the exact mentality that is driving away a lot of rusted on fans of other teams. And I mean a lot. At least we have some glory years and are still a strong club. Imagine being a tigers fan and copping this shit from the nrl.

 

[1910]

Where did I say he couldn't get his shoulder fixed? Can you highlight it for me...

I didn't say anything like that. He should do everything possibly, just like the examples I mentioned above (tkr, thr). What I did say was nearly every player will have injuries that will effect them for the rest of their lives.

I'm not sure how you are understanding this. The injury didn't FORCE him to retire, in fact he played several games after it believe? He retired, which in turn will benefit his injuries. Its completely different and it is something every single nrl player has to deal with upon retirement. So what if his injuries are bad, they didn't FORCE him to retire. Jharal yow yeh and mckinnon are examples I used. Are you seriously insinuating that burgess' or inglis' injuries are even in the same ballpark?

Sure-you said no rehab.

It doesn't matter when or where he plays. His contract got taken off the salary cap because it is a medical RETIREMENT, not a medical out of the game for a bit while you recover. He had 3 years left in his contract but even if he comes back after that there are massive, massive questions that will need to be asked. A medical retirement means it is THE REASON he retired, if he can rehab it in any way, shape or form then why was it the reason he retired?

Yow Yeh came back from his injury and played too. So using your logic his leg didn’t force him to retire.

 

[Big Pete]

What rubs me the wrong way is that we're already discussing 2021.

The season hasn't even started yet and the poor Gold Coast Titans fanbase have to suffer through another season knowing their best player has his bags packed to go join another club. It just makes it really difficult for their fanbase to get invested in this season and creates this scenario where they've got to try and win back their losses by signing a prospect like Tino Fa'asuamaleaui.

That may sound hypocritical from the Gold Coast, but none of these parties should be in this position. There should be a grace period where the clubs and the players can focus on the upcoming season and when everything has settled, then we can worry about free agency.

With the way everything played out, it came across like Sam Burgess was a shell of the player he once was so he was pressured into retiring. As soon as the NRL cleared his retirement, they went out and offered his money to Arrow and made it known they'd like to have him right away, breaking his contract with the Gold Coast.

Now I'm sure it didn't play out EXACTLY like that, but that's the impression I took from the news. Had their been this gap to distract from the cause and effect it wouldn't have been as glaring but this is just the lay of the land.

I'm trying to think of a scenario where it wouldn't be so on the nose. In the case of Souths, if one of your best players retires that late into free agency, it should just be an unfortunate set of circumstances. It's a shame but clubs always find themselves in these type of predicaments, you just have to wait for the appropriate opportunity to address the problem. Whether it was mid to late 2020 or if they could pick up a reject (like Brisbane did with Croft) that would have been acceptable. With the way it all worked out, it just exposed a major issue with the game and was a major turn off.

And I've got nothing against Souths, they played to the rules of the game and they came away with two excellent players. I don't think they've done anything wrong and I applaud them for their recruitment. I just don't think this should be allowed to continue in it's current format.

Especially when you get a Kalyn Ponga situation. I honestly think the game shot themselves in the foot in that 2016/17 pre-season when they allowed Ponga to sign that $3,000,000+ contract after two games. He wasted a year of his life waiting for the season to end so he could leave Townsville, that was awful for the NRL, especially since he's marketed as the best player in the game.

 

[Kooly87]

Especially when you get a Kalyn Ponga situation. I honestly think the game shot themselves in the foot in that 2016/17 pre-season when they allowed Ponga to sign that $3,000,000+ contract after two games. He wasted a year of his life waiting for the season to end so he could leave Townsville, that was awful for the NRL, especially since he's marketed as the best player in the game.

The Cowboys could and probably should have used him more than they did. That wasting of the year for Ponga is on Paul Green.

 

[Kooly87]

"don't worry titans/any team except melbourne/roosters/souffs fans, you're day will come when you get the advantages but by then the rules will probably change."

It annoys me as a broncos fan but I lived in Sydney and that's the exact mentality that is driving away a lot of rusted on fans of other teams. And I mean a lot. At least we have some glory years and are still a strong club. Imagine being a tigers fan and copping this shit from the nrl.

We benefited from the same rule literally this very season.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

We benefited from the same rule literally this very season.

Yes. We have. And I have said this in previous posts, although Gilletts was nowhere near as blatantly obvious as burgess' or inglis'. And not to the tune of $2.5 million..... Souffs and possibly the roosters are the only teams that would get that, possibly Melbourne too if c Smith had coffee with greenberg..

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

Sure-you said no rehab.




Yow Yeh came back from his injury and played too. So using your logic his leg didn’t force him to retire.

Sure-you said no rehab.




Yow Yeh came back from his injury and played too. So using your logic his leg didn’t force him to retire.

Where did I say he isn't allowed to get rehab? Haha.. I said if he can rehab it to play again then why is he retiring. Can you highlight when I said he's not allowed to rehab his injury or get the best care possible after retiring or while he is still contracted(but counted in the cap)? That'd be a fucking human rights issue.

Yow Yeh came back. After 2 years. In the qld cup. In a different position. And failed after a few games, and I don't believe he played a full game. He had a compound comminuted fracture dislocation, you even know what that is? A fracture like that would normally require an impact like a high speed car accident. You're way out of your depth here with me, trust me. "acclaimed surgeon Peter Myers, as bad a sporting injury as he'd seen in three decades of practice."... Yow yeh was also 22 and in his prime. I can't believe youre actually comparing it. Just goes to show how far you will reach to not be wrong.

 

[mrslong]

Where did I say he isn't allowed to get rehab? Haha.. I said if he can rehab it to play again then why is he retiring. Can you highlight when I said he's not allowed to rehab his injury or get the best care possible after retiring or while he is still contracted(but counted in the cap)? That'd be a fucking human rights issue.

LOL!!! I was reading the exchange like WTF, where did he say he's not allowed to do rehab? Lol!!

 

[Wolfie]

I wouldn't care if he just wanted to run around for fun, but if he got a contract with Superleague as Wolfie suggested he could it would be a farce.

I'm undecided how i feel about it. Part of me thinks if he is out of the game for 3 or 4 years and his body has recovered enough where he feels he could play, its not a big issue. He would be about 35 then and not the player he was, he has missed some of his best years of playing so i think a year or two if he is up to it isnt a big deal. At the same time, the system could be abused in some ways which i'm not comfortable with. Its a situation that the NRL need to watch closely.

At this moment in time, his body wont let him play and he was correctly retired. I cant see the drama with it. If he has had some kind of insurance payout and he plays again, it would have to be repaid i would think. I'm sure Souths didnt want him to retire. Sam is an excellent footy player and they would rather have him fit and firing than retired.

 

[1910]

Where did I say he isn't allowed to get rehab? Haha.. I said if he can rehab it to play again then why is he retiring. Can you highlight when I said he's not allowed to rehab his injury or get the best care possible after retiring or while he is still contracted(but counted in the cap)? That'd be a fucking human rights issue.

Yow Yeh came back. After 2 years. In the qld cup. In a different position. And failed after a few games, and I don't believe he played a full game. He had a compound comminuted fracture dislocation, you even know what that is? A fracture like that would normally require an impact like a high speed car accident. You're way out of your depth here with me, trust me. "acclaimed surgeon Peter Myers, as bad a sporting injury as he'd seen in three decades of practice."... Yow yeh was also 22 and in his prime. I can't believe youre actually comparing it. Just goes to show how far you will reach to not be wrong.

His contract got taken off the salary cap because it is a medical RETIREMENT, not a medical out of the game for a bit while you recover. He had 3 years left in his contract but even if he comes back after that there are massive, massive questions that will need to be asked. A medical retirement means it is THE REASON he retired, if he can rehab it in any way, shape or form then why was it the reason he retired?

You are clearly suggesting if his injury can be fixed, he shouldn't be eligible for cap relief. So what's he supposed to do not get it fixed?

I am not comparing the injuries, again you are away off track and introducing as many red herrings as you can. Injuries don't need to be compared.

An injury making a player not as good isn't a reason, it didn't stop him from playing.

The injury didn't FORCE him to retire, in fact he played several games after it believe?

You claimed if a player isn't as good or if they keep playing they shouldn't be eligible- I just pointed out Yow Yeh played again and 'wasn't as good." He fails your test.

 

[Kooly87]

Yes. We have. And I have said this in previous posts, although Gilletts was nowhere near as blatantly obvious as burgess' or inglis'. And not to the tune of $2.5 million..... Souffs and possibly the roosters are the only teams that would get that, possibly Melbourne too if c Smith had coffee with greenberg..

This is just nonsensical rambling. The relief for Gillett would have been higher if his salary was higher or the remainder of his contract was longer. That's circumstantial, nothing else.

I can't comment on the severity of Gillo's shoulder as I don't know anything about it, but he's got a serious history with his neck and it was clearly hampering him last season. I think objectively I could see why opposition fans would say that was a bit suspicious, but I'd say to those people the same thing I'd say to those who doubt Burgess etc: trust that the Doctors who actually make these decisions have acted with integrity. Their professional credentials and standing should justify that.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

You are clearly suggesting if his injury can be fixed, he shouldn't be eligible for cap relief. So what's he supposed to do not get it fixed?

I am not comparing the injuries, again you are away off track and introducing as many red herrings as you can. Injuries don't need to be compared.





You claimed if a player isn't as good or if they keep playing they shouldn't be eligible- I just pointed out Yow Yeh played again and 'wasn't as good." He fails your test.

Again, did I say he wasn't allowed to get rehab? No, I didn't. He can get all the rehab he wants but if he gets rehab and is able to play again why is his wage not counted on the cap as the injury didn't force him to retire. Yow yeh wasn't able to play again, he tried, he changed positions, he never made it back to nrl level and couldn't play a full game. Burgess did, and there was no suggestion from any orthopedic surgeon or specialist in any area that he couldn't play at that level again. What they did say, this is souffs Dr I believe, was that his injury would effect him later in life if he kept playing. Just like the knees, hips and shoulders of plenty of other retired nrl players. His shoulder was bad, but let me put it this way, Sean o'sullivans knees will be just as bad. Should he medically retire? Additionally, he had shoulder problems when he signed his contract, so it also fails the other criteria the nrl trumpeted "it's a new injury". Technically, every injury is a new injury by that criteria and any player that gets injured during a contract and is over 30 will have ticked the same boxes burgess did.