NRL General Discussion Thread

[Bull Shark]

how about this for a take, not from some numbskull on a Facebook comments thread, but from the chief RL reporter at the Sydney Daily Telegraph, this afternoon

 

[Big Pete]

@Kimlo do any of those salaries I posted stick out to you?

 

[lynx000]

how about this for a take, not from some numbskull on a Facebook comments thread, but from the chief RL reporter at the Sydney Daily Telegraph, this afternoon
View attachment 14534

He and Gus can't stand each other. That is just yet another cheap shot from Slothfield, not that Gus doesn't deserve it.

 

[Kimlo]

The Price Is Right: Melbourne Storm 2021 Edition

Again not trying to get it down to the exact amount, just rounding to the closest 100,000.

1. Ryan Papenhuyzen ($400K)
2. George Jennings ($100K)
3. Reimis Smith ($200K)
4. Justin Olam ($300K)
5. Josh Addo-Carr ($300K)
6. Cameron Munster ($1 Million)
7. Jahrome Hughes (700K)
8. Jesse Bromwich (700K)
9. Brandon Smith ($400K)
10. Christian Welch ($500K)
11. Felise Kaufusi ($700K)
12. Kenny Bromwich ($400K)
13. Dale Finucane ($600K)

14. Harry Grant ($300K)
15. Tom Eisenhuth ($200K)
16. Tui Kamikamica ($300K)
17. Nelson Asofa-Solomona (700K)

18. Nicho Hynes ($200K)
19. Aaron Booth ($100K)
20. Jordan Grant ($100K)
21. Dean Ieremia ($100K)
22. Ryley Jacks ($100K)
23. Cooper Johns ($100K)
24. Chris Lewis ($100K)
25. Trent Loiero ($100K)
26. Aaron Pene ($100K)
27. Darryn Schonig ($100K)
28. Tyson Smoothy ($100K)
29. Jack Howarth ($200K)
30. Brenko Lee ($100K)
31. Issac Lumelume ($100K)
32. Tepai Moeroa ($100K)

1-4 fair enough, All relative nobodies. JAC is insanely underpriced, most clubs have to pay 500k at least to keep a winger like that, even the Dogs have nabbed a relative bargain at a reported 500k.
6-7 fair enough, even though I think Hughes is under priced given how hard Warriors were chasing him.

8-17 fair enough (although nelson seems overpriced?) except for Grant. The guy is an absolute freak, he's looked like one of the best 9's in the game from game 1 and I still can't wrap my head around a guy that good agreeing to a 4 year deal at 300k or JAC who is elite taking anything under 500k.

Laying it out 1-17 it doesn't seem as absurd outside of Grant/JAC. I guess where they do really well is there 100-200k players, play like 400k players where at most club those players are plodders who can barely hold a first grade standard. They've also heavily invested in their top 17 because after 18 the quality downgrades significantly.

 

[theshed]

1-4 fair enough, All relative nobodies. JAC is insanely underpriced, most clubs have to pay 500k at least to keep a winger like that, even the Dogs have nabbed a relative bargain at a reported 500k.
6-7 fair enough, even though I think Hughes is under priced given how hard Warriors were chasing him.

8-17 fair enough (although nelson seems overpriced?) except for Grant. The guy is an absolute freak, he's looked like one of the best 9's in the game from game 1 and I still can't wrap my head around a guy that good agreeing to a 4 year deal at 300k or JAC who is elite taking anything under 500k.

Laying it out 1-17 it doesn't seem as absurd outside of Grant/JAC. I guess where they do really well is there 100-200k players, play like 400k players where at most club those players are plodders who can barely hold a first grade standard. They've also heavily invested in their top 17 because after 18 the quality downgrades significantly.

Grant, Hughes, Paps, and Smith could probably all get 800k+ at other clubs. Curious to know what Olam would get on the open market too. He seems like a player that would stay for significant unders though.

I find it hard to believe that they can hold onto both Smith and Grant but the culture there is so good that both will probably be happy to extend their stay for less and keep collecting rings - Smith seems to be warming to the idea of his current role.

 

[Kimlo]

Grant, Hughes, Paps, and Smith could probably all get 800k+ at other clubs. Curious to know what Olam would get on the open market too. He seems like a player that would stay for significant unders though.

I find it hard to believe that they can hold onto both Smith and Grant but the culture there is so good that both will probably be happy to extend their stay for less and keep collecting rings - Smith seems to be warming to the idea of his current role.

Yeah easily. Olam I think is a 400-500k centre all day, also agree he'll stay for unders. Really good, brings energy and power, but not particularly special in any other way.

They are basically playing 1.5m-2m over the cap in market value terms.

 

[Big Pete]

1-4 fair enough, All relative nobodies. JAC is insanely underpriced, most clubs have to pay 500k at least to keep a winger like that, even the Dogs have nabbed a relative bargain at a reported 500k.
6-7 fair enough, even though I think Hughes is under priced given how hard Warriors were chasing him.

8-17 fair enough (although nelson seems overpriced?) except for Grant. The guy is an absolute freak, he's looked like one of the best 9's in the game from game 1 and I still can't wrap my head around a guy that good agreeing to a 4 year deal at 300k or JAC who is elite taking anything under 500k.

Laying it out 1-17 it doesn't seem as absurd outside of Grant/JAC. I guess where they do really well is there 100-200k players, play like 400k players where at most club those players are plodders who can barely hold a first grade standard. They've also heavily invested in their top 17 because after 18 the quality downgrades significantly.

Those and the Brandon Smith priced surprised me. I didn't realise Smith signed such a long term deal so early into his stint at the club. Likewise they got in really early with the JAC upgrade. Both seem fair enough considering when they were relatively signed.

Grant was a guess, but according to the journos he's on less than 370K. Considering he signed in 2019 after only playing a couple of NRL games where he didn't really blow people away, I could buy that. That's what David Fifita was on and everyone and their dog wanted a piece of him. Grant wasn't some no-name QCup Player, he was a star of the NYC but that's about what I expect.

Nelson's contract doesn't surprise me. The guy is a freak athlete and the Storm are also competing with the All-Blacks when it comes to him. He seems like a Tino Fa'asuamaleaui where he'll attract huge offers just because of how well he moves for his size - players like that don't grow on trees.

 

[Kimlo]

Those and the Brandon Smith priced surprised me. I didn't realise Smith signed such a long term deal so early into his stint at the club. Likewise they got in really early with the JAC upgrade. Both seem fair enough considering when they were relatively signed.

Grant was a guess, but according to the journos he's on less than 370K. Considering he signed in 2019 after only playing a couple of NRL games where he didn't really blow people away, I could buy that. That's what David Fifita was on and everyone and their dog wanted a piece of him. Grant wasn't some no-name QCup Player, he was a star of the NYC but that's about what I expect.

Nelson's contract doesn't surprise me. The guy is a freak athlete and the Storm are also competing with the All-Blacks when it comes to him. He seems like a Tino Fa'asuamaleaui where he'll attract huge offers just because of how well he moves for his size - players like that don't grow on trees.

I think that's where Melbourne really excel, they identify the good players but instead of being risk averse and offering 1-2 years, they go for 4 years before they really play a game, and those initial few years they get incredible value out of players.

Whereas we might get a freak like Fifita, or Walsh but by the time they play grade they have like a year left on their deal so they are prime for swooping.

Hopefully it's an area DD can recognise although picking talent for the long term is much easier said than done and then of course there's an argument to be made for how much coaching plays a part in said talent actually becoming stars.

 

[Xzei]

I think the storm may have fucked up if they actually have paid coates 500k a year to get him out of brisbane,not really the same value they got out of addo carr contract

 

[Kimlo]

I think the storm may have fucked up if they actually have paid coates 500k a year to get him out of brisbane,not really the same value they got out of addo carr contract

The reported figure is 425k. He doesn't seem like he's worth that but I'm sure he'll be a beast there once they sprinkle the magic dust. He'll catch every high ball and look better than prime Folau.

 

[Xzei]

The reported figure is 425k. He doesn't seem like he's worth that but I'm sure he'll be a beast there once they sprinkle the magic dust. He'll catch every high ball and look better than prime Folau.

Thought i read close to 500k on the nrl site,oo well still over the 300k that addo carr was getting

 

[Kimlo]

Thought i read close to 500k on the nrl site,oo well still over the 300k that addo carr was getting

Maybe you did, they seem to change figures frequently so who knows really.

 

[theshed]

I think that's where Melbourne really excel, they identify the good players but instead of being risk averse and offering 1-2 years, they go for 4 years before they really play a game, and those initial few years they get incredible value out of players.

Whereas we might get a freak like Fifita, or Walsh but by the time they play grade they have like a year left on their deal so they are prime for swooping.

Hopefully it's an area DD can recognise although picking talent for the long term is much easier said than done and then of course there's an argument to be made for how much coaching plays a part in said talent actually becoming stars.

Another thing they seemingly do from
my view point as a someone who doesn’t follow their movements too closely, is they invest in multiple options for the spine spots and play them for a while in ISC and first grade before making a decision on who to keep - extending the good option for a few years and offloading the runner up.

- Smith / Grant
- Hughes / Drinkwater / Croft / Paps / Hynes / Jacks / etc

The way they navigate their spine options is seemingly fantastic. Maybe you or Pete have a decent analysis on their strategies regarding this.

Also seem to favour fullbacks for all the spine positions but that may just be coincidence.

 

[Kimlo]

Another thing they seemingly do from
my view point as a someone who doesn’t follow their movements too closely, is they invest in multiple options for the spine spots and play them for a while in ISC and first grade before making a decision on who to keep - extending the good option for a few years and offloading the runner up.

- Smith / Grant
- Hughes / Drinkwater / Croft / Paps / Hynes / Jacks / etc

The way they navigate their spine options is seemingly fantastic. Maybe you or Pete have a decent analysis on their strategies regarding this.

Also seem to favour fullbacks for all the spine positions but that may just be coincidence.

I definitely don't have a decent analysis but their contingency planning is remarkably good.

Seriously most clubs lose a superstar and take 5 years to recover, think Thurston, Hodges, Lockyer, Johns, etc. They plan so meticulously they don't even miss a beat.

Slater>Paps
Smith>Grant
Cronk>Hughes

They are 5 steps ahead of everyone else identifying future talent but like I said, how much of it is identifying talent vs Bellamy and co just having a freakishly good system is impossible to know.

We could have had all these players and they might have turned out to be duds..

Even with their progression, they initially had Drinkwater and Croft earmarked as their next spine players, so it's not like they are perfect, they just identify enough good picks that one of them will be a diamond.

 

[theshed]

I definitely don't have a decent analysis but their contingency planning is remarkably good.

Seriously most clubs lose a superstar and take 5 years to recover, think Thurston, Hodges, Lockyer, Johns, etc. They plan so meticulously they don't even miss a beat.

Slater>Paps
Smith>Grant
Cronk>Hughes

They are 5 steps ahead of everyone else identifying future talent but like I said, how much of it is identifying talent vs Bellamy and co just having a freakishly good system is impossible to know.

We could have had all these players and they might have turned out to be duds..

Even with their progression, they initially had Drinkwater and Croft earmarked as their next spine players, so it's not like they are perfect, they just identify enough good picks that one of them will be a diamond.

Yeah that’s the amazing part to me, and it’s optimistic because it’s somewhat replicable for other well managed clubs.

Obviously the Belly coaching and system is untouchable but there’s something there that clubs can aspire to regarding recruitment

it wasn’t just Cronk > Hughs

There is something in their recruitment and talent identification and the way they collect young talent.

Cronk > Jacks / Croft / Hughs > Hughs
Slater > Drinkwater / Hughs / Paps > Paps

They hedge their bets in some flawless way then extend the right option early before market value gets away from them.

I really hope DD stole the blue prints

 

[BroncsFan]

I definitely don't have a decent analysis but their contingency planning is remarkably good.

Seriously most clubs lose a superstar and take 5 years to recover, think Thurston, Hodges, Lockyer, Johns, etc. They plan so meticulously they don't even miss a beat.

Slater>Paps
Smith>Grant
Cronk>Hughes

They are 5 steps ahead of everyone else identifying future talent but like I said, how much of it is identifying talent vs Bellamy and co just having a freakishly good system is impossible to know.

We could have had all these players and they might have turned out to be duds..

Even with their progression, they initially had Drinkwater and Croft earmarked as their next spine players, so it's not like they are perfect, they just identify enough good picks that one of them will be a diamond.

I think it's been stated in the media that Ponissi and Bellamy have a really close relationship and Ponissi knows the kind of players that Bellmay wants.

Everyone has a role in the storm system so Frank can probably head out with very specific instructions for his recruiting team and find players that have attributes to fit into Bellamy's system.


I think Bellamy has also shown flexible with his system since CS9 left.

CS9 plays very differently to Bsmith and Grant.

Bsmith and Grant both like to run, whereas CS9 didn't really do that at all across his career.

Bellamy's current style is heavily dependent on generating momentum through the middle, keeping the roll on until the defence is sucked in and then hitting them on the edges.

Everything always seems to be about forward momentum with the storm... the middle always looking for quick ptb, generating ruck speed in the get out sets and the back line playing on the advantage line... on defence everything is about slowing the opposition's momentum; attacking through defence with quick line speed and slowing down the opposition ptb.

With CS9 they could slow things down when needed, but their current play is high octane all the time.

He can play that style at the moment because he has two top 5 hookers, but Bsmith could be seen to fatigue when Harry wasn't there and eventually needed to be subbed for a lesser standard hooker, at which point the quality could be seen to drop.... luckily for the storm they were typically already up by 30 before Bsmith had to come off.

Playing the current Bellamy style takes a shit ton of fitness though... so I'm surprised he hasn't slowed them down a little to keep some in reserves for when the finals start.... Bellamy doesn't have that general in CS9 or Cronk to slow things down at the moment, it's just Plan A and it's 110%, they haven't switched over to a Plan B when up by 30 yet.

I'm really surprised that Bsmith hasn't been given a break this year, maybe he will now that Grant is back.

 

[Allo]

I think it's been stated in the media that Ponissi and Bellamy have a really close relationship and Ponissi knows the kind of players that Bellmay wants.

Everyone has a role in the storm system so Frank can probably head out with very specific instructions for his recruiting team and find players that have attributes to fit into Bellamy's system.


I think Bellamy has also shown flexible with his system since CS9 left.

CS9 plays very differently to Bsmith and Grant.

Bsmith and Grant both like to run, whereas CS9 didn't really do that at all across his career.

Bellamy's current style is heavily dependent on generating momentum through the middle, keeping the roll on until the defence is sucked in and then hitting them on the edges.

Everything always seems to be about forward momentum with the storm... the middle always looking for quick ptb, generating ruck speed in the get out sets and the back line playing on the advantage line... on defence everything is about slowing the opposition's momentum; attacking through defence with quick line speed and slowing down the opposition ptb.

With CS9 they could slow things down when needed, but their current play is high octane all the time.

He can play that style at the moment because he has two top 5 hookers, but Bsmith could be seen to fatigue when Harry wasn't there and eventually needed to be subbed for a lesser standard hooker, at which point the quality could be seen to drop.... luckily for the storm they were typically already up by 30 before Bsmith had to come off.

Playing the current Bellamy style takes a shit ton of fitness though... so I'm surprised he hasn't slowed them down a little to keep some in reserves for when the finals start.... Bellamy doesn't have that general in CS9 or Cronk to slow things down at the moment, it's just Plan A and it's 110%, they haven't switched over to a Plan B when up by 30 yet.

I'm really surprised that Bsmith hasn't been given a break this year, maybe he will now that Grant is back.

It helps a lot that they are allowed to play the way they do by the officials.

The game against Manly again displayed the bullshit tactics they pull plus how they are allowed to get away with it

 

[Foordy]

reports that there is a shock contender for the GF ... NZ have come into consideration to host the game