Penrith Panthers 2014 - Premiers or Pretenders?

[Charmamba]

Maybe so but the point is how much better is he playing under Ivan Cleary as opposed to Anthony Sloth?

It's helpful when you're playing for your career, he was comfortable in Brisbane and knew he wouldn't get dropped. When we finally dropped him he had to prove himself again to a new club or his career would finishing in the SL.

Watch, 2015 the Panthers will miss the 8 and Wallace will play time in the reserves.

 

[Charmamba]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

Playing for his career? Last I heard, the bloke is the captain...

You think if he played like he did at Brisbane another club would want him? I also don't value the Panthers captain system, they made Petro one as well. it comes in their welcome package for signings.

 

[ningnangnong]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

Come on, man. I didn't like Peter Wallace as a player, but why isn't he captain material?

He's been playing at the top level regularly for seven or so years now, he's a Penrith junior, he's played Origin, and he's a well respected professional. Fully deserves to captain the Panthers, and so did Petero. Petero would've been our captain if there weren't so many other legends of the game ahead of him during his time at the Broncos (Lockyer, Tallis, etc).

Getting a bit off-topic here, my bad!

 

[Huge]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

What makes me laugh is the way we here at BHQ have lambasted both Soward and Wallace yet together they lead the competition ! It seems that other factors are in play here. Wallace always performed as well as he was able in my view. I always thought he was having a dig and to some extent Griffin and his game plan must have had an influence on Wallace.

I can't shake the feeling that last weeks game was an aberration and if Griffin demands they play a tedious style , we'll end up losing. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I'd love to see a return to the entertainers of yesteryear.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

What makes me laugh is the way we here at BHQ have lambasted both Soward and Wallace yet together they lead the competition ! It seems that other factors are in play here. Wallace always performed as well as he was able in my view. I always thought he was having a dig and to some extent Griffin and his game plan must have had an influence on Wallace.

I can't shake the feeling that last weeks game was an aberration and if Griffin demands they play a tedious style , we'll end up losing. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I'd love to see a return to the entertainers of yesteryear.

They are still the same old Wallace and Soward. Mostly shit but playing behind a forward pack that is winning is making them look good. Penrith are playing well but they have had a soft draw so far and have really beat nothing teams for the most part. Played both Canberra and Newcastle twice and an Eels side minus Hayne.

 

[Donald]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

I don't think Wallace is playing and different now then he was at the broncos. Wallace is a solid first grade 7 and that's all he will ever be. He is doing his job at the panthers but certainly isn't playing any better then average IMO. I don't rate the panthers. Who have they beaten that is any good? They've played the weaker teams in the comp so far.

 

[Dexter]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

They are still the same old Wallace and Soward. Mostly shit but playing behind a forward pack that is winning is making them look good. Penrith are playing well but they have had a soft draw so far and have really beat nothing teams for the most part. Played both Canberra and Newcastle twice and an Eels side minus Hayne.

Good point Beads, they have also played Eels and Titans twice and this really highlights a flaw in the draw

 

[Harry Sack]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

Yeah Peter Wallace is playing great, however did we let him go...

Are you suggesting we wanted to hang onto him?

What makes me laugh is the way we here at BHQ have lambasted both Soward and Wallace yet together they lead the competition ! It seems that other factors are in play here. Wallace always performed as well as he was able in my view. I always thought he was having a dig and to some extent Griffin and his game plan must have had an influence on Wallace.

I can't shake the feeling that last weeks game was an aberration and if Griffin demands they play a tedious style , we'll end up losing. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. I'd love to see a return to the entertainers of yesteryear.

I'm not sold yet tbh. They've had a bye and played (I think) 1 top 8 team. Them leading the table is misleading, but both players are playing well and with an obvious point to prove. Time will tell.

 

[Harry Sack]

Re: Sack Griffin/New Coach Discussion

They are still the same old Wallace and Soward. Mostly shit but playing behind a forward pack that is winning is making them look good. Penrith are playing well but they have had a soft draw so far and have really beat nothing teams for the most part. Played both Canberra and Newcastle twice and an Eels side minus Hayne.

Lol, pro tip for me. Read whole thread before commenting. Otherwise I just look like I'm stealing your thoughts.

Agreed 100%

 

[broncos4life]

Are you suggesting we wanted to hang onto him?



I'm not sold yet tbh. They've had a bye and played (I think) 1 top 8 team. Them leading the table is misleading, but both players are playing well and with an obvious point to prove. Time will tell.

I was being sarcastic. Wallace was average, is average will continue to be average

 

[ivanhungryjak]

Pretenders - mid table for mine.

 

[Big Pete]

Interesting discussion folks, decided to move it into here.

I decided to look into it a bit just to see whether or not some of the claims hold a lot of water.

Here is the Panthers draw so far...

vs. Knights - 30-8 W
vs. Storm - 17-18 L
vs. Bulldogs - 18-16 W
vs. Eels - 32-16 L
vs. Raiders - 12-6 W
vs. Rabbitohs - 2-18 L
vs. Titans - 14-12 W
vs. Sharks - 24-20 L
vs. Knights - 32-10 W
vs. Raiders - 26-20 W
BYE
vs. Eels - 38-12 W
vs. Titans 36-14 W

Four of those matches have been against Top 8 sides: Eels (x2), Souths & Bulldogs.

They still have to face off against Manly (R25), Roosters (R19), Broncos (R18), Tigers (R17), Cowboys (R23), Warriors (R16 & R26) & Dragons (R14 & R22).

With additional games against the Sharks, Bulldogs & Storm thrown in.

Now, no draw in the NRL is ever going to be just because it's never equal. Teams don't face off against other teams the same amount of time and as a result I don't think the Top 8 always reflects the best 8 sides all the time nor in the right order.

I also believe State of Origin has a tremendous influence on the competition. Not only because clubs are expected to be without players for certain matches but because those players are expected to play a higher quality game, bounce back and be able to hit their peak again a few months later.

How many players did Penrith give up for Origin this year?

Zero.

I think that's a huge advantage and I don't think teams should be rewarded for mediocrity or picking players of different nationalities.

That isn't to take credit away from Penrith. They do boast a very good all-round side that I believe will mature into out-right premiership favourites in a few years time but considering the quality of roster and measuring it on representative selection and other indicators of player quality it speaks volumes that a team like theirs is leading the competition.

For me, it offers one explanation as to why fans don't feel compelled enough to attend the footy. Why should I spend my hard earned money or my time on a competition that constantly rewards mediocrity and isn't just?

Personally I can forgive it but I can see why others wouldn't.

 

[Big Pete]

That my friend is called a rhetorical question. :laugh:

However, you can feel free to chime in.

I didn't touch on the Wallace question because that isn't what I was responding to. The topic had evolved beyond that point and became a far more interesting topic discussing whether or not Penrith's current position on the ladder is a true reflection of their performance so far this season.

I may not have been clear but I don't believe it's so and I believe the competition is engineer in a way that promotes mediocrity. Penrith may even finish first but like in 2010, I don't believe they'll stay there.

I wasn't interested about talking about Wallace because I have had enough conversations about him to last a lifetime on here. Also, I haven't watched that many Penrith games and had a chance to analyse them like I do with the Broncos - I am not a Twitter God or a SuperFreak. However, since you brought the topic back to Wallace I'll throw my 2c in.

That is I basically agree with you. Based on the games I've seen, Wallace has reverted back to his early 2012 form where he isn't a superstar but he's driving the team across the paddock and coming up with the odd important play.

However, I'm glad we got rid of him.

 

[Harry Sack]

I was being sarcastic. Wallace was average, is average will continue to be average

You are soooo lucky. Had my pimp hand all wound up and everything....

 

[Old Mate]

Wallace is a future immortal, anyone who says other wise is a wanker.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

They'll probably make the 8 but will come nowhere near the top 4.

 

[Fozz]

The Panthers are certainly overachieving, I think Gus has assembled a decent team but the draw has certainly helped them.

None of their wins thus far have been impressive. They've beaten Eels without Hayne and the Dogs while they were struggling with early form. Everyone else has really been nuffies. They should get a harder draw next year and we'll see a better indicator of how they are really travelling in 2015 so Gus will need some good pickups during the off-season.

 

[Huge]

Time to chime, then ;)

I don't believe Penrith are pretenders, nor champions in the short term but they are definitely building, as you've so eloquently stated. They will be found out post origin.

P.S just found the voice dictate button on the iPad -well wicked!

Well, dont keep it a secret, where is the voice dictate button ??????