PRE-GAME [Round 4, 2024] Broncos vs Cowboys

[Fitzy]

Carrigan was his inside man and hardly at fault for the play.

The knock on Baker is the play before his contact on Yeo was weak which allowed Penrith to get a quick play the ball. It just gave Luai all the time in the world to judge the situation and realise were short down the left and still on their line.

Good play from Penrith to force Mam to double-up and win that play the ball.

Carrigan was his inside man and hardly at fault for the play.

The knock on Baker is the play before his contact on Yeo was weak which allowed Penrith to get a quick play the ball. It just gave Luai all the time in the world to judge the situation and realise were short down the left and still on their line.

Good play from Penrith to force Mam to double-up and win that play the ball.

You are right I got the inside men confused with the Cleary unders dummy crash ball. Mam and Baker were both play the ball so Willison and Carrigan found themselves on the edge instead.

Panthers had the numbers big time on that play but it did take an awfully long time for both them to look up and recognise this and shift across anyway. Piakura can only cover across once the balls gone the logical move would to have had better communication and recognised there was a shit ton of space with themselves very short of numbers. Needed to look up and move across which comes down to communication from the two of them. Carrigan found himself way to infield and Willison had to cover across very late. The personnel wasn’t ideal there and it was a clusterfuck but Carrigan having played his fair share of Second Row and Piakura being no stranger to the edge should have both been better it’s not all down to Piakura that one. Spacing, communication, decision making and in the end cover defence all weren’t up to scratch from the 2 of them on that play.

Piakura with a tough tackle but he would have liked to make it. Shit happens, was mostly a clusterfuck of personel more than anything. If that’s the worst he gives in a game out of position where his edge gets touched up than someone else had a shocker. Seems it was Baker. Finding himself away from second row a lot in goal line defence.

 

[mstreet]

Because he was always going to be behind TPJ, Fifita, Glenn and every other 2nd rower at the time. Plus at the time he was the clubs best winger, why fix what ain't broke. Neither are the case anymore. We have two premier back rowers in Piakura and Riki. Nobody is saying Oates is going to rival them, but what he can do is cover about 4 positions off the bench pretty comfortably. Its a no brainer.

No disrespect. We medically retired Matt Gillet to make way for Tpj and Fifita. It was a changing of the guard moment.

Big Pete will know the timeline.

It still doesn't change the narrative. Why was no coach on any level transitioned Corey Oates? Why has no club outside the Broncos, picked him up, and transitioned him?

Corey will always have a place in my heart.

 

[Fitzy]

Hunt was good in the trials, but very very uninspiring in Qcup

Likewise thought this. It was a game where he had Paix shift to half early on in a team/edge he had never played in. Disappointing game but it can happen. He showed a lot more than that in the trials. I still think he has more go in him at Second row than the alternatives and he has value through the middle. For that alone I’d go with him and hope that the NRL just gets the best decision making and defence out of him.

 

[mstreet]

Watching those tries back it seems Fletcher was by far the issue at second row rather than Piakura at centre.

First try he was loitering in the middle with Carrigan then at half, Mam second row, Piakura centre and Arthars Wing. Just got done for numbers and space because the middles had no idea they had to push across further because numbers were lacking. That’s something Walsh would communicate that Cobbo might not be as aware of. Why Baker was that far central of the field is a mystery.

Second try was Piakura’s miss but he had a lot of space to cover as a result of quite a late read and push off from his inside man (aka baker). Also Bakers pathetic missed tackle on Cleary that walked them down that end of the field.

3rd try non edge related from Kenny (no try).

4th try Piakura had a good read and folded Cleary but Jesse just shuffled across and created the space. Probably could have just waited for Cleary to pass and cover instead to give themselves a crack at stopping it but it well and truely broke down inside him and was well gone on the outside. Was a try either through them or around them due to Ezra’s poor read just meant they were 5 metres closer to the sticks.

From there the left edge was fine (Piakura went back to SR though) and the right just got done by Cleary’s dummy unders plays holding the defence up and Riki just to slow to be the last ditch cover defence.

Same again on the final try but this time Riki covered in time and they embarrassingly just gone ran through.

Good performance by Cleary without a doubt.

Watching it back his only defensive miss was the tackle which I’d back him to make next time but reality is he still wasn’t overly helped by his inside men, he had a lot of space to cover.

I’d be bringing in Hunt to the bench and keeping Piakura as the back shifter and then when TPJ inevitably gets signed Hunt drops out for him.

Brave man. I'm about to watch the replay. It's like watching our last grand final

 

[Big Pete]

Panthers had the numbers big time on that play but it did take an awfully long time for both them to look up and recognise this and shift across anyway. Piakura can only cover across once the balls gone the logical move would to have had better communication and recognised there was a shit ton of space with themselves very short of numbers. Needed to look up and move across which comes down to communication from the two of them. Carrigan found himself way to infield and Willison had to cover across very late. The personnel wasn’t ideal there and it was a clusterfuck but Carrigan having played his fair share of Second Row and Piakura being no stranger to the edge should have both been better it’s not all down to Piakura that one. Spacing, communication, decision making and in the end cover defence all weren’t up to scratch from the 2 of them on that play.

The issue is that if Carrigan drifts, Cleary just plays short Edwards has an easy passage on Patty's inside shoulder and Willison struggling to get off the line. The positioning was fine given the circumstances, Brisbane just didn't get the numbers right with Mam, Baker and Jensen all ball tracking instead of covering the switch.

It's not all on Piakura, but can't absolve him of blame there either.

Also worth noting this didn't directly come off the Cleary break, but after the awful kick from Madden.

 

[Big Pete]

No disrespect. We medically retired Matt Gillet to make way for Tpj and Fifita. It was a changing of the guard moment.

Big Pete will know the timeline.

It still doesn't change the narrative. Why was no coach on any level transitioned Corey Oates? Why has no club outside the Broncos, picked him up, and transitioned him?

Corey will always have a place in my heart.

I actually think he makes a fair point.

Oates wanted to make the transition during the 2017/18 pre-season. One of the issues was that the Broncos had an embarrassment of riches in the second row.

Matt Gillett was the best second row in the game, Alex Glenn was reliable veteran and they had Pangai Jr, Su'A, Fifita, Palasia and Savelio coming through.

Meanwhile their wing options were mediocre. Outside of Jordan Kahu, they had Jonus Pearson and Jamayne Isaako who had barely played on the wing coming through the grades. So that was always going to be the best fit for Oates and the team.

With that said, I don't think Oates was ever going to be the 40 tackles, 12 hit-ups, 10+ season tries second rower and I think coaches realise he's at his best when he's working it out of yardage and rampaging towards the line.

I'm not sure how keen Oatesy would be either after they tried to amputate his leg last time he played there.

 

[Foordy]

Think either of our 9 options have it in them to do what Kenny did to us on the weekend?

Reckon nearly every hooker will be doing it this weekend now it has the all clear from the NRL so hopefully by some miracle one of our 2 can figure out how to do it. (The doubt is strong)

The NRL have said it is legal, so every single hooker should be doing it on play 5 this weekend

 

[007]

I think the benefit of Oates in the 17 as an experiment, gives a bit more mobility on the outside and versatility to shuffle etc.

The lateral communication with Piakura from the inside was lacking and too many times panthers spread it wide then straightened up. It happened both inside and outside shoulders but it was either catch up defence or over run defence. Cleary's cue all came from the middle defenders and he ran with it from there. Shooting fish in a barrel.

No idea how Oates would physically hold up or his current fitness. He would be needed for at least 30 mins of game time.

 

[Organix]

The NRL have said it is legal, so every single hooker should be doing it on play 5 this weekend

Another thing to note from this game was how Penrith protected the kicker on the 5th tackle:
The pass from Kenny at DH is thrown to Cleary, but Kenny tracks across to block the marker. Effectively providing an obstruction but legitimising it by having handled the ball, as opposed to blockers positioning themselves at the PTB. I think this is quite a clever tactic under the rules, and something that we should also employ.
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I really think that this is something every team should be doing. Playing rugby/league growing up the coaches always talked about this kind of legal blocking as part of your job. By that I mean that they always said "your job isn't over as soon as you've passed the ball".

 

[BroncsFan]

The NRL have said it is legal, so every single hooker should be doing it on play 5 this weekend

And watch markers run into the hooker and fall over looking for the penalty... at which point a ref will pay it.... and then mass confusion ensues and it becomes a discretionary penalty.

Sometimes they'll blow it against the dummy half... sometimes they wont
Sometimes they'll pay the dive... sometimes they won't

All Annesley had to do was say it's illegal and our refs will be looking out for it... but nah... let's keep it vague and we'll let Trent decide game to game and situation to situation

 

[BroncosFever]

Why is it Penrith that always come up with this shit?

Are they the new Melbourne?

 

[Organix]

And watch markers run into the hooker and fall over looking for the penalty... at which point a ref will pay it.... and then mass confusion ensues and it becomes a discretionary penalty.

Sometimes they'll blow it against the dummy half... sometimes they wont
Sometimes they'll pay the dive... sometimes they won't

All Annesley had to do was say it's illegal and our refs will be looking out for it... but nah... let's keep it vague and we'll let Trent decide game to game and situation to situation

100%

 

[Foordy]

And watch markers run into the hooker and fall over looking for the penalty... at which point a ref will pay it.... and then mass confusion ensues and it becomes a discretionary penalty.

Sometimes they'll blow it against the dummy half... sometimes they wont
Sometimes they'll pay the dive... sometimes they won't

All Annesley had to do was say it's illegal and our refs will be looking out for it... but nah... let's keep it vague and we'll let Trent decide game to game and situation to situation

No-one has ever accused the NRL of being competent at what they do.

they changed the rules to stop blockers ... only to immediately allow a work around that has the same damn effect.

 

[Organix]

Why is it Penrith that always come up with this shit?

Are they the new Melbourne?

I think there are only a couple of coaches in the NRL that really have the brains and the cunning for these tactics. Bellamy, Cleary and Bennett. The rest focus on attacking plays to do their clever work. Those three I listed think about the game as a whole. They think about defense as a primary and they think about the game from both sides. So, they think, "what will I do now that I have no blockers in my way at getting to the kicker? Do I rush the kicker? How can they avoid the rush play?" Then they think about maximising the play from an attacking standpoint. Dropping the kicker deeper means losing 10m on the kick, but bringing the kicker up means lower percentage plays, etc. These 3 coaches are way above the others. If I were to say there were top 5, I would put Robinson and Webster.

Wayne Bennett	Genius all-rounder, cunning and rule-bending. Also, definitely a psychologically manipulative person.
Craig Bellamy	Genius all-rounder, cunning and rule-bending
Ivan Cleary	Genius all-rounder, cunning and rule-bending
Trent Robinson	Smart, pay to win
Andrew Webster	Smart, heart
Ricky Stuart	Smash 'em. Just an old school coach who knows Rugby League back to front, but isn't particularly creative.
Kevin Walters	Heart (gritty determination in defence) and emotion. I suspect Briers has a lot to do with our great attack. No offense, Kevvie. Love you.
Cameron Ciraldo	Buy the boys with beers after the game
Jason Demetriou	Smart, but no heart, needs interpersonal skills
Craig Fitzgibbon	Smash 'em
Anthony Seibold	Nerdy attacking plays, needs interpersonal skills
Adam O'Brien	Individual brilliance and some attacking plays
Todd Payten	Smart, heart
Brad Arthur	Smash 'em, defense, attack through forwards ball-handling
Benji Marshall	Wait and see. I think it will be flashy attack, defence will be a huge issue
Ryan Carr †	Eesh, individual brilliance
Jim Lenihan †	Eesh.

 

[Super Freak]

Staggs has been a bit off to start this year, I'm hoping he's switched on for this game.

Cowboys left edge was vulnerable against the Dragons. Dragons were having a field day on that edge and bombed a couple tries as well. They should have put them to the sword, but kept fucking up.

It would be better to have Walsh there to exploit that edge, but Tristan is more than capable to do the job. It's not going to work if Staggs isn't on though.

 

[john1420]

Oates - good outside back cover, largely unproven but could probably do a job at second-row/in the middle for a short stint.

Capewell - average to fair second-row cover, can do a job in the middle for a short stint, serviceable outside back cover.

I don't know that I can agree that we are 'so much weaker' without Capewell. If you need either to replace a back, Oates is arguably the better option. If you don't and either just ends up playing fifteen to twenty minutes as an interchange forward, Capes obviously has an edge, but on his form last year is it leaps and bounds ahead? He probably makes more of a difference in Vegas, sure.

Cards were stacked against us on Thursday. Even if we'd had Capewell, I can't see us winning that game.

Totally agree @Culhwch ..... anyone suggesting Capewell was the difference between winning and losing V Penrith doesn't have a clue

 

[BroncosFever]

People were getting stuck into Capewell while he was here and now he's gone, there's been a few wild takes about how much we miss him (probably from the same people who wanted him benched).

 

[Manofoneway]

Staggs has been a bit off to start this year, I'm hoping he's switched on for this game.

Cowboys left edge was vulnerable against the Dragons. Dragons were having a field day on that edge and bombed a couple tries as well. They should have put them to the sword, but kept fucking up.

It would be better to have Walsh there to exploit that edge, but Tristan is more than capable to do the job. It's not going to work if Staggs isn't on though.

Staggs has been one of our best