Round 9 - Penrith Panthers - Pre Game discussion

[Morkel]

I hope you're right mate, because I think Reed, like Maranta, is the type of low risk player Bennett likes, and yes, I was one of the people who said so last season (no, I didn't include Lowrie or Stagg as well :wink:), in the sense that safety and abnegation trump talent and ability. I can't argue against it, as it definitely delivers results, but I don't like how far WB takes it... for example:

I would prefer Vidot to Maranta, but I can totally see why Wayne prefers the opposite and won't criticise him for it.
However, I don't think Reed has been any better than Copley this season, in any aspect, bar one single game, and that is where I cannot agree with this decision.

But if you are right, and this results in Copley coming back a better player, and ends up taking the left centre spot ahead of Reed, I will gladly eat humble pie!

Agree on all of that. Including Reed arguably being no better than Copley this year. But to twist it, who has more improvement in them? Who of those two are ultimately better on their best day and therefore will benefit from a challenge?

 

[rnabokov]

Broncos NRL Player Statistics - NRL.com

I know stats do not tell the whole story but looking at Copley and reed shows double the tackle count and almost double the average running meters gained in reeds favour, from memory they both have 10 or so missed tackles. Reed also has a try to his name and copely has zilch. Copes had a calf strain early in the year and there is a possibility he is still under done or a bit low on confidence. I just cant help but feel there is a real grudge with some people on this forum in regards to reed and this is causing people to blindly attack him. His speed may not be there but I struggle to see how he has not improved under bennet. I was unhappy with him in game one but honestly feel he has played solidly since. Copes had a good year last year but in my opinion has not looked close to that form this year and before anyone calls out the fact he has swapped and changed positions this year the same was true of last except this year he was used defensively as wing and attack at centre until hodges being injured and in my opinion did not take that opportunity to cement the position. Can anyone honestly say based on form right now he did enough to warrant immediate undoubted inclusion in the top 17. My answer is no.

Isn't this all about Maranta?

Isn't the real issue here that Maranta is Bennett's preference because he is the safest option - depending on your definition of "safest" - and that is why it's always going to be "either Reed or Copley" (and Vidot and possibly Kahu now that Boyd looks like he is back.

While Maranta is relatively very safe under the high ball, personally, I would prefer either Reed or Copley, and in my side, I would have Reed on the wing and Copley in the centres, learning his game where it most counts: where he is challenged most.

For mine, Copley is twice the player Maranta is ... given a little time and stability in the top grade at centre, and for mine, that is definitely worth taking the risk given the impact Copley can have on a game as we have seen last year in particular.

 

[redbur95]

My insider informs me that Copley is carrying a small injury. No idea why the Broncos are covering it up, but Wayne Bennett does what Wayne Bennett wants. At least I trust his judgement, rather than the team sheets under Griffin, which had me pulling out hairs every week. (Wallace to hooker, McCullough to lock, ugh)

 

[Porthoz]

Agree on all of that. Including Reed arguably being no better than Copley this year. But to twist it, who has more improvement in them? Who of those two are ultimately better on their best day and therefore will benefit from a challenge?

I'm not sure sending Copley to ISC and keeping Reed in FG is "a challenge" though? It's not like Copley has had Vidot moments and needs to reflect whether he can be in FG.

Young players coming from youth grades, can solidify their footy in the ISC playing against seasoned men, but I just can't see how a first grader like Copley can improve his game in ISC to be honest.

 

[Danoz Direct]

I'm not sure sending Copley to ISC and keeping Reed in FG is "a challenge" though? It's not like Copley has had Vidot moments and needs to reflect whether he can be in FG.

Young players coming from youth grades, can solidify their footy in the ISC playing against seasoned men, but I just can't see how a first grader like Copley can improve his game in ISC to be honest.

Copley was defensively bad last week, so maybe he has been sent to ISC to fix it up.

 

[Foordy]

I'm not sure sending Copley to ISC and keeping Reed in FG is "a challenge" though? It's not like Copley has had Vidot moments and needs to reflect whether he can be in FG.

Young players coming from youth grades, can solidify their footy in the ISC playing against seasoned men, but I just can't see how a first grader like Copley can improve his game in ISC to be honest.

Give Copley some bloody stability and we will see some vast improvements IMO.

Moving from center to wing, left to right doesn't help ... especially with his defence and timings.

Left center should be his spot, if you need some one moving around the backline it should be Reed. He can also play center and wing, but unlike Copley, he shouldn't be a fixture in our full strength backline, so he should be the player that fills in positions when the regular players are unavailable

 

[Foordy]

Copley was defensively bad last week, so maybe he has been sent to ISC to fix it up.

Reed has been poor defensively all of this season (bar maybe one game) and most of last season ... when does he have to go back to ISC to "fix it up"

 

[Unbreakable]

Kahu to left wing and Oates to the bench, confirmed by Bennett.

 

[Foordy]

hopefully Molo drops off.

 

[Harry Sack]

Agree on all of that. Including Reed arguably being no better than Copley this year. But to twist it, who has more improvement in them? Who of those two are ultimately better on their best day and therefore will benefit from a challenge?

Precisely my point. I'm hopeful that this is the game that Bennett is playing.

 

[Brozilla]

Reed has been poor defensively all of this season (bar maybe one game) and most of last season ... when does he have to go back to ISC to "fix it up"

Are we watching the same Reed? Apart from one silly defensive error he's been solid as ****.

 

[Big Pete]

Molo to Norths confirmed

Boyd To Take Time To Shine - Broncos

He's "Frank" by the by.

 

[rnabokov]

Are we watching the same Reed? Apart from one silly defensive error he's been solid as ****.

My main problem with Reed - and I have always liked him until recently - except on the wing which I think is his best position for the moment - is that he is slow to react and turn in defence against really quick opposition.

Copley on the other hand seems to go to sleep positionally in defence at times ad needs a wake up call which, for mine, is best done in the top side rather than in the lower grades.

However, as I posted earlier, I think this is as much if not more about Bennett wanting to keep Maranta in the side than about Copley (or Reed).

Maybe Copley does have an injury as posted earlier? Still, can't keep all 3 with Boyd returning, and Kahu available who for mine, is a class player.

 

[theshed]

Maybe boyd pushes Kahu to left centre. He and Reed will swap during the game like reed/copley?

I've got to say that I don't hate that as I think Kahu is the best of those 3 players.

 

[Porthoz]

Are we watching the same Reed? Apart from one silly defensive error he's been solid as ****.

Reed averages 1.7 ineffective and 2.4 missed tackles per game (same as Copley), and only had a clean sheet against Parra (on the wing), which is the only game where Reed actually outperformed Copley statistically, and also the one game which makes Copley's averages look worse than they are.

All in all, not exactly what I would call "solid as ****".

 

[Cult]

Reed averages 1.7 ineffective and 2.4 missed tackles per game (same as Copley), and only had a clean sheet against Parra (on the wing), which is the only game where Reed actually outperformed Copley statistically, and also the one game which makes Copley's averages look worse than they are.

All in all, not exactly what I would call "solid as ****".

How many more tackles does he make though? This is why stats don't mean shit.

 

[Socnorb]

My main problem with Reed - and I have always liked him until recently - except on the wing which I think is his best position for the moment - is that he is slow to react and turn in defence against really quick opposition.

Copley on the other hand seems to go to sleep positionally in defence at times ad needs a wake up call which, for mine, is best done in the top side rather than in the lower grades.

However, as I posted earlier, I think this is as much if not more about Bennett wanting to keep Maranta in the side than about Copley (or Reed).

Maybe Copley does have an injury as posted earlier? Still, can't keep all 3 with Boyd returning, and Kahu available who for mine, is a class player.

But he pretty much iced James Roberts V the Titans

 

[Morkel]

Reed has been poor defensively all of this season (bar maybe one game) and most of last season ... when does he have to go back to ISC to "fix it up"

Because Reed is Reed. We've seen his best, and even though he can be caught out every now and again, he's the definition of solid. There is no point in demoting him, because you can't get blood out of a stone, he's never going to just turn in to a superstar. But even at his worst, he's better than Copley was last week, at least in terms of jeapardising the entire defensive line.

Copley was a liability last week. He let in more tries in one game than Reed has all year. He's too big a risk right now to simply persevere with in the NRL team. Unlike a Steve Michaels though, there is a great fucking footballer in there, and it's only going to take some subtle things to turn that around. What's better than being able to give him real match situations for him to work with, in his preferred position, with absolutely zero risk to the fortunes of the NRL team? It makes perfect sense to me. Sure it's a step down in terms of quality of opposition, but think of it as playing a really tough video game at an 80% speed setting to prime yourself for the real deal.