Under 19 Origin

[Big Del]

How were my pre-game notes?

Leota has a lot of work to do, I keep saying his time out of the game is very telling and last night was another lighthouse performance.

Lewis Symonds was easily Queensland's best player.

Queensland defence, I thought on the goal and scramble was excellent. That is probably the big tick for Te'o.

Attack wise I think Queensland were pretty poor, they didn't show or threaten at all. How many runs from the outside backs? Blues ended up with twice as many tackle-breaks 56-25. The one ball movement they scored easily.

Black, I have seen that performance 30 times now and I was hoping he'd do something other than kick. Queensand's two tries had nothing to do with the half.

It's worrying that his performance doesn't stand up in bigger games. Alf Finals, Meninga finals, Meninga Grand Final, City v Country and now Origin. My comment for two years has been has to do more than kick and pass.

I have been saying bomb out of the right corner and support play are his two strengths and he just bombed out of the right corner last night.

Did he play badly, no he just did his standard thing the only time he slightly went out of the lines was to chip and chase and it was not the right kick.

Stewart was Man of the Match and returning every kick with interest and no one decided let's mix it up and make him do something other than bomb catch practise?

Black had the advantage of a strong relationship with Symonds from Marsden, Bukowski, Allen, Armstrong from Wynnum and Milford Bears

I don't think he linked with them once or took the line on with them running with him.

I think Queensland's defence kept them in the game but their attack was where they lost it. Should have been able to score three or four tries and win it.

@McHunt
Where is the next Cyril Connell ?

 

[mitch222]

Queensland got lucky the score was that close. NSW butchered quite a few tries
But its to be expected at this age with throw together teams at the last minute.

 

[1910]

Purdue shouldn't miss out on some attacking glare too, been in great Cup form and why wasn't he sniffing around Black like Inness would be doing?

Inness scored a great try last year in the Meninga finals off a Black kick, Leota scored a great try in Cup two weeks ago off a Black kick- where was that variety using the pace of Purdue?

Stephenson one on one is unstoppable for Tweed- nearly scored in the first five minutes running beautifully, then didn't do it again.

 

[Big Pete]

The kicking from Black seemed excellent and I think that’s a great foundation to build on. Give him two or three years and he’ll be a gun. Do agree with you though, he was pretty limited in attack. Did show some footy smarts at times though.

Outside of one grubber into the in-goal which nobody bothered to chase, I thought his short kicking game was lousy.

Which is what I was aiming at by calling him a punter. His long distance kicking game was impressive and that's a solid starting point for any young half. However all the other aspects (short distance, running, ball-playing, organising, defence) were lacking and it's not just a once off either.

 

[BroncosFever]

How were my pre-game notes?

Leota has a lot of work to do, I keep saying his time out of the game is very telling and last night was another lighthouse performance.

Lewis Symonds was easily Queensland's best player.

Queensland defence, I thought on the goal and scramble was excellent. That is probably the big tick for Te'o.

Attack wise I think Queensland were pretty poor, they didn't show or threaten at all. How many runs from the outside backs? Blues ended up with twice as many tackle-breaks 56-25. The one ball movement they scored easily.

Black, I have seen that performance 30 times now and I was hoping he'd do something other than kick. Queensand's two tries had nothing to do with the half.

It's worrying that his performance doesn't stand up in bigger games. Alf Finals, Meninga finals, Meninga Grand Final, City v Country and now Origin. My comment for two years has been has to do more than kick and pass.

I have been saying bomb out of the right corner and support play are his two strengths and he just bombed out of the right corner last night.

Did he play badly, no he just did his standard thing the only time he slightly went out of the lines was to chip and chase and it was not the right kick.

Stewart was Man of the Match and returning every kick with interest and no one decided let's mix it up and make him do something other than bomb catch practise?

Black had the advantage of a strong relationship with Symonds from Marsden, Bukowski, Allen, Armstrong from Wynnum and Milford Bears

I don't think he linked with them once or took the line on with them running with him.

I think Queensland's defence kept them in the game but their attack was where they lost it. Should have been able to score three or four tries and win it.

Hopefully you get out to see a doctor after dislocating your own shoulder when trying to pat yourself on the back.

 

[Big Del]

Outside of one grubber into the in-goal which nobody bothered to chase, I thought his short kicking game was lousy.

Which is what I was aiming at by calling him a punter. His long distance kicking game was impressive and that's a solid starting point for any young half. However all the other aspects (short distance, running, ball-playing, organising, defence) were lacking and it's not just a once off either.

But , but ,but , he can kick 60 metres !

 

[Big Pete]

But , but ,but , he can kick 60 metres !

Who needs Ricky Stuart when an 18 year old can do the bare minimum?

 

[Renegade]

Leota was so bad.

 

[Mustafur]

Perspective on Black is warped here, he might be capable of more then he did which makes those that watch him regularly not being impressed but the part of his game we did see is not something you expect from a player at his level at all.

The kicking game is the hardest part of being a Half and why most are rubbish these days, the rest is the easy part.

I think he looks like the player that will improve dramatically when he has better players around him, stick him in some set play scenarios with the likes of Walsh and Mam and the rest of his game will come to him.

Still awhile away from first grade but that's fine, he just entered Cup now and in his first appearance he made the Cup team of the week.

 

[Big Pete]

By his standards, it was what you'd come to expect from Black. His long distance kicking game is strong, but the rest of his play is lacking and he doesn't assume enough control. It's not like he's unfamiliar with his dummy half either - they played a season together for the Seagulls and have come up through the academy.

I certainly don't think he did his chances any harm last night. However I'm just pointing out the attributes he needs to work on if he's going to become a long term option at the club. I'm certainly not going to count my chickens before they hatch and hope he comes good because he has Walsh and Mam by his side - two players who themselves still need guidance.

 

[1910]

Perspective on Black is warped here, he might be capable of more then he did which makes those that watch him regularly not being impressed but the part of his game we did see is not something you expect from a player at his level at all.

The kicking game is the hardest part of being a Half and why most are rubbish these days, the rest is the easy part.

I think he looks like the player that will improve dramatically when he has better players around him, stick him in some set play scenarios with the likes of Walsh and Mam and the rest of his game will come to him.

Still awhile away from first grade but that's fine, he just entered Cup now and in his first appearance he made the Cup team of the week.

I don't know it is the easy part- it's understanding the game and the situation.

I need to get Stephenson early ball; I need to combine with Symonds on that side, we need to attack the left edge. That front rower just turned his back and was slow- time to run. How can I get Purdue into this?

Bombing Stewart isn't bringing the result we want, we need to attack another way.

Under fatigue and in the game, he didn't register any of those things and didn't have a try assist.

Does it mean his career is over, of course not but it's worth noting that the other parts of his game are very underdeveloped including parts of his kicking game that aren't bombs or long kicks.

Compare Walker and Black at the exact same age.

'Sam Walker... highly impressed with him'

As Sam Walker gets ready for an NRL debut with the Sydney Roosters, here is a look back at the talent and finesse he showed for the Ipswich Jets, Queensland Under 18 side and Australian Schoolboys in 2019. Video: Bill Scurfield/QRL

www.qrl.com.au

I don't think Black under-performed I think he hit his level at the moment. If he was a batsman, we got a conservative 45 runs with no risk.

 

[Mr Fourex]

RE Black

Nothing to get buck wild naked over but.......

I did feel it
move

particularly over that 40/20.

 

[BroncsFan]

By his standards, it was what you'd come to expect from Black. His long distance kicking game is strong, but the rest of his play is lacking and he doesn't assume enough control. It's not like he's unfamiliar with his dummy half either - they played a season together for the Seagulls and have come up through the academy.

I certainly don't think he did his chances any harm last night. However I'm just pointing out the attributes he needs to work on if he's going to become a long term option at the club. I'm certainly not going to count my chickens before they hatch and hope he comes good because he has Walsh and Mam by his side - two players who themselves still need guidance.

Would you suggest that he's like an Ilias at this stage?

Get the team to 5th tackle and box kick to the corner.

I think Ilias has a pretty decent boot on him (although it's seriously erratic) and strong defence... which is a good base to build from for a young half and it would be hoped other parts develop through experience.

Black's kicking game is already better than Ilias, but defence is below... not unexpected for an 18yr old against extremely physical NSW prospects... which seems to be their modus operandi for this game.

I did like the obstruction call he got out of the refs... showed some smarts.

I saw him digging into the line a fair bit, which at times opened up outside him... unfortunately he had Leota on his side of the field. He also created an overlap in the dying stages but the left center didnt pass to the unmarked winger. Could've been the game winner because he was trailing on the inside in support

Overall though I didnt really think he pressured the defensive line with his engagements... didnt really suck players into him to open up for others and didnt really take a dart at the line... which is probably where you are getting at.

There was also one point down his edge where he had the second rower in a half gap but he hesitated and didnt pass... wonder if that was lack of trust in his teammates to actually hold the ball.

The NSW halfback on the other hand was having a shot at the line and also put in some nice kicks... so I think if you're talking about a hyped up junior, you're probably wanting to see them do everything at that level to have real confidence in their ability... for example Reece was electric in his trial before he got targeted and poached by warriors.

I think if Coby attempted a few more things in attack it would be looked on a bit more positively, but the attack overall just looked ultra conservative.

There was no attempt from any in the spine to put on a backline shift inside their own half... is that Coby or is that coaching

 

[Big Del]

Who needs Ricky Stuart when an 18 year old can do the bare minimum?

There ya go !
Now you`re gettin it !
Get him into the team next round . Fck Jock and his 30 metre kicks off back to Q Cup . This kid is a prodigy !

 

[Sproj]

The reality is, assuming we hold on to Mam (which we have) and Walsh (which we assume will happen), you don't need another bloke with x-factor. You need a bloke who can steer the team around, has a good boot and can tackle.

We saw all those things last night and it must be remembered, he was behind a forward pack that, like is always the case at u19s, were getting smashed by NSW. He could have been less conservative and I am sure he will be as he matures and comes up to speed with the level.

I mean, Milford beat out Munster at u19 level to make the starting 6 spot, look how their careers have progressed since. No one should be looking for the finished product at this age but what we do want to see is a guy who has a strong foundation and slows glimpses - Black more than showed that.

Leota on the other hand...wow, he has bust written all over him. Let's hope he figures it out and comes good but man, even the basics just aren't there, looks a Mahe Fonua-lite.

 

[Mr Fourex]

I think if Coby attempted a few more things in attack it would be looked on a bit more positively, but the attack overall just looked ultra conservative.

For those that know more than me........how has he (Black) looked when his team is actually on the front foot?

Game management is IMO just as important as a good kick for a no.7. He showed none when I was watching...although the obstruction was clever, was it by luck or him spotting an opportunity? He appears smart enough.... maybe. That side was a rabble last night...is that on him?
Bit harsh....

 

[Sproj]

For those that know more than me........how has he (Black) looked when his team is actually on the front foot?

Game management is IMO just as important as a good kick for a no.7. He showed none when I was watching...although the obstruction was clever, was it by luck or him spotting an opportunity? He appears smart enough.... maybe. That side was a rabble last night...is that on him?
Bit harsh....

I don't think he was helped by his wingers, especially Leota. Part of game management really is being able to kick to the corners and expecting your wingers will help you out by competing. Leota was absolutely trash at that AND kept giving away offside penalties. It would have been hard for any halfback to manage a situation where you have one bloke doing his absolute best to destroy his own career before it has got going.

The other aspect as well is that Qld were never really in front, so there was never a really a chance for him to track and take on the option to manage a lead.

 

[1910]

The reality is, assuming we hold on to Mam (which we have) and Walsh (which we assume will happen), you don't need another bloke with x-factor. You need a bloke who can steer the team around, has a good boot and can tackle.

We saw all those things last night and it must be remembered, he was behind a forward pack that, like is always the case at u19s, were getting smashed by NSW. He could have been less conservative and I am sure he will be as he matures and comes up to speed with the level.

I mean, Milford beat out Munster at u19 level to make the starting 6 spot, look how their careers have progressed since. No one should be looking for the finished product at this age but what we do want to see is a guy who has a strong foundation and slows glimpses - Black more than showed that.

Leota on the other hand...wow, he has bust written all over him. Let's hope he figures it out and comes good but man, even the basics just aren't there, looks a Mahe Fonua-lite.

X factor isn’t what’s being called for, passing the ball and targeting spot defenders, combining with players and engineering attack is being called for- that’s getting a team around the field.

Te’o wanted Queensland to attack to the left edge- how many times did it happen?