Round 8 - Broncos vs. Rabbitohs - Pre-Game discussion

[Unbreakable]

apparently it is 400k a year but your point remains

450k? Where did that figure come from? Everywhere I read had him at $1M over 3 years.

Shane Flanagan shrugs off supplements rumours

Martin Kennedy is said to be on $400,000 plus

400k is the minimum that he's on, could be higher.

 

[Big Pete]

Weidler

Seems legit.

 

[GCBRONCO]

1.2 million over 3 years, 400k a season according to zerotackle.

 

[Sproj]

To me, 4 key things stood out in the Knights game which transformed this team. The other posts touch on others as well.

1. Barba. He got involved. He popped up when he was needed, and he did things this side has been lacking for years. He played as a second (or was it 1st) 5/8, creating opportunities, making plays. The Gillett try was a gem. At last, Gillett was used as he should be every match, running holes set up by clever playmaking.

2. Energy and enthusiasm for almost 80 minutes across the park.

3. Support play. So so good to see.

4. Ball movement. We made the ball do the work. Haven't seen that for ages, consistently, for so long throughout the match.

5. Defence - on the whole, absolutely 1st class, although there were moments when we still gave them too much room to move. We give Inglis and Sutton room, we have real problems


One problem, Hunt's kicking needs to improve. Too many 7 tackles given away, but he's getting better slowly. He actually did a cross field kick and look what happened. Please give Vidot some chances from cross field kicks.

It would be good to see Macca and Barba take on more of the kicking respnsibilities.

While I still would like to see Barba at 5/8, I know it won't happen, but if he keeps bobbing up on both sides, he will make up for our lack of a proper 5/8.

If we build on this performance, I can see a win by 12.

This is a really good post but love the counting. ;)

 

[Porthoz]

I don't understand why you think playing prop and lock are the same thing... Its not... He clearly is not playing the same exact role...

Just because Gallen plays lock exactly the same way he plays prop does not mean that all locks are props. The only reason Gallen plays that way is because for years no one in his team stood up, so Gallen thinks he has to do everything himself. So he takes every hit up possible, regardless if he was playing prop or lock.

What does Gallen have to do with this? How Gallen plays has nothing to do with why I think Parker is playing the same way with the 10 on his back, as he was when he was playing with the 13.

Having said that, Parker is far from a regular lock too, he's just playing less minutes this season and takes the odd first or second tackle, but has not decreased his production or effectiveness per minute. He still runs in the ruck, defends in the ruck, and offloads in attack the same way he used to do last season.

Please tell me what is he doing differently from last season?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Shane Flanagan shrugs off supplements rumours



400k is the minimum that he's on, could be higher.

The only number used in the media when he was signed was 1M over 3 years. The Weidler article says we offered 1.4M per year to Smith and 700k+ for Milford, which should give you some idea of where he lies on the plausible-sensationalism scale.

That being said, it would be smart to front-load MK's contract given we had plenty of space for this year, so there's no reason both numbers can't be true.

 

[bazza]

What does Gallen have to do with this? How Gallen plays has nothing to do with why I think Parker is playing the same way with the 10 on his back, as he was when he was playing with the 13.

Having said that, Parker is far from a regular lock too, he's just playing less minutes this season and takes the odd first or second tackle, but has not decreased his production or effectiveness per minute. He still runs in the ruck, defends in the ruck, and offloads in attack the same way he used to do last season.

Please tell me what is he doing differently from last season?

Well ever since Gallen has played prop, everyone thinks that lock and prop are interchangeable, including yourself it seems. But they are completely different positions.

Parker is not playing the same way at prop as he does at lock. Stats wise it may seem that he is playing like his usual self, however stats don't indicate the quality/effectiveness, instead it just shows quantity. We get more quality out of Parker at lock than at prop.

At prop, Parker is forced to take runs earlier in the set to allow the team some go forward. That is not how he should be used. He is not a prop. That is for much bigger and stronger players who can bend the line. Yes, he still defends pretty much the same, runs with the same vigour, still offloads, its just not as lethal from prop as it is from lock. Look at T. Merrin, he played prop, but he is way more effective at lock.

At lock, Parker would take the hit up when there was room created from the runs of his prop forwards. The difference is that at lock, other players would be the one starting off our sets. This allowed Parker to inject himself at will when the opposition is on the back foot, allowing him to attract multiple defenders and pop an offload, creating an attacking opportunity. At prop he is unable to pick his moments as he is restricted to lead the side out of their own end. He is forced to take the regulation hit up out of our half, rather than taking the hit up after the props have bent the line.

At prop, the effectiveness of his offloads are reduced. Although he is still offloading, the offloads aren't as effective, as no space has been created in the opposition defence. That is because these offloads are coming early in the set, rather than later. At times he isn't in a position to offload because where in our own end. If he was to take the hit up later on the set, we would be in much better field position to make an offload.

Prop is very physically demanding, and lets face it, Parker is no giant. The size of his opposition forwards in comparison to Parker is immense. Sooner or later it will affect his body, and niggling injuries will develop throughout the season. On top of that we won't be fully utilising Parkers strengths, similar to how we wasted Thaiday's strengths, which also was not at prop.

There was a reason he was the worlds best lock. I'm pretty certain he won't win an award as the worlds best prop.

But each to their own...

 

[Porthoz]

Wonderful essay, based on the fallacy that Parker is playing as props do. Think of it as him being a prop that plays like a lock, not the other way around... because there is a difference.

How many times this season have you seen Parker take the first or second hit-up? He is still taking the same runs at the same time in the set and with the same efficiency. Yes, he does occasionally, and I stress the word occasionally, take an early hit-up, but most of the times, he has been playing where he has always played. By the way, whether you're a prop or a lock, you're still running at and trying to stop the same big guys, so that physical aspect is another non issue you're using to argue your case.

I don't base conclusions out of statistics, I use them as a tool to verify and confirm my views, which is how statistics should always be used!

Sorry mate, that 10 on his back is blurring your vision to everything else. Maybe you should stop and think why Parker is playing with that number, instead of worrying that he's being used as a classic prop, which he is not!

 

[Super Freak]

Broncos have played the Rabbitohs the week after playing the Knights 3 times.

Each time Broncos have won. The last time was in 2012 when Yow Yeh suffered that career ending injury.

Broncos have also never lost a game on Anzac Day.

In 1993, they played Dragons and won 20-14.
In 1999, they played Cowboys and drew 20-20.
In 2003, they played Parramatta and won 20-14.
In 2004, they played Panthers and won 32-14.
In 2008, they played Rabbitohs and won 32-18.

 

[I bleed Maroon]

Broncos have played the Rabbitohs the week after playing the Knights 3 times.

Each time Broncos have won. The last time was in 2012 when Yow Yeh suffered that career ending injury.

Broncos have also never lost a game on Anzac Day.

In 1993, they played Dragons and won 20-14.
In 1999, they played Cowboys and drew 20-20.
In 2003, they played Parramatta and won 20-14.
In 2004, they played Panthers and won 32-14.
In 2008, they played Rabbitohs and won 32-18.

The spirit of ANZAC rides with us.

 

[broncos4life]

This Parker/prop debate is ridiculous

With the speed of the game increasing they want more mobility in the front row, that's why is there. He's playing the game the same way he has for years. It's as simple as that

 

[Rally Towel]

1.2 million over 3 years, 400k a season according to zerotackle.

Sounds about right.

Believe his defence and ruck control is good, though he really needs to commit to his runs. Wouldn't take that much for him to earn that pay cheque. No footwork required, just run hard, run straight. Maybe a coaching directive for all we know?

That's why I'd rather be start. He's resilient and not easily intimidated. Perfect for slowing the momentum of the opposition in the early going.

Hannant runs faster, harder, and offers more options with his passing. Makes him the better fit off the bench, once the opposition begin to tire out midway through a half.

 

[Super Freak]

Corey Parker stats. This is comparing his first 7 games from last year to his first 7 from this year.

2013 - 80 hit ups for 618 metres, 12 offloads. Averaged 7.7 metres per hit up and 1.7 offloads per game.
2014 - 87 hit ups for 734 metres, 22 offloads. Averaged 8.4 metres per hit up and 3.1 offloads per game.

If you were to include total metres and total runs.

2013 - 111 runs for 821 metres averaging 7.3 metres per run.
2014 - 113 runs for 921 metres averaging 8.6 metres per run.

Just thought I would post that for the people interested..

 

[winslow_wong]

No surprise Parker played his best game back at lock. He is just a lot more comfortable taking the third or fourth hit-up rather than the first and second. He needs the bigger forwards to make some room in the first or second carries of the set, which is when Parker has the space through retreating defenders to work his magic and pop and incredible offload. When Parker does that from Prop, its therefore earlier in the tackle count, so not as effective, as the opposition defensive line is set, which means there not enough room to capitalise off.

On Hoffman, there's one thing that I have noticed throughout the season, which may be the reason he doesn't pass to outside players. Since he is playing on the left side of the field, it requires him to pass from right-to-left, which for a lefty, is the 'weaker' side (Just like for a right-hander, passing left-to-right is the 'weaker' side). it is clear he is reluctant and hesitant to pass, which may be because he is not confident at all in his right-to-left pass. Evidence of this was when he made the break, and he had the option of passing to his left to Reed, or passing to his right to Hunt; he chose the latter option, as he felt more comfortable in throwing the pass from left-to-right.

he made a pass left to right to hunt on tackle 5 for a kick. the pass bulleted 2metres into the grass and luckily bounced another 8 meters to hunt. dude can't pass fullstop

 

[Unbreakable]

The only part of Parker's gaming I could possibly critique this season is his discipline, a couple of mistakes and a couple of silly penalties over the last few games, but that's it, apart from that he's one of the best players in the world.

 

[Foordy]

Corey Parker stats. This is comparing his first 7 games from last year to his first 7 from this year.

2013 - 80 hit ups for 618 metres, 12 offloads. Averaged 7.7 metres per hit up and 1.7 offloads per game.
2014 - 87 hit ups for 734 metres, 22 offloads. Averaged 8.4 metres per hit up and 3.1 offloads per game.

If you were to include total metres and total runs.

2013 - 111 runs for 821 metres averaging 7.3 metres per run.
2014 - 113 runs for 921 metres averaging 8.6 metres per run.

Just thought I would post that for the people interested..

I posted the same thing (added tackles as well) in the Knights post game thread. But people who are arguing that he is not as effective at prop as he is at lock are disregarding the stats because they don't backup their opinion.

Imo, nothing has changed with the way Parker is playing, except the number on his back, and the stats backup my opinion.

 

[Big Pete]

What do people make of the point that Vidot off-sets a lot of the forwards hit up numbers by usually being the first or second tackle when we're in the middle of a territorial arm wrestle?

 

[rnabokov]

All this side needs to do is stop the one-outs, always look to pass especially the forwards, pass and support, with Barba up behind the line left and right, and we will win most games.

v Knights was a great example that can still be built on quite a bit.

Oh, and maintain the rage in defence