Ashes Discussion

Everyone knows icc is a joke anyway. Puppet of bccI. They would have slapped him on the wrist so next time someone from subcontinent ball tampers they can do the same. I’m glad our players are held to a higher standard.
 
Unbreakable said:
Am I the only one who still feels that Handscomb got unlucky? I was a big fan of his when he entered the test team, just loved his technique.

You won't often see someone with a 39 average across their first 16 test matches shafted, never to return. In fact the only real series he failed in was the series in India, 2017.

Prior to the sandpaper incident, Handscomb had a test average of 47.4, across 22 innings.

Now he's not even being named in the Australia A squad, despite averaging 61.8 in Shield this season.
Click to expand...

He did come back a few times, got dropped during the 17 Ashes for Marsh. Went to South Africa played one Test and dropped, played two against India and dropped.

Whenever they've brought him back he hasn't made the most of it.

In that period of being in and out from Dec 2017 to Jan 2019- 0, 24, 34, 14, 7, 13, 37 and DNB.

If you get a second and third chance you need 100. I will say being picked for that Test in SA would have been horrible.
 
Fitzy said:
You do have a fair point but I think it’s a bit like Maddison they will never make the team cause people just view them as mediocre as a result of there final test days or for Maddison his entire test career but we will ignore that.
Click to expand...

His change from Blues to Victoria has been the making of him.

NSW-32.9 average in 62 matches. 6 100's.
Victoria-66.5 in 22 matches. 6 100's.

Really he should be spoken about now not in 2016.
 
Yeah I don't agree one bit that Steve shouldn't be allowed back as captain. Quite honestly if you don't have an issue with Steve being in the side or even as vice-captain than you can't complain when he is rightfully the best man for the job. If you seriously think that Pat Cummins would be a good captain your already buying this nice guys should be captains bullshit. Quite honestly Paine won us a series against England (technically was Smith but Paine can take the credit) and against New Zealand (Marnus, Warner and Cummins doings) so really don't rate his stint that highly, better than when he started yes but still. Paine was a gazillion times more qualified to be captain than Cummins currently is. Quite honestly if Cummins gets captain Australian cricket and its fans are in for a world of pain (No pun intended) over the next few years. It will be a tough situation to get out of because there are blokes like marnus and head who are a few years off being probably ideal candidates for that role whether that be because of performances or maturity. Cummins is a great bloke, player and character. However these are captaincy traits of other sports, not cricket. Cricket captains need a knowledge of the game like no other sport and quite frankly Pat is not that. He is a poster boy that relieves CA's tensions and I think it is a very wrong move.

As for those who think Smith doesn't deserve the chance to captain again are childish and need to get over themselves. Ball tampering has occurred in cricket from schoolboy, 6th grade all the way to Test cricket since christ was a baby. The ICC sanctions were 3 game suspensions each, however the Aussie media needed there pay day and did there team no favours, like they are currently doing and tried tricking the public that ball tampering doesn't occur every 2 seconds. CA were the only governing body who made players accountable and as a result have to suffer for it at an unprecedented rate. Faf Du Plessis (multiple times), Monty Panesar (all through his career), England players (multiple allegations: Trescothick, Broad, Anderson, Panesar), Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Pakistani cricket team in 2006 and Dinesh Chandimal most recently. All these players have been rumour to have, guilty of or admitted to ball tampering. Yes it was cowardly to bring Sandpaper onto the field, but the same intent has been showed by a number of other teams who have specificities on the types of mints they use for the shine, all the way through to sunscreen in pockets.

It's a joke the way other nations carry themselves in there actions towards Aussies when they are just as guilty and hypocritical of ball tampering. So yes quite honestly people like you who are quite ignorant to how common this are really have stitched up Steve Smith and co. from there legacy, roles and captaincy in the long term. Especially considering that the report to this day was that Steve wasn't the instigator or participator rather just spinelessly ignored it. Knowing you all you will use that as an example not to pick him, but he will have learnt from his mistakes and more than definitely has served his punishment. Thus, Steve Smith should be the Captain of Australian cricket once again.
 
Fitzy said:
Yeah I don't agree one bit that Steve shouldn't be allowed back as captain. Quite honestly if you don't have an issue with Steve being in the side or even as vice-captain than you can't complain when he is rightfully the best man for the job. If you seriously think that Pat Cummins would be a good captain your already buying this nice guys should be captains bullshit. Quite honestly Paine won us a series against England (technically was smith but Paine can take the credit) and against New Zealand (Marnus, warner and Cummins doings) so really don't rate his stint that highly, better than when he started yes but still. Paine was a gazillion times more qualified to be captain than Cummins currently is. Quite honestly if Cummins gets captain Australian cricket and its fans are in for a world of pain (No pun intended) over the next few years. It will be a tough situation to get out of because there are blokes like marnus and head who are a few years off being probably ideal candidates for that role whether that be because of performances or maturity. Cummins is a great bloke, player and character. However these are captaincy traits of other sports, not cricket. Cricket captains need a knowledge of the game like no other sport and quite frankly Pat is not that. He is a poster boy that relieves CA's tensions and I think it is a very wrong move. As for those who think Smith doesn't deserve the chance to captain again are childish and need to get over themselves. Ball tampering has occurred in cricket from schoolboy, 6th grade all the way to Test cricket since christ was a baby. The ICC sanctions were 3 game suspensions each, however the Aussie media needed there pay day and did there team no favours, like they are currently doing and tried tricking the public that ball tampering doesn't occur every 2 seconds. CA were the only governing body who made players accountable and as a result have to suffer for it at an unprecedented rate. Faf Du Plessis (multiple times), Monty Panesar (all through his career), England players (multiple allegations Trescothick, Broad, Anderson, Panesar), Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Pakistani cricket team in 2006, Dinesh Chandimal most recently. All these players have been rumour to have, guilty of or admitted to ball tampering. Yes it was cowardly to bring Sandpaper onto the field, but the same intent has been showed by a number of other teams who have specificities on the types of mints they use for the shine, all the way through to sunscreen in pockets. It's a joke the way other nations carry themselves in there actions towards Aussies when they are just as guilty and hypocritical of ball tampering. So yes quite honestly people like you who are quite ignorant to how common this are really have stitched up Steve Smith and co. from there legacy, roles and captaincy in the long term. Especially considering that the report to this day was that Steve wasn't the instigator or participator rather just spinelessly ignored it. Knowing you all you will use that as an example not to pick him, but he will have learnt from his mistakes and more than definitely has served his punishment. Thus, Steve Smith should be the Captain of Australian cricket once again.
Click to expand...
Reckon you could chop this into paragraphs and i’ll give it a proper read.
 
Fitzy said:
Yeah I don't agree one bit that Steve shouldn't be allowed back as captain. Quite honestly if you don't have an issue with Steve being in the side or even as vice-captain than you can't complain when he is rightfully the best man for the job. If you seriously think that Pat Cummins would be a good captain your already buying this nice guys should be captains bullshit. Quite honestly Paine won us a series against England (technically was Smith but Paine can take the credit) and against New Zealand (Marnus, Warner and Cummins doings) so really don't rate his stint that highly, better than when he started yes but still. Paine was a gazillion times more qualified to be captain than Cummins currently is. Quite honestly if Cummins gets captain Australian cricket and its fans are in for a world of pain (No pun intended) over the next few years. It will be a tough situation to get out of because there are blokes like marnus and head who are a few years off being probably ideal candidates for that role whether that be because of performances or maturity. Cummins is a great bloke, player and character. However these are captaincy traits of other sports, not cricket. Cricket captains need a knowledge of the game like no other sport and quite frankly Pat is not that. He is a poster boy that relieves CA's tensions and I think it is a very wrong move.

As for those who think Smith doesn't deserve the chance to captain again are childish and need to get over themselves. Ball tampering has occurred in cricket from schoolboy, 6th grade all the way to Test cricket since christ was a baby. The ICC sanctions were 3 game suspensions each, however the Aussie media needed there pay day and did there team no favours, like they are currently doing and tried tricking the public that ball tampering doesn't occur every 2 seconds. CA were the only governing body who made players accountable and as a result have to suffer for it at an unprecedented rate. Faf Du Plessis (multiple times), Monty Panesar (all through his career), England players (multiple allegations: Trescothick, Broad, Anderson, Panesar), Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Pakistani cricket team in 2006, Dinesh Chandimal most recently. All these players have been rumour to have, guilty of or admitted to ball tampering. Yes it was cowardly to bring Sandpaper onto the field, but the same intent has been showed by a number of other teams who have specificities on the types of mints they use for the shine, all the way through to sunscreen in pockets.

It's a joke the way other nations carry themselves in there actions towards Aussies when they are just as guilty and hypocritical of ball tampering. So yes quite honestly people like you who are quite ignorant to how common this are really have stitched up Steve Smith and co. from there legacy, roles and captaincy in the long term. Especially considering that the report to this day was that Steve wasn't the instigator or participator rather just spinelessly ignored it. Knowing you all you will use that as an example not to pick him, but he will have learnt from his mistakes and more than definitely has served his punishment. Thus, Steve Smith should be the Captain of Australian cricket once again.
Click to expand...
Haha I'm ignorant.(why don't I feel the bliss?)
Everyone knows there has been cheating going on in cricket for ages that doesn't excuse us from cheating.
He was just spineless (if you believe that maybe it is you who is the ignorant one)
Anyway why would you want a spineless captain?
 
Why do people think cheating is ok if other team do it?
Are you closet Storm/Shark supporters?

That logic is woefully flawed!
 
Blindside Bronco said:
Haha I'm ignorant.(why don't I feel the bliss?)
Everyone knows there has been cheating going on in cricket for ages that doesn't excuse us from cheating.
He was just spineless (if you believe that maybe it is you who is the ignorant one)
Anyway why would you want a spineless captain?
Click to expand...
Cause I couldn’t give a shit what his characteristics are he could be Adolf Hitler for all I care. He is a tactical fucken genius who can set a field unlike PAT CUMMINS who will spend more time sucking corporates dicks then playing cricket. Someone who has never held a permanent captaining position or even a temporary position should ever be in the conversation to captain this country.
 
Blindside Bronco said:
Why do people think cheating is ok if other team do it?
Are you closet Storm/Shark supporters?

That logic is woefully flawed!
Click to expand...
NOBODY HAS ONCE EXCUSED THE BEHAVIOUR. People have forgiven and stated they were significantly hard done by.
 
Fitzy said:
Yeah I don't agree one bit that Steve shouldn't be allowed back as captain. Quite honestly if you don't have an issue with Steve being in the side or even as vice-captain than you can't complain when he is rightfully the best man for the job. If you seriously think that Pat Cummins would be a good captain your already buying this nice guys should be captains bullshit. Quite honestly Paine won us a series against England (technically was Smith but Paine can take the credit) and against New Zealand (Marnus, Warner and Cummins doings) so really don't rate his stint that highly, better than when he started yes but still. Paine was a gazillion times more qualified to be captain than Cummins currently is. Quite honestly if Cummins gets captain Australian cricket and its fans are in for a world of pain (No pun intended) over the next few years. It will be a tough situation to get out of because there are blokes like marnus and head who are a few years off being probably ideal candidates for that role whether that be because of performances or maturity. Cummins is a great bloke, player and character. However these are captaincy traits of other sports, not cricket. Cricket captains need a knowledge of the game like no other sport and quite frankly Pat is not that. He is a poster boy that relieves CA's tensions and I think it is a very wrong move.

As for those who think Smith doesn't deserve the chance to captain again are childish and need to get over themselves. Ball tampering has occurred in cricket from schoolboy, 6th grade all the way to Test cricket since christ was a baby. The ICC sanctions were 3 game suspensions each, however the Aussie media needed there pay day and did there team no favours, like they are currently doing and tried tricking the public that ball tampering doesn't occur every 2 seconds. CA were the only governing body who made players accountable and as a result have to suffer for it at an unprecedented rate. Faf Du Plessis (multiple times), Monty Panesar (all through his career), England players (multiple allegations: Trescothick, Broad, Anderson, Panesar), Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Pakistani cricket team in 2006 and Dinesh Chandimal most recently. All these players have been rumour to have, guilty of or admitted to ball tampering. Yes it was cowardly to bring Sandpaper onto the field, but the same intent has been showed by a number of other teams who have specificities on the types of mints they use for the shine, all the way through to sunscreen in pockets.

It's a joke the way other nations carry themselves in there actions towards Aussies when they are just as guilty and hypocritical of ball tampering. So yes quite honestly people like you who are quite ignorant to how common this are really have stitched up Steve Smith and co. from there legacy, roles and captaincy in the long term. Especially considering that the report to this day was that Steve wasn't the instigator or participator rather just spinelessly ignored it. Knowing you all you will use that as an example not to pick him, but he will have learnt from his mistakes and more than definitely has served his punishment. Thus, Steve Smith should be the Captain of Australian cricket once again.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree with your comments on Cummins. Fantastic player, probably my favourite of the current test team. But being an automatic selection and a nice guy with a squeaky clean image do not make a test captain. You're the one calling all the shots. It's a far more tactical role than any other sport.

I think there are very good reasons for the captain to not be a frontline bowler as well.

Whatever you think of Smith (I personally think he is a reasonable but not brilliant tactician and captain), he is clearly far and away more qualified for the (c) and the most likely to lead the team to an Ashes win.
 
Fitzy said:
Cause I couldn’t give a shit what his characteristics are he could be Adolf Hitler for all I care. He is a tactical fucken genius who can set a field unlike PAT CUMMINS who will spend more time sucking corporates dicks then playing cricket. Someone who has never held a permanent captaining position or even a temporary position should ever be in the conversation to captain this country.
Click to expand...
HaHa you're a Nutterfly.
No he isn't a tactical genius. Better than Paine and Finch but that a mighty low bar.
I don't remember stating Cummins is the best choice for captain just that Smith had his chance and let Australia down.
 
If Cummins isn't deemed suitable for captaining then they made a bad call making him VC. He shouldn't be the vice captain.

You have to pick your vice with the view that he could be captain at one stage- short term or long term.

I don't buy this fast bowlers can't be captain thing. Planning is nearly all done before a Test, in fact Test matches are planned to the millisecond, and as vice captain Cummins would be part of that too and know what the plan is and why.

If he's fielding away from the action, then the new VC can be someone close who can be around the action.

I think it'd be great for Smith to be vice captain, get back in the leadership role, help Cummins.

Let's not forget Smith is a guy that cracked Greg Chappell like under leadership and was stressed and exhausted. the deputy role would be a good starting point to see how he goes again.

Going from one scandalised captain to the scandalised captain from before doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
Fitzy said:
NOBODY HAS ONCE EXCUSED THE BEHAVIOUR. People have forgiven and stated they were significantly hard done by.
Click to expand...
Yes they have!!!
I'm not just talking about on this forum but there been comments and list about other cheating teams or people, being used to excuse behaviour, with the reasoning others do so we can to.
 
Blindside Bronco said:
Yes they have!!!
I'm not just talking about on this forum but there been comments and list about other cheating teams or people, being used to excuse behaviour, with the reasoning others do so we can to.
Click to expand...
No it’s been used to show the double standards that occur and your lack of judgement to others characters with the same cheating issues and there vastly different positions and situations as opposed to our players who suffered significantly mentally, judicially (suspension) and financially from there actions. On top of this they have been shamed and embarrassed for years in the most public and ruthless way possible. What they did was 100% wrong you and me can both agree with that. However they have suffered 700% more pain than other culprits have and still have to face further consequences today. I admire those 3 quite honestly for accepting there mistakes and taking it on the chin in a way that very few could. For all 3 of them to still stand here today playing cricket after all there struggles is quite impressive especially without a word of complaint. In my honest opinion Smith is the most qualified player for the job and we are in a position where his previous indiscretions should not stop him from captaining this side even if it is just for this series until they can forgive there shit out.
 
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