CRICKET Australia v West Indies

[Sproj]

Neither has Renshaw. It's a tragedy how Pucovski lost his way.

Agreed to both points. It highlights a problem with batsmen at present, not many are all that good. The only ones outside the test team averaging 40 are Green, Hardie, Pucovski and Davies, which is from a small sample size. Oh and there is one more...you'll never guess it...Matthew Wade.

That is it, there is no one else aside from the test guys averaging over 40. The closest are Bancroft, Harris and Renshaw.

 

[McHunt]

Agreed to both points. It highlights a problem with batsmen at present, not many are all that good. The only ones outside the test team averaging 40 are Green, Hardie, Pucovski and Davies, which is from a small sample size. Oh and there is one more...you'll never guess it...Matthew Wade.

That is it, there is no one else aside from the test guys averaging over 40. The closest are Bancroft, Harris and Renshaw.

Still, maybe selectors can see something we can't. Averaging 50+ in a 6 match competition on Australian wickets, against Australian bowlers - that now takes second pegging to a bloated interminable T20 league - might not be the benchmark we think it is. Maybe they look at technique against a variety of conditions. Or something. Maybe Renshaw's County experience counted.

 

[1910]

Yep it would seem like Renshaw might be next in line based on the squad announcement today... well at least he better be ahead of Marcus fucking Harris anyway!!

I think once they went with Smith to open then Renshaw is the best #13. He averages more at 5 than opening.

Averages 52 in 12 games and three 100's for Queensland at 5. The other two aren't much good as a 13.

He's more versatile.

 

[Mister Wright]

Agreed to both points. It highlights a problem with batsmen at present, not many are all that good. The only ones outside the test team averaging 40 are Green, Hardie, Pucovski and Davies, which is from a small sample size. Oh and there is one more...you'll never guess it...Matthew Wade.

That is it, there is no one else aside from the test guys averaging over 40. The closest are Bancroft, Harris and Renshaw.

Labuschagne was selected for Australia with a FC average of mid-low 30s. Domestic averages usually indicate ability, but occasionally there is an odd one out.

 

[1910]

Labuschagne was selected for Australia with a FC average of mid-low 30s. Domestic averages usually indicate ability, but occasionally there is an odd one out.

That is one of the great mysteries of cricket for me but it always interests me. When you speak to selectors or players they can't even articulate why- they just knew.

Steve Waugh- 11 matches for NSW-605 runs
Langer-14 matches for WA-1121 runs
Healy- 8 matches for Qld-19 catches
Warne- 7 matches for Victoria- 26 wickets
McGrath- 8 matches for NSW- 32 wickets

Really none of those players should have made their Test debut.

Cricket is unique too, if I said I was going to pick an NRL winger that had never scored a try in his eight-game career, but he'd score three on debut in Origin you'd be laughed at. Say it in cricket and people think how wise.

 

[Sproj]

Labuschagne was selected for Australia with a FC average of mid-low 30s. Domestic averages usually indicate ability, but occasionally there is an odd one out.

Yep and cricket has a number of these kinds of stories, sometimes you have to take a punt. The funny thing is, there have been many players who are the other way too, high FC averages but can't take it to the next level. Jacques Rudolph immediately comes to mind. Marcus Harris has a decent FC average but one look at him tells he should not be a test player. He has flaws everywhere in his technique, can't score on any actual cricket ground and can't field.

To me, McSweeney has whatever 'it' is even though his record doesn't back it up.. I also think Davies screams long term counter punching 5 or 6 too.

 

[Bongo]

Yep and cricket has a number of these kinds of stories, sometimes you have to take a punt. The funny thing is, there have been many players who are the other way too, high FC averages but can't take it to the next level. Jacques Rudolph immediately comes to mind. Marcus Harris has a decent FC average but one look at him tells he should not be a test player. He has flaws everywhere in his technique, can't score on any actual cricket ground and can't field.

To me, McSweeney has whatever 'it' is even though his record doesn't back it up.. I also think Davies screams long term counter punching 5 or 6 too.

Not too different from Qld/NSW cup and First Grade.

 

[Fitzy]

Yep and cricket has a number of these kinds of stories, sometimes you have to take a punt. The funny thing is, there have been many players who are the other way too, high FC averages but can't take it to the next level. Jacques Rudolph immediately comes to mind. Marcus Harris has a decent FC average but one look at him tells he should not be a test player. He has flaws everywhere in his technique, can't score on any actual cricket ground and can't field.

To me, McSweeney has whatever 'it' is even though his record doesn't back it up.. I also think Davies screams long term counter punching 5 or 6 too.

McSweeney’s record isn’t that bad. You got to remember he barely played 2 straight games for his first about 15 FC matches. Hard to perform to a high standard without getting given much of a consistent go at such a young age.

34 average at 24 with 4 hundreds, 7 50’s and he also has a 99* from selfless batting and a 90 in there as well. That could very easily be 6/5 and all of a sudden a 24 year old with a 34 FC average, 50 average this season and an awesome strike rate at turning 50’s into hundreds in 26 games. That would stand out a bit more and all it would have taken was 11 more runs.

This young in a players career unless it’s particularly shit or better than 40 a career average means jack shit. Half his short shield career so far has been just trying to figure it out.

As much as I think only him, Renshaw and Hardie are realistically in a position to be at the quality to be picked for tests right now I still think he probably needs to finish off the shield season and next years by backing it up the way he has started it before he is realistically in the conversation.

But yes everything about him screams test player. Beautiful technique and classyshot maker. One of the best fielders you will come across as well.

 

[Fitzy]

Not too different from Qld/NSW cup and First Grade.

No it’s very different.

 

[1910]

McSweeney’s record isn’t that bad. You got to remember he barely played 2 straight games for his first about 15 FC matches. Hard to perform to a high standard without getting given much of a consistent go at such a young age.

34 average at 24 with 4 hundreds, 7 50’s and he also has a 99* from selfless batting and a 90 in there as well. That could very easily be 6/5 and all of a sudden a 24 year old with a 34 FC average, 50 average this season and an awesome strike rate at turning 50’s into hundreds in 26 games. That would stand out a bit more and all it would have taken was 11 more runs.

This young in a players career unless it’s particularly shit or better than 40 a career average means jack shit. Half his short shield career so far has been just trying to figure it out.

As much as I think only him, Renshaw and Hardie are realistically in a position to be at the quality to be picked for tests right now I still think he probably needs to finish off the shield season and next years by backing it up the way he has started it before he is realistically in the conversation.

But yes everything about him screams test player. Beautiful technique and classyshot maker. One of the best fielders you will come across as well.

Isn't four 100's since your debut in 2018 part of the problem? Those four have been since December 22 as well so four years with nothing.

Averaging 14 for the Bulls and having to move to SA and averaging 38 there on the best batting pitch in the country. Shows a problem.

Sure, he's improved, showing leadership sure, but where is the 1200 run seasons?

He's had an average/good 18 months, that's it. Four 100's since 22. and three 50's for Australia A.

Look at the top run scorers from 1993.

Bevan 11 matches-1240- 23 years old
Langer 10 matches-1137-23 years old
Hayden 6 matches-1136-22 years old
Lehmann 10 matches-1065 23 years old
Hills 11 matches-1015-23 years old
Blewett 10 matches- 940 runs 22 years old
Hodge 10 matches 903 runs 18 years old
Ponting 11 matches 896 runs 18 years old
Jones 6 matches 846 runs 32 years old
Barsby 10 matches 786 runs 29 years old

One player over 30, the rest all young and making bulk runs. This season only two are under 30 in the top 10 and they're making less than half the runs. Everyone falls over themselves when someone makes 340 runs in a season and averages 33.

 

[1910]

PS- Hayden was seven 100's in those six games. Two 100's in a game twice.

125, 1, 23, 96no, 9, 173no, 165, 116, 26, 121no, 126, 155.

 

[Sproj]

Interestingly, Daryl Mitchell for NZ came into their test side averaging about 36-37 with the bat. He now has 20 tests and is averaging 53 (almost 54) at test level.

 

[McHunt]

Interestingly, Daryl Mitchell for NZ came into their test side averaging about 36-37 with the bat. He now has 20 tests and is averaging 53 (almost 54) at test level.

He hasn't been so flash in the Subcontinent

 

[Sproj]

He hasn't been so flash in the Subcontinent

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Yeah that is interesting. That said, Warner wasn't great many places other than Aus I think and he still retires as one of the greats.

 

[McHunt]

Yeah that is interesting. That said, Warner wasn't great many places other than Aus I think and he still retires as one of the greats.

Warner's been fabulous in the IPL, something most Australians never saw. Smith, on the other hand, a little underwhelming.

 

[Sproj]

Warner's been fabulous in the IPL, something most Australians never saw. Smith, on the other hand, a little underwhelming.

What does this have to do with test cricket?

 

[McHunt]

What does this have to do with test cricket?

The IPL is where the money is, and pretty much the Who's Who of cricket. That used to be Test cricket. At any rate, it's in the Subcontinent, not at home, and Warner has ruled that roost for many years. He's no home ground bully. I think joining the dots between IPL performance and Test selection for touring the Subcontinent is still a work in progress. I don't think it will do Green any harm to sharpen his tools there this season.

 

[Fitzy]

Isn't four 100's since your debut in 2018 part of the problem? Those four have been since December 22 as well so four years with nothing.

Averaging 14 for the Bulls and having to move to SA and averaging 38 there on the best batting pitch in the country. Shows a problem.

Sure, he's improved, showing leadership sure, but where is the 1200 run seasons?

He's had an average/good 18 months, that's it. Four 100's since 22. and three 50's for Australia A.

Look at the top run scorers from 1993.

Bevan 11 matches-1240- 23 years old
Langer 10 matches-1137-23 years old
Hayden 6 matches-1136-22 years old
Lehmann 10 matches-1065 23 years old
Hills 11 matches-1015-23 years old
Blewett 10 matches- 940 runs 22 years old
Hodge 10 matches 903 runs 18 years old
Ponting 11 matches 896 runs 18 years old
Jones 6 matches 846 runs 32 years old
Barsby 10 matches 786 runs 29 years old

One player over 30, the rest all young and making bulk runs. This season only two are under 30 in the top 10 and they're making less than half the runs. Everyone falls over themselves when someone makes 340 runs in a season and averages 33.

Notice how you had to go to 1993 to do that. Show me anyone at shield level that has an average greater than 40 (over a big enough period to be relevant) that isn’t in the test team. Green, Pucovski and Hardie I think are the only ones. Says it all really. It’s not the same landscape where batters were chucking out 40+ averages non stop and not getting a run. That stat is more reflective in our bowlers where we have an endless crop of great bowlers still.

I can accept your stats for how you see it, pitiful. But they aren’t pitiful on Nathans behalf they are pitiful for the state of shield cricket. 1993 respectfully is not relevant anymore. I get the point and it’s a great insight but not relevant to Nathan or now. Neither the landscape of shield cricket or test cricket is the same.

Firstly what selector on this planet is looking at what he did back at Qld and making a decision around that with very few consistent opportunities at like the age of 20 to 22. Give the bloke a break that’s not a pre-requisite for the test side. They can’t all be Cameron Green with a high average and picked by 22. He has got his average up to 34 now which isn’t that shy of some of the most successful players of the past 10 years that are still playing (which is pitiful for shield and Australia) but I don’t get the need to hate on this bloke who has scored massive runs at every level below state (Juniors, 1st grade, 2nd XI) and now it’s clicking at state level. The very fact he has played 26 games of shield cricket at 24 is usually a pretty good indication of your ability these days. Not to many batters younger than 25 getting a consistent run let alone becoming a top batsman in the comp. He took long enough to become established that his true ability is being brought down by his early career efforts where he struggled to find his feet quickly.

I can’t see how a 24 year old averaging 50 halfway through his second season of playing consistently at shield level is vice-captain of SA (will be captain soon in my eyes) has captained Aus A and is second highest run scorer in shield this season not to mention excellent fielder and handy spin bowler isn’t a top level talent because of what he did when he was 20/21. He has got it all and when he has proven that he can dominate every level before this when he finds himself in the top run scorers early in his career I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say this dude is going to be a prolific scorer in Sheffield shield and if he continues it on for a bit longer he will be in the Test side. Through no fault of his own he is already in relative contention. I can’t see a single player other than Hardie and Renshaw getting picked before him. Maybe they would reshuffle the order and chuck Bancroft or Harris in before him as well but that’s about it. 34 is a fair reflection of his career so far. 26 games in with a 34 average not undenying selection stuff but when you have consistently improved at state level to a season average of 50 over midway through and having been a mass run-scorer at lower levels you most certainly are a promising prospect whose stats aren’t as bad as they would otherwise suggest. Like I said 11 more runs in 2 innings and he would be looked upon a lot more favourably.

Under 25 these days is the new youngster category and he is coming up to 25. No more excuses from here on and from now everything he does at a high level should be what counts and looked upon favourably. He hasn’t put to many foot’s wrong in the last 18 months just has to score more big scores and more consistently. He has that aura about him and I reckon it won’t be long and it will be hard to deny him a spot in the team. If he was just averaging 34 this season fine I’d get the argument but he has improved heaps from even 18 months ago let alone when he debuted.

He’s a good egg what happened in 93’ and what happened back at QLD are irrelevant. If he drops off fair enough on the criticism but he hasn’t dropped off yet he has continually improved. He will play test cricket and relatively soon in my opinion.