Dave Donaghy interview

[WASSHHH]

Pretty big call about a team that just equaled the all time most wins in a row, won the minor prem and bowed out in a fairly close game a week before the GF against the team that they should’ve only played in the GF.

I think Penrith, Eels, Rabbitohs, Manly (basically the entire top 8 except the roosters) are at a far greater risk of falling off than the Storm are.

The big challenge will be how the club continues post Bellamy.

I’ve been saying it every year since Cronk left (so I’ve been wrong every year), but I do feel they are far more vulnerable now.

They didn’t look good at all against Penrith. Sure it was close, but Penrith are struggling to score points at the moment (only 8 (I think) on the Eels the week before).

Finucane is the last remaining on-field driving force of the culture that has been built over the last 10-15 years. A massive leadership void has been left with him moving on.

The leaders they have left have a big job ahead to keep the juggernaut on the tracks and if things start to go wrong, I just don’t think they’re capable.

 

[Galah]

I’ve been saying it every year since Cronk left (so I’ve been wrong every year), but I do feel they are far more vulnerable now.

They didn’t look good at all against Penrith. Sure it was close, but Penrith are struggling to score points at the moment (only 8 (I think) on the Eels the week before).

Finucane is the last remaining on-field driving force of the culture that has been built over the last 10-15 years. A massive leadership void has been left with him moving on.

The leaders they have left have a big job ahead to keep the juggernaut on the tracks and if things start to go wrong, I just don’t think they’re capable.

Not to mention Bellamys premierships won without smith is ZERO! I took great enjoyment in writing that.

 

[Evander]

Coates isn't coming back. Or at least not as an elite winger. Here's why:

1. We don't buy elite wingers. We promote kids to that position, or we pick up bargains who are out of favour or in their twilight years. Like Mead and Pereira. Or we shift a player who's brimming with talent but doesn't click into the backline or fullback as we'd hoped, like maybe Herbie, Jamayne, Selwyn, Tesi etc. We produce tons of these players. We already have a logjam on the wings.

If we have money to spend, we don't spend it on the wing.

2. Coates is already an elite winger. But he has two flaws that rule him out as being the best winger in the league: he habitually gets found out in defence by being out of position; and he fumbles high balls. The first might be a bad habit he picked up at the Broncos that Bellamy will stamp out. I reckon you can pencil that in as done. The second is one Kevvie was starting to get across by having him leap and tap back. If he can't sort out his hands, he's out the door. But it's very likely those won't be such issues in two years. If that's the case, he should command big money. We're not paying him that.

3. So if Coates finds himself on the market, it'll either be because Melbourne can't afford to keep him or he's been earmarked as a lemon, like Croft. We won't be paying top dollar for him, and we should have the sense not to take another of their lemons.

I believe the CEO of the broncos over you sorry mate, if he said he is leaving the door open for Xavier to come back after developing with Bellamy. Than I believe him.

 

[john1420]

Coates isn't coming back. Or at least not as an elite winger. Here's why:

1. We don't buy elite wingers. We promote kids to that position, or we pick up bargains who are out of favour or in their twilight years. Like Mead and Pereira. Or we shift a player who's brimming with talent but doesn't click into the backline or fullback as we'd hoped, like maybe Herbie, Jamayne, Selwyn, Tesi etc. We produce tons of these players. We already have a logjam on the wings.

If we have money to spend, we don't spend it on the wing.

2. Coates is already an elite winger. But he has two flaws that rule him out as being the best winger in the league: he habitually gets found out in defence by being out of position; and he fumbles high balls. The first might be a bad habit he picked up at the Broncos that Bellamy will stamp out. I reckon you can pencil that in as done. The second is one Kevvie was starting to get across by having him leap and tap back. If he can't sort out his hands, he's out the door. But it's very likely those won't be such issues in two years. If that's the case, he should command big money. We're not paying him that.

3. So if Coates finds himself on the market, it'll either be because Melbourne can't afford to keep him or he's been earmarked as a lemon, like Croft. We won't be paying top dollar for him, and we should have the sense not to take another of their lemons.

I like lot of what you say here, however, with respect to this:

"Coates is already an elite winger. But he has two flaws that rule him out as being the best winger in the league: he habitually gets found out in defence by being out of position; and he fumbles high balls."

I would say that poor defence and weak under the high ball absolutely rules you out from being elite. Elite is the top echelon. And top echelon players do not have 2 serious flaws, they have none. They are allowed to make a mistake here and there of course, but not have 2 gaping holes in their game.

 

[McHunt]

I believe the CEO of the broncos over you sorry mate, if he said he is leaving the door open for Xavier to come back after developing with Bellamy. Than I believe him.

Proforma good wishes, though undoubtedly sincere. Xavier is popular within the group. I'm sure he would be welcomed back. I just can't see the Broncos getting into a bidding war over him. Maybe he'll get homesick, come back for a shave and prove me wrong. Guess it's not impossible.

I like lot of what you say here, however, with respect to this:

"Coates is already an elite winger. But he has two flaws that rule him out as being the best winger in the league: he habitually gets found out in defence by being out of position; and he fumbles high balls."

I would say that poor defence and weak under the high ball absolutely rules you out from being elite. Elite is the top echelon. And top echelon players do not have 2 serious flaws, they have none. They are allowed to make a mistake here and there of course, but not have 2 gaping holes in their game.

5 Origin starts. Headhunted by Melbourne to replace Addo Carr. Those two facts alone put him in an elite group. I'll be surprised if he doesn't work out for Melbourne, even though we were all calling for him to be dropped after the Origin series.

 

[theshed]

Proforma good wishes, though undoubtedly sincere. Xavier is popular within the group. I'm sure he would be welcomed back. I just can't see the Broncos getting into a bidding war over him. Maybe he'll get homesick, come back for a shave and prove me wrong. Guess it's not impossible.


5 Origin starts. Headhunted by Melbourne to replace Addo Carr. Those two facts alone put him in an elite group. I'll be surprised if he doesn't work out for Melbourne, even though we were all calling for him to be dropped after the Origin series.

We were rightfully calling for him to be dropped. He’s under ripe. He’ll no doubt come good but he wasn’t there yet this season.

 

[McHunt]

We were rightfully calling for him to be dropped. He’s under ripe. He’ll no doubt come good but he wasn’t there yet this season.

Could just make him a centre then almost none of these flaws will matter, though others may likely appear.

Either way, I agree with @McHunt that he’s not coming back. He’s an emotional kid and leaving has obviously torn him but once he settles into Melbourne I don’t think he’ll look back. It’s actually very rare - and yes, I’m aware Hodges did it

Not the worst idea - moving him inside - but there's generally a reason why speedy players wind up on the wings. And it's almost always their lack of passing game and/or their limited defence. I've never seen Xavier's passing game so I reckon there's another flaw that's been swept under the carpet. Wingers tend to get moved to the back or inside when the coach thinks their skills are being wasted. It's a promotion. That's what we saw with Herbie, Selwyn and Jamayne. But not with Xavier.

Fucked if I know what our backline is going to look like next season. I can come up with a list of probables, but not one of them owns their spot. Given we finished the season on a convincing win, I would expect Kotoni to share the centres with Herbie, Selwyn to take Xavier's wing, Albert to stay at 6 and Tyson to come off the bench. But really you could shuffle them ten different ways and not find one that's completely convincing.

I would like to see Jamayne back in the mix, but at who's expense?

 

[Sproj]

It is interesting to think about for Melbourne, which leaders do they have left?

They’ve lost all of Smith, Cronk, Slater, Finucane, Hynes and Hoffman. Who are their on field generals now? South’s are looking at having the same problem with losing Reynolds, Benji and Gagai. They still have Cook and Murray though so that helps but Melbourne, man I’m not sure.

They won’t fall off a cliff but I do suspect a slow downward spiral might have started.

 

[McHunt]

It is interesting to think about for Melbourne, which leaders do they have left?

Am I a joke to you?

 

[Sproj]

Am I a joke to you?

I love the guy and am sad he left but he isn’t a leader, not yet anyway.

 

[BroncsFan]

It is interesting to think about for Melbourne, which leaders do they have left?

They’ve lost all of Smith, Cronk, Slater, Finucane, Hynes and Hoffman. Who are their on field generals now? South’s are looking at having the same problem with losing Reynolds, Benji and Gagai. They still have Cook and Murray though so that helps but Melbourne, man I’m not sure.

They won’t fall off a cliff but I do suspect a slow downward spiral might have started.

They'll be relying on Jbrom and Kbrom (think Kenny is a captain isn't he??).

Outside of that they'll be looking to Munster and eventually Harry, Welch and Hughes.

Paps I'm not sure about... nothing about that haircut spells leadership

 

[Sproj]

They'll be relying on Jbrom and Kbrom (think Kenny is a captain isn't he??).

Outside of that they'll be looking to Munster and eventually Harry, Welch and Hughes.

Paps I'm not sure about... nothing about that haircut spells leadership

Ahh yes Welch, forgot him but hopefully he ends up with us.

 

[theshed]

It is interesting to think about for Melbourne, which leaders do they have left?

They’ve lost all of Smith, Cronk, Slater, Finucane, Hynes and Hoffman. Who are their on field generals now? South’s are looking at having the same problem with losing Reynolds, Benji and Gagai. They still have Cook and Murray though so that helps but Melbourne, man I’m not sure.

They won’t fall off a cliff but I do suspect a slow downward spiral might have started.

J Brom, K Brom, Welch, Kafusi, Munster.Grant and Paps have leadership qualities.

Huge wealth of experience remaining. I wouldn’t count Hynes as a leader either.

 

[Sproj]

J Brom, K Brom, Welch, Kafusi, Munster.Grant and Paps have leadership qualities.

Huge wealth of experience remaining. I wouldn’t count Hynes as a leader either.

I don’t see Munster as a leader and think he could be detrimental to a club’s culture if left unchecked. Grant and Paps are good players but don’t scream leadership, not yet anyway. Kaufusi doesn’t strike as a leader either. J Brom seems easily influenced.

I guess my meaning is more that being a good player doesn’t necessarily equal being a good leader / example.

 

[theshed]

I don’t see Munster as a leader and think he could be detrimental to a club’s culture if left unchecked. Grant and Paps are good players but don’t scream leadership, not yet anyway. Kaufusi doesn’t strike as a leader either. J Brom seems easily influenced.

I guess my meaning is more that being a good player doesn’t necessarily equal being a good leader / example.

All are Origin and/or International Rep, multiple GF and wins, hundreds of first grade games. We’ve currently got none of those.

 

[Sproj]

All are Origin and/or International Rep, multiple GF and wins, hundreds of first grade games. We’ve currently got none of those.

Not comparing to us, I’m simply saying they are not necessarily leaders.

Dugan, Mitchell, Ferguson, Addo-Carr, etc all have similar records, I don’t see any of them as leaders.

 

[Lockysillegitimatechild]

All are Origin and/or International Rep, multiple GF and wins, hundreds of first grade games. We’ve currently got none of those.

Boyd had all of those, Glenn had most. Leaders can win zero premierships and followers can win multiple premierships. J Bromwich, and definetly Welch, will lead but the results this year have certainly put a false sense of security on them I believe. The problem for Melbourne is the lack of leader in the spine. I think they were banking on Munster becoming one, he certainly hasn't. Paps is not a leader, b Smith is inspirational sometimes and lead with actions but that won't count for shit given the storm/bellamy have built their culture on 1%s 100% of the time on and off the field. Grant could be in a few years but playing from the bench undermines that quite considerably.

I said it at the start of the year and I still believe it despite the results this year. C Smith will hurt them. It's like what happened to us. When you're lucky enough to have such high quality (cronk and Slater as well in this) and you expect everyone to uphold that standard, eventually something cracks. It won't be next year either I think, but it will happen. It's like how Ricky Stuart has trouble coaching halves, he expects them to be like him, major reason why bellamy failed miserably with origin too, he expected them to be like the storm (Smith, slater) level of commitment and execution to what he wanted.

 

[lynx000]

Proforma good wishes, though undoubtedly sincere. Xavier is popular within the group. I'm sure he would be welcomed back. I just can't see the Broncos getting into a bidding war over him. Maybe he'll get homesick, come back for a shave and prove me wrong. Guess it's not impossible.


5 Origin starts. Headhunted by Melbourne to replace Addo Carr. Those two facts alone put him in an elite group. I'll be surprised if he doesn't work out for Melbourne, even though we were all calling for him to be dropped after the Origin series.

I think this is the most likely scenario. He seems like a kid that may struggle to settle in Melbourne, time will tell.