FOOTBALL English Premier League 23/24 Discussion

[The True King]

It was related to United. The shit I've seen today is ridiculous. Fine margins are costing us atm, along with injuries which is destroying the midfield balance and makeup of the team. Liverpool struggled with injuries for large parts of last season too, the end of season run of results has people forgetting that.

Something goes wrong, teams heads drop and they go to shit. At Arsenal its the offside goal, today is was the Brighton goal after a very good opening 20. They drag themselves back in, and then it happens again after the disallowed Hojlund goal.

First 20 mins today, yes that's better than at any period under Ole. As I've said before, Ole's tenure was an easier period due to no fans for a large portion of it. The players faced less scrutiny.

There is too many of the team that are of a weak resillience. Couple that with players like Martinez and Casemiro having very ordinary starts to the season, and already having come up against some good sides. We've deserved the losses well and truly. But for people to suggest the man who took Ajax to the UCL semi's is the problem is nuts. He is trying to drive a culture and style at the club, and unfortunately for him some players we currently have just are not capable, yet he is stuck with them. Its easy to just shit on them atm with so many injuries and having to play people he wanted to sell, but we've got to keep pushing ahead.

He is easily the best 'coach/manager' we've had since Jose though.

Arsenal getting to where they are with Arteta didn't happen quickly. Liverpool went years and years without being a proper challenger and combining good results with good football. This was with a few managers who each had their own 'better' year before they were moved on as well.

It's just going to take time and the running of the club is not helping.

ETH is a good coach... United is run terribly

Are you two still backing him as a good coach?

 

[The True King]

I love it when the slimy six clubs get fucked over by VAR. Makes up for all the times they get away with murder.

I did laugh at this at first....

But then I thought to myself, is there any joy in seeing the integrity of the game being absolutely destroyed?

 

[Wolfie]

I did laugh at this at first....

But then I thought to myself, is there any joy in seeing the integrity of the game being absolutely destroyed?

The integrity went out of the game a long time ago imo. VAR is just making it worse. You see plenty of decisions just as laughable as the ones at Liverpool but they dont really get the headlines. I'd scrap it if i had my way. Once it affected the fans in the stadiums to the point where you dont celebrate goals anymore like we used to, it should have been binned.

 

[BroncsFan]

Are you two still backing him as a good coach?

Yep... club is still terribly run.

 

[Wolfie]

I still think ETH is a good coach, but he's not a strong enough coach to handle the mess at United. Ragnick warned United about the shit happening there, and nobody listened to him. When you see quality managers like Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ragnick struggle big time there you know its a complete mess. They have spent an absolute fortune to stand still.

 

[The True King]

The integrity went out of the game a long time ago imo. VAR is just making it worse. You see plenty of decisions just as laughable as the ones at Liverpool but they dont really get the headlines. I'd scrap it if i had my way. Once it affected the fans in the stadiums to the point where you dont celebrate goals anymore like we used to, it should have been binned.

I'm all for arguing about contentious decisions, I think that's just part of football.. can bring up basically any VAR call of the last 5 years and there will be an element to it which changes the decision depending on the angle/intent/impact/interpretation etc. That includes basically any handball, red card, penalty you can think of - I'll include the Van Dijk tackle by Pickford and the Sheffield no goal line technology in that because ultimately the ref had to make a subjective call about whether he thought the ball crossed the line.

The reason that offside call is getting the headlines is that it was an objectively wrong call, despite all the evidence and information telling the officials what the right call was. It was black and white.

At best it has demonstrated incompetence and at worst it's corruption... or more likely its somewhere in between. Liverpool have lost a league title by 12mm under Klopp, they've also lost a league title by a point, twice. As a fan I would be pissed off if we just sat back and accepted their apology or moved on like other tribalistic fans are telling us to do. Heck, it wasn't even an apology but rather an acknowledgement of the error.. what are we supposed to do with that?

I'm actually proud that our club isn't taking their excuse and demanded the audio. I want more clubs to do it moving forward and pundits like Neville who criticise the clubs or try protect the officials are part of the problem.

I agree with your general point, I just don't blame the technology. I think it's been proven that it works when its used properly and there's so many elements of it that can be automated, including offsides. They chose not to use it. The accountability and transparency of the PGMOL is what needs to change, hopefully all these headlines go someway to fixing that.

 

[The True King]

Yep... club is still terribly run.

Other coaches have done far more with far less.

I know he's a symptom of the larger problem at the club but you guys can't be accepting these tactics and uninspiring performances. The team literally can't defend, can't attack, and has no identity.

Blame the owners but I think ultimately the manager is responsible for putting a team out there that at the very least competes, attempts to execute on a gameplan and try to make the fans proud. None of that is happening under ETH.

 

[BroncsFan]

Other coaches have done far more with far less.

I know he's a symptom of the larger problem at the club but you guys can't be accepting these tactics and uninspiring performances. The team literally can't defend, can't attack, and has no identity.

Blame the owners but I think ultimately the manager is responsible for putting a team out there that at the very least competes, attempts to execute on a gameplan and try to make the fans proud. None of that is happening under ETH.

I've seen this story before...

manager gets money and club has success... club then doesn't back the coach next transfer window... team suffers on the field... coach gets sacked... rinse and repeat

Van Gaal wins FA cup... sacked straight after
Mourinho gets the team to 2nd ... sacked next season
Ole somehow gets the team to 2nd... sacked next season
ETH takes one of the worst united teams ever to 3rd... will he survive the season???

ETH thought he was getting Kim Min-Jae... nope Bayern swoop in and he gets nothing... sorry they got him 35yr old Jonny Evans... that'll fix it
ETH thought deadwood like Maguire, Donny, McTom, etc. were getting sold to fund other transfers... nope all still there... how did it take until deadline day to sell Henderson... he should've been sold like 2-3yr ago under Ole

Did ETH waste money on Mount... possibly... but he might've also been told that he'll be getting other transfers in as well

There's still players from Van Gaal era at the club living off a paycheck... the club management refuse to sell dead wood and only seem to back the manager for 1 transfer window.

Nothing will change until the Glazers **** off

 

[Wolfie]

I'm all for arguing about contentious decisions, I think that's just part of football.. can bring up basically any VAR call of the last 5 years and there will be an element to it which changes the decision depending on the angle/intent/impact/interpretation etc. That includes basically any handball, red card, penalty you can think of - I'll include the Van Dijk tackle by Pickford and the Sheffield no goal line technology in that because ultimately the ref had to make a subjective call about whether he thought the ball crossed the line.

The reason that offside call is getting the headlines is that it was an objectively wrong call, despite all the evidence and information telling the officials what the right call was. It was black and white.

At best it has demonstrated incompetence and at worst it's corruption... or more likely its somewhere in between. Liverpool have lost a league title by 12mm under Klopp, they've also lost a league title by a point, twice. As a fan I would be pissed off if we just sat back and accepted their apology or moved on like other tribalistic fans are telling us to do. Heck, it wasn't even an apology but rather an acknowledgement of the error.. what are we supposed to do with that?

I'm actually proud that our club isn't taking their excuse and demanded the audio. I want more clubs to do it moving forward and pundits like Neville who criticise the clubs or try protect the officials are part of the problem.

I agree with your general point, I just don't blame the technology. I think it's been proven that it works when its used properly and there's so many elements of it that can be automated, including offsides. They chose not to use it. The accountability and transparency of the PGMOL is what needs to change, hopefully all these headlines go someway to fixing that.

This wouldnt have got the traction if it was a Luton or Sheffield United it happened to. Their would be outrage, but it would die down pretty quickly. Bournemouth probably got relegated because they missed a clear, over the line goal in the Villa vs Sheffield United game that would have seen Villa losing points and probably relegated themselves. We got shafted at Anfield last year after there was apparently no VAR camera either working or that had a view of the 18 yard box, at a stadium like Anfield that hosts champions league games. If thats not corrupt i dont know what is. I'm sick of getting apologies from them, we must have had a dozen in the last 12 months. Just scrap the whole thing.

 

[Wolfie]

I've seen this story before...

manager gets money and club has success... club then doesn't back the coach next transfer window... team suffers on the field... coach gets sacked... rinse and repeat

Van Gaal wins FA cup... sacked straight after
Mourinho gets the team to 2nd ... sacked next season
Ole somehow gets the team to 2nd... sacked next season
ETH takes one of the worst united teams ever to 3rd... will he survive the season???

ETH thought he was getting Kim Min-Jae... nope Bayern swoop in and he gets nothing... sorry they got him 35yr old Jonny Evans... that'll fix it
ETH thought deadwood like Maguire, Donny, McTom, etc. were getting sold to fund other transfers... nope all still there... how did it take until deadline day to sell Henderson... he should've been sold like 2-3yr ago under Ole

Did ETH waste money on Mount... possibly... but he might've also been told that he'll be getting other transfers in as well

There's still players from Van Gaal era at the club living off a paycheck... the club management refuse to sell dead wood and only seem to back the manager for 1 transfer window.

Nothing will change until the Glazers **** off

While i dont like the Glazers, you cant really accuse them of not backing managers. United in the last decade have an almost $2.5 billion net spend on players. For them to not even be serious contenders is a joke. I think the issues just run deeper than just the Glazers. The recruitment strategies apart from last season have been abysmal. There is no structure in that area of the club.

This year i think they have just got it all wrong. They have downgraded the goalkeeper. Onana looks a bigger accident waiting to happen than De Gea. Mount is a complete waste of space. While Hojlund is a prospect, i'm not sure he was what united needed. Roy Keane always hits the nail on the head with United. They need characters, they need leaders, and they have neither.

I dont think its as easy though as saying they could just offload Maguire, Van De Beek, Mctominay etc. If you are trying to sell deadwood, its hardly surprising nobody wants them, and if nobody wants them you are stuck with them.

 

[The True King]

This wouldnt have got the traction if it was a Luton or Sheffield United it happened to. Their would be outrage, but it would die down pretty quickly. Bournemouth probably got relegated because they missed a clear, over the line goal in the Villa vs Sheffield United game that would have seen Villa losing points and probably relegated themselves. We got shafted at Anfield last year after there was apparently no VAR camera either working or that had a view of the 18 yard box, at a stadium like Anfield that hosts champions league games. If thats not corrupt i dont know what is. I'm sick of getting apologies from them, we must have had a dozen in the last 12 months. Just scrap the whole thing.

Again though you're comparing apples to oranges. This isn't a big club thing. You can't talk about other teams and how they would have reacted because there is simply no precedent for this degree of stuff up.

Every other club is out trying to parade the examples where VAR did them wrong, again nearly all being subjective decisions that we could debate for hours, or alternatively decisions made in the absence of technology (we had the same thing for our game against Arsenal last season with no cameras on Saka). I'm even hearing Chelsea fans talk about UCL games from 10 years ago haha.

This situation is unique in that the technology worked exactly as intended, the information was available to them and yet FIVE human beings all managed to still make the wrong decision and not one had the common sense to put integrity ahead of protocol.

It's not something I am saying you're pushing but that's my only gripe with this whole agenda about it being simply about Liverpool and this example being compared to others.

 

[The True King]

I've seen this story before...

manager gets money and club has success... club then doesn't back the coach next transfer window... team suffers on the field... coach gets sacked... rinse and repeat

Van Gaal wins FA cup... sacked straight after
Mourinho gets the team to 2nd ... sacked next season
Ole somehow gets the team to 2nd... sacked next season
ETH takes one of the worst united teams ever to 3rd... will he survive the season???

ETH thought he was getting Kim Min-Jae... nope Bayern swoop in and he gets nothing... sorry they got him 35yr old Jonny Evans... that'll fix it
ETH thought deadwood like Maguire, Donny, McTom, etc. were getting sold to fund other transfers... nope all still there... how did it take until deadline day to sell Henderson... he should've been sold like 2-3yr ago under Ole

Did ETH waste money on Mount... possibly... but he might've also been told that he'll be getting other transfers in as well

There's still players from Van Gaal era at the club living off a paycheck... the club management refuse to sell dead wood and only seem to back the manager for 1 transfer window.

Nothing will change until the Glazers **** off

A few thoughts on this,

- Varane and Martinez partnership was a key reason you were one of the better defences in the league. Varane is ageing but I'm not sure its realistic to expect you were selling Min-Jae on a rotation role in your squad ahead of playing for Bayern.

- ETH wanted Hojlund, maybe wasn't his first choice but can hardly criticize the purchase when it was a clear investment for the future from the owners and a highly touted young striker.

- Mount was ETH's first choice. That's a decision he will live or die by. Reports at the time were United offered double the wages that Liverpool had on the table for him, similar to Sancho. The deal was also done early in the window.

- Onana and Amrabat were both wanted by ETH. If they weren't his first choices they were extremely close to the top of the list.

That's 4 starting players + 2 CB's in an XI; these additions were to a squad already containing Antony, Eriksen, Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro, Shaw, Malacia, Sancho, Lindelof and Dalot, amongst others. I just find it such a cop out that United fans are saying this is some sort of issue with personnel that ETH doesn't want or that the owners haven't backed him with more signings. You can easily put an XI together with the names above, were they supposed to just sign squad fodder, upgrade some of those nailed on starters, or block the development pathway of guys like Garnacho, Pellestri, Diallo and Hannibal?

Ultimately he's getting the criticism because there is more than enough experience and emerging talent in that squad they should be comfortably beating the likes of Galatasaray and Palace. These losses are down to tactics and coaching rather than anything being done in the board room.

 

[pennywisealfie]

After the weekend we all had, I know the pain we all went through (are still going through tbh), I wish that all of your teams win the Premier League this season unless there are Chelsea fans in here.

 

[Super Freak]

United back 4 for the Brentford game.

Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, Dalot.

Oh Ten Hag...

 

[Super Freak]

Scott McTominay.

You fucking legend.

 

[The True King]

Rival fans just have to love a win like that one for Man U.

Papers over the cracks and now United fans will have a couple weeks to reflect on how the ship is turning around.

Doesn't do much other than buy more time for ETH to stuff it up later. Love it, should give the guy a contract extension right now

 

[ZTop]

Spurs on top for at least a day yay

 

[Bish]

Might start looking for odds on Ten Hag getting the boot soon. So much money spent and still pretty poor. They have regressed this season.

Wayne Rooney left DC Utd and en route back to England.

Wonder what the odds are?