FOOTBALL FIFA World Cup 2026

The whole debate about Messi or Ronaldo being the GOAT has been trophies won.

Messi has more domestic titles, but Ronaldo has more Champions League titles. Both have had success with their countries, Ronaldo with the Euro and Messi with the Copa America. When Messi won the World Cup, that put him clear.

But if Ronaldo wins it this tournament, he would have a World Cup and a Euro trophy to his name and frankly a Euro trophy is harder to win than a Copa America.

Why would that not put him clear?

But of course I guess it all depends on whether people think either of them are the GOAT and the kind of role Ronaldo has this tournament. If he's nothing more than a bit part player, kind of ruins it for him.
I think there is a lot more to it than just trophies won, because trophies won just show that you were part of a successful team. Should a 3rd string keeper who wins everything multiple times be considered a goat even though their impact was minimal?

https://michelacosta.com/messi-vs-ronaldo/ paints a good picture.

As for what's better the euros or copa america - not like Argentina can relocate where they are geographically to start playing in the euro's so it's a bit of a moot point - I will say that the Euro's that Ronaldo won, he didn't actually do much and was actually subbed off injured in the final. Not downplaying his role in getting them to that point, just in the actual final itself. Messi's contributions in Copa America finals has generally been similarly below standard, so probably a bit of a tie there.

If you look at WC performances between the two:
https://www.messivsronaldo.app/international-stats/world-cup-stats/ - go to detailed stats. Messi basically beats him on every stat. I think the glaring one for me is MOTM. Like him or not Messi generally speaking has an impact in the majority of games he plays. Unless Ronaldo gets service, he's generally peripheral.


I could cop Ronaldo being labelled the GOAT Goalscorer, I think that would be entirely fair and difficult to argue with, but as a complete package no one comes remotely close to Messi.

As an aside, I think the idea of an overarching goat of everything all time is a bit silly. I think best of your generation is basically as good as it gets, and for me there's been no one close to Messi in this time when evaluating the bigger picture. There's a reason that his fellow professionals all gush over him - not sure there's higher praise than your peers almost unanimously anointing you as the guy.
 
Anyway, why do the best players always need to be attackers? There's plenty of goalkeepers, defenders and more defensively minded midfielders that I think miss out on recognition because they didn't do the fancy stuff.
Because simply put, attackers win games. A GK could win you a game in theory with a cleansheet and saving pens in a shootout, but that's probably the only other position that singlehandedly dictates a result the majority of the time. Yeah there's outliers, but by and large, goals win games, and it's either ones scoring them, or the ones creating them - and Messi does both at an extraordinary level.
 
If we're comparing Fake Ronaldo and Messi, Messi is the clear winner, regardless of trophies.

Fake Ronaldo has had a phenomenal career, but he doesn't have as many strings to his bow as Messi does.

Anyway, why do the best players always need to be attackers? There's plenty of goalkeepers, defenders and more defensively minded midfielders that I think miss out on recognition because they didn't do the fancy stuff.

The less glamorous players never get as much recognition as the attackers. Maldini is every bit as good in his position as Messi is in his.
 
The less glamorous players never get as much recognition as the attackers. Maldini is every bit as good in his position as Messi is in his.
Maldini is rightfully recognised as one of the best defenders of all time.
 
Maldini is rightfully recognised as one of the best defenders of all time.
But not in the conversation about the best player of all time, which is wrong. I can rattle off so many players who are every bit as good as Messi, or Maradona ( i'll only mention players i have watched myself, hence no Pele ), Maldini being one, in their positions and roles.

Its very short sighted to judge players based on if they win you games or not. I dont see that as a metric to judge a players ability as a footballer. For me, you probably have to separate it positionally. If all you are going to talk about is a players skill level, then you limit yourself to just attackers generally.

Really, if you are looking at the best all round footballer of all time, its hard to go past Ruud Gullit. I dont think i have seen a footballer as well rounded, and play as a defender, attacker and midfielder at the highest level.
 
But not in the conversation about the best player of all time, which is wrong. I can rattle off so many players who are every bit as good as Messi, or Maradona ( i'll only mention players i have watched myself, hence no Pele ), Maldini being one, in their positions and roles.

Its very short sighted to judge players based on if they win you games or not. I dont see that as a metric to judge a players ability as a footballer. For me, you probably have to separate it positionally. If all you are going to talk about is a players skill level, then you limit yourself to just attackers generally.

Really, if you are looking at the best all round footballer of all time, its hard to go past Ruud Gullit. I dont think i have seen a footballer as well rounded, and play as a defender, attacker and midfielder at the highest level.
I agree with the idea that players should be judged in their respective positions in terms of best of the best.

It's not really short sighted at all to consider if they win you games or not because sport as an entity is a results based meritocracy. The best players generally end up at the best teams because they increase your chances to win. That is the whole point of the transfer system. So the idea that you don't judge players based off this is absolutely nonsensical.

No one looks at some third tier scrub and goes he's the goat. Why?
 
I agree with the idea that players should be judged in their respective positions in terms of best of the best.

It's not really short sighted at all to consider if they win you games or not because sport as an entity is a results based meritocracy. The best players generally end up at the best teams because they increase your chances to win. That is the whole point of the transfer system. So the idea that you don't judge players based off this is absolutely nonsensical.

No one looks at some third tier scrub and goes he's the goat. Why?

I think it is short sighted, because its simply overlooking the players ability as a footballer. I've had this argument many times, but for example, is Maldini as a defender, or Peter Schmeichel as a goalkeeper at the same level as a footballer as Maradona or Messi are as attackers. The answer is clearly yes, they are all elite players in their positions.

What you are talking about is a different thing. The best attacking players cost more money, bring more people and end up at the best teams because they are entertaining to watch and win games. Matchwinners do get you points, they have more eyes on them, they do win you games and therefore get the headlines. That to me is a valid argument, but i dont think its a comparison on ability. Its like this comical argument i see about winning the ballon d'or as a metric to judge players on as well. Everyone knows its the most politically voted award in world football.

The third tier scrub you are talking about is irrelevant because you arent comparing apples with apples. You are comparing say Reyes Cleary or Joe Taylor with Messi or Ronaldo. For me, you have to strip everything back to pure ability at the highest level, and base it on the era they are playing in as well. Thats a different argument as well for me though, i think good, creative attacking players are allowed to express themselves in the modern game way more than years ago which helps a lot.
 
I think it is short sighted, because its simply overlooking the players ability as a footballer. I've had this argument many times, but for example, is Maldini as a defender, or Peter Schmeichel as a goalkeeper at the same level as a footballer as Maradona or Messi are as attackers. The answer is clearly yes, they are all elite players in their positions.

What you are talking about is a different thing. The best attacking players cost more money, bring more people and end up at the best teams because they are entertaining to watch and win games. Matchwinners do get you points, they have more eyes on them, they do win you games and therefore get the headlines. That to me is a valid argument, but i dont think its a comparison on ability. Its like this comical argument i see about winning the ballon d'or as a metric to judge players on as well. Everyone knows its the most politically voted award in world football.

The third tier scrub you are talking about is irrelevant because you arent comparing apples with apples. You are comparing say Reyes Cleary or Joe Taylor with Messi or Ronaldo. For me, you have to strip everything back to pure ability at the highest level, and base it on the era they are playing in as well. Thats a different argument as well for me though, i think good, creative attacking players are allowed to express themselves in the modern game way more than years ago which helps a lot.
No arguments on point 1, which is why I've said players should be judged on their position as an overall.

I don't necessarily use ballon d'ors/WPOTY as a key metric but it's useful as a supporting metric. If you're consistently voted the best player world multiple times then there's probably something in that. Yes there are biases from journos but the biases do go both ways in terms of journos supporting their favourite player, so unless it's super close like VVD being runner up to Messi that year where it was like less than 10 votes in it, it's probably still fair to say that the winner is a deserving one.

The point I made about the third tier scrub addresses your idea that you don't have to necessarily be successful to be the best. You obviously do have to, because unless you can perform at the highest levels no one really cares that Joe Average can score 160 goals in a pub league. You do have to base on it the era which is why I've said best of their generation is a better categorization of a player as yes, for someone like Maradona he did play against people that tried to break his legs, comparatively Messi is playing against people that have sports science at the fore and ultra-professionalism in basically every aspect. Every team and player is studied and broken down to ridiculous levels, and yet, it means nothing when he gets the ball. I always find it an interesting argument when people say oh yeah but could he do it in the 60's with cow paddocks and leather balls. I'm not sure? Could Pele and Maradona do it against full time professionals who don't smoke and drink and keep their body in ridiculous physical shape every year and know their every move inside and out and can counter it? It's the same argument.

As for creative players being able to express themselves more - yes and no. The game has been going away from a free roaming 10/playmaker like Riquelme for years as in the current era of ultra-professionalism, unless you are Messi (or Salah to an extent), you're expected to contribute defensively and stay within the realms of the system otherwise teams will just pick you apart. Messi also has the highest number of assists registered out of any player in history.

Coming back to Messi briefly - he's listed as the most amount of registered assists out of any player and the 2nd highest goal scorer. Pele and Puskas are the only others that register in the top 5 for both. Like, c'mon, the dude is clearly the best of his gen and has been to two world cup finals, winning and getting MOTM in one of them. There's no comparison between him and Ronaldo.

Ronaldo would have to have the most obscene run of his magnificent career, singlehandedly carrying Portugal to a WC win, to be in the convo - which is what the original question was. Seeing as he's never scored a goal in the knockout stages, I'm dubious to say the least that at 41, he has the ability.
 
Right...but from a punting perspective guys....what do we like in this WC?
 
This world cup will be a nice distraction from the Broncos current form.
 
Actually this guy probably belongs somewhere in the top 3. I remember this was on the front page news of the cm sports section back in the day.



Rene Higuita was the best. Was always doing crazy shit. Tried to dribble around players, took free kicks for his club side and was a great GK.
 
And it's taken just 8 minutes for the first goal of the World Cup.

Good strike from Quinones. Straight through the keepers legs.
 
Should have played the pass instead of the shot. Unmarked man in the box.

Quinones getting a bit greedy there.
 
Ooo another great save from Williams.

Should have been 2-0.
 
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