Granville Discussion

[Kimlo]

This team is built around Macca and the way he plays and the combinations he has with those around him. For mine, it showed v Sharks where I believe we would have not lost if Macca had played.

Granville played well. Granville won't be here next year. What's the point of this thread?

We lost against the Roosters with Macca there. I think when the team reverts to derp mode we lose no matter who is playing.

 

[Cult]

This team is built around Macca and the way he plays and the combinations he has with those around him. For mine, it showed v Sharks where I believe we would have not lost if Macca had played.

Granville played well. Granville won't be here next year. What's the point of this thread?

Granville hasn't signed anything and would be the perfect bench utility. I don't care what any of you guys say but McCullough does too much in defense to be effective for 80 minutes.

 

[rnabokov]

I don't care. The whole team is built around Macca's plays, and our very good position on the table reflects that IMO, especially when one considers who we have at 5/8.

You don't get to be in the top 8 playing on one leg if your hooker is below standard

 

[Cult]

I don't care. The whole team is built around Macca's plays, and our very good position on the table reflects that IMO, especially when one considers who we have at 5/8.

You don't get to be in the top 8 playing on one leg if your hooker is below standard

I disagree. Our position on the table is most definitely because of Hunt. That first half against the sharks, we scored 4 tries. Granvilles speed out of dummy half helped that. We couldn't score 4 tries in a game with McCullough at hooker and Wallace at half.

 

[Alec]

Yeah, Hunt is the biggest reason, and that's partly what the original post was about. I was excited to watch him play with more space and time thanks to Granville's much quicker passing.

 

[Porthoz]

In my opinion, Granville is easily more talented than McCullough. Any advantage that Macca has is purely because of having more time in first grade, so obviously his tackling, decision making, confidence etc are all superior.

Give Jake the same amount of time to develop and his defence would tighten up, game time would increase etc. Not saying Macca isn't a top player, but I get the feeling we've back the wrong horse. Time will tell....

Granville has had one more year of senior footy than Macca, why hasn't this happened yet?

This having more time in first grade is not the end all be all people seem to think. Yes, the NRL is a level higher because the opposition is generally faster, tougher and more talented, but it doesn't mean you can't develop in the ISC, especially your core skills, like passing, kicking and defense.

I have no doubt Jake would improve in the NRL, but people thinking he would be better than Macca are frankly delusional. He doesn't pass better, he doesn't kick better, he doesn't tackle better, but he does it faster.

As to whether he would be capable of directing his forwards and make decisions better than Macca is pure wishful thinking, because he certainly hasn't shown it in the inferior competition. If a player really is talented, he should dominate at that level, and Granville has done anything but!

 

[CaptainHook]

Yeah, Hunt is the biggest reason, and that's partly what the original post was about. I was excited to watch him play with more space and time thanks to Granville's much quicker passing.

Agreed. If Granville goes to the Cowboys, JT will play the house down with the amount of space Granville can provide.

People criticise Granville for his defense but that will improve with time. Unlike speed, you can be taught how to tackle.

 

[CaptainHook]

Granville has had one more year of senior footy than Macca, why hasn't this happened yet?

Because over the last few years, players know they are under no pressure for their spot and play accordingly. As I said in another thread, Macca only really went up a gear when rumours of Cam Smith signing gathered momentum. Remember 2012? Macca was pretty bad (as were a lot of other players, but still). You give Granville that much time and rope to develop and he'd be just as good.

I have no doubt Jake would improve in the NRL, but people thinking he would be better than Macca are frankly delusional. He doesn't pass better, he doesn't kick better, he doesn't tackle better, but he does it faster.

As to whether he would be capable of directing his forwards and make decisions better than Macca is pure wishful thinking, because he certainly hasn't shown it in the inferior competition. If a player really is talented, he should dominate at that level, and Granville has done anything but!

I disagree on a few of those points. Granville has already proven he can pass better (and quicker). In a few games he has shown more attacking spark than McCullough has in entire seasons. Directing forwards and decision making are things Macca didn't have from the get go. His kicking game wasn't that flash either. All of those aspects of his game he's developed in first grade because he's been given the opportunity...unlike Granville.

 

[rnabokov]

Yeah, Hunt is the biggest reason, and that's partly what the original post was about. I was excited to watch him play with more space and time thanks to Granville's much quicker passing.

Trouble is, it came at the price of a disorganized and sloppy middle which was utterly exploited.

Hunt is of course critical to our success, but for mine, so is Macca.

If Granville had the chances Macca had, maybe he would have been as good if not better. Thing is, he didn't, we have Macca, and the lack of Macca for mine was a key reason we lost v Sharks.
We know the other one well enough

 

[Splinter]

I believe Macca would be the better hooker regardless but i do think Granville could add something to the team off the bench

 

[broncos4life]

In my opinion, Granville is easily more talented than McCullough. Any advantage that Macca has is purely because of having more time in first grade, so obviously his tackling, decision making, confidence etc are all superior.

Give Jake the same amount of time to develop and his defence would tighten up, game time would increase etc. Not saying Macca isn't a top player, but I get the feeling we've back the wrong horse. Time will tell....

Your kidding.

What besides some opinions on here and some very loose hypotheticals backs this up?

 

[broncos4life]

[MENTION=8315]CaptainHook[/MENTION] you are backing up your own argument with facts you are making up.

He passes quicker but a lot of them are wayward. His defense his sloppy and that is crucial for a hooker. All these things don't need to be in the nrl to learn, if he can't learn how to defend in the ISC then he can't in the NRL.

Granville is a good hooker and the ideal bench hooker to provide impact, that's it.

 

[Foordy]

Granville hasn't signed anything and would be the perfect bench utility. I don't care what any of you guys say but McCullough does too much in defense to be effective for 80 minutes.

His manager came out recently and said that Granville wants to be a STARTING hooker. and at his age he no longer want to be used as a bench hooker...

it doesn't matter if he would be the perfect bench hooker, he doesn't want to be a bench hooker ... and while we have no openings for a starting hooker, he will look for someone who has, namely the Cowboys under his former ISC coach Green

 

[Big Pete]

Dummy half play is one of the hardest positions to critique in the game because they're so involved in the game and it isn't really obvious whether or not they're having a good game until you slow the game down although it is certainly possible to get a general sense.

I believe the Broncos have been blessed in the dummy half department for some time now and I've liked the look of McCullough, Baptise, Granville, Cullen & Berrell to name a few. Personally, I've never been a fan of coaches preferring utility value over expertise. That's why Ben Hunt's long stint of playing as a bench utility for 4 seasons doesn't sit well with me. Yes, there was a benefit to it and I believe it worked wonders for his game initially but by 2011, Hook needed to capitilise on his natural playmaking instincts and do all he could to develop them, even if that meant sending him to the Devils or the Capras (or were they the Comets back then?).

In the mean time, I believe it would have been smart to have utilised a specialist in that role and capitilised our strengths in the dummy half position. This is hardly a unique opinion or a captain hindsight observation, although hindsight backs it up as I believe they would have put more pressure on McCullough and provided more expertise than Hunt who outside of the odd moment was patchy and seemingly lacked the nous of a dummy half, largely because he wasn't one.

However, let's cut through all the hypotheticals and focus on the present day. The Broncos can't change the past but they can certainly change the future.

I believe time in Rugby League is precious and while blooding new talent can pay dividends down the line, I also believe fans underestimate the importance of putting your best 17 on the park. When I look at the Broncos roster, I believe Jake is definitely apart of that company and while I believe apart of McCullough's superior form this year has been down to him being able to ride out 70-80 minutes instead of getting the obligatory tap on the shoulder 30 minutes in regardless of performance, I think a 10-20 minute performance from Granville (potentially even more if you run with Alec's idea on the odd occasion) would be very beneficial for the Broncos and give them an edge over their opponents more than a David Hala, David Stagg, Todd Lowrie, Jarrod Wallace or Martin Kennedy stint would.

As for the talent debate, I don't think it's a fair comparison for Granville. McCullough has a better combination with a host of players, including Ben Hunt who he played a lot of junior football with. I'm not buying the point that Granville is giving Hunt more time with the footy or that his service is three times better...all I see at this stage is Jake's ability to take quick scoots out of dummy half which are nice and all but nobody knows that they're on and they usually come on an important tackle of the set, forcing a make-shift dummy half to come in anyways to give Hunt the time to get his kick in...

Keeping in mind too, I don't believe the loss of McCullough was the deciding factor in the match. That's a discredit of Granville's game and he really busted a gut for the Broncos.

 

[CaptainHook]

Your kidding.

What besides some opinions on here and some very loose hypotheticals backs this up?

I'm not sure what you're asking, b4l?

Granville has had such limited game time, we can only really make hypotheticals...

I said he has shown more attacking spark than Macca and I stand by that. Remember Granville's debut last year? That deft little kick for Maranta to score. He has a pretty good kicking game that will only get better with time. People criticise his defense but they are delusional if they think a guy that has played a handful of games will be just as good as Macca who made his debut in 2008. You think Macca has ever missed tackle? Come on... I know there are people on this forum who say if they miss a single tackle in ISC then they don't deserve the right to disgrace a Broncos jersey but it gets a bit ridiculous at times...Defence and tackling technique can be coached.

I don't know if some of you have slept through the first half of the season but at one stage we were averaging 30-40 missed tackles a games. Surely the guys toiling away in ISC couldn't do any better or worse.

I also said if he had as much time to develop as Macca he'd be just as good. It's all hypothetical. The fact is Macca has had a long, long time to develop his game... to the point a guy like Granville could only dream of. Given an opportunity, he'd do just as well, I think. That's just my opinion.

 

[Porthoz]

Granville has had such limited game time, we can only really make hypotheticals...

No he hasn't.
He has played close to the same amount of games as Macca, except most of those were in the ISC instead of NRL, and while I admit it's not the same level, anyone reading you would think that ISC is kiddie footy, and it's really not.

Granville Joined Wynnum in 2008, played in the Broncos NYC as well, and has had as many years of senior footy as Macca. You can argue he may have developed better in the NRL, but you can't say he had limited game time to develop his skills, because that does happen in the ISC as well.

 

[wilson61]

The ISC vs NRL is slightly far fetched. If its the same thing...granville (and baptiste) are the best hookers ever to live, averaging 20+ linebreaks a year.

how many errors in the sharks game were attributed to wayward dummy half passing?
how many missed tackles did granville make...while he was on the field it was 22-6.

two pretty different players

 

[broncos4life]

The ISC vs NRL is slightly far fetched. If its the same thing...granville (and baptiste) are the best hookers ever to live, averaging 20+ linebreaks a year.

how many errors in the sharks game were attributed to wayward dummy half passing?
how many missed tackles did granville make...while he was on the field it was 22-6.

two pretty different players

No one has said they are the same thing, they are just saying ISC will still allow them to develop their skills. People are acting like Granville didn't know what a footy was until last year and using made up facts to support some theory that he would no doubt be better than macca and that the broncos backed the wrong horse.