Loyalty to players

[Broncoman]

Let's discuss this theory that QLD show loyalty to every player and stick by them no matter what.

Since Origin kicked off in 1980 QLD have used 172 players to the Blues 241. A difference of 69. This represents the larger pool of players NSW has as players are selected on their form around Origin time. This makes it unsurprising for NSW teams to change considerably over a period of time. The smaller group of players QLD Have means that the selectors have to stay loyal to the team as much as possible.

From the night NSW beat QLD 32-10 to take out a 3rd straight series win, Billy Slater, Jonathen Thurston, Cameron Smith, Petro and Corey Parker remain. QLD showed loyalty and stuck by these players and they repaid the faith with 6 series wins on the trot. Credit is due well done QLD.

But where was the loyalty shown to Clinton Schifcofske, Brad Meyers, Carl Webb, Josh Hannay, Rhys
Wesser, Bruce Astill, Matt Bowen Josh Hannay, Paul Bowman, David Stagg and many more.

They were dropped from the team because there were better mentor the Job and it's showed as QLD have entered a period of dominance.

Both sides have shown loyalty to players, NSW in the 90's and the early and mid 2000's. 1996 as the biggest example. QLD have shown loyalty in the 80's and now as prime examples. Origin loyalty needs to be earned and the history of both sides show us that.
L

 

[Broncoman]

This wasn't a NSW debate. This is just a topic I want to talk about.

 

[Ari Gold]

Let's discuss this theory that QLD show loyalty to every player and stick by them no matter what.

Since Origin kicked off in 1980 QLD have used 172 players to the Blues 241. A difference of 69.

QLD would have needed to blood a bunch of players during Super League though. In truth the number used would be closer to 160.

I also think you will find in recent times at least, a lot of players are overlooked due to better options and then brought in due to injury, as opposed to just dropping a guy and bringing in someone else.

Not to debate states, but QLD seems to pick less on form than NSW. Of course, QLD also have standouts in positions where NSW have a lot of equally good but not world class options. The real question is until NSW get halves as great as Locky and JT, do they pick one of their many options and give them a long run, or continue to pick on form? Loyalty can be great and is important, but I think it could also be dangerous. Imagine if QLD persisted with Bowen over Slater!? For NSW, i feel loyalty to Soward would be damaging.

As for loyalty itself -- it's easy to show when you're winning.

 

[Kaz]

Your best post so far.

That's not difficult.

 

[Broncoman]

You are spot on about the Super League. If it wasn't for that QLD's numbers would be less by 10 or so. The thing with Soward ill post in the NSW team thread.

 

[Kimlo]

NSW picks who ever is hyped up for that year, they don't stick by players. Wallace two game and banished, Farah two games and banished, Mullen one game and banished, I could go on but they make out players to be saviours when they choose them only to drop them if they don't win the game.

I do agree with Ari about a good team making it easy to be loyal but I still think QLD sticks with their players more.

 

[pennywisealfie]

who is Bruce Astill

 

[Coxy]

who is Bruce Astill

+1

 

[Kaz]

who is Bruce Astill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Astill

In other words a nuffy.

 

[Big Pete]

Let's compare recent history, these past 6 years.

Qld have used 44 players
NSW have used 73 players

Basically says it all. You can understand the lesser side using more players, but 29 more is crazy.

 

[Bucking Beads]

The thing is QLD settled on a spine and stuck with it even when we were losing. That is a major difference IMO. Also QLD only tend to make changes due to injury or a gun player being fit again. Blues seem to change the side way too much.

 

[Alec]

Yeah, I don't think QLD ever claimed to have always been loyal to it's players. There were the dark Michael Hagan ages, and now the golden Mal Meninga age.

 

[Big Pete]

Number of actual droppings (ie. not missing or replacing someone due to injury, suspension, retiring, moving to the ESL) would be interesting and paint a better picture too.

Don't think anything tops NSW aborting their youth movement after one 10 point loss. Such a dumb decision and easily set them back in these past couple of series.

 

[Broncoman]

Agree totally rocky. QLD's spine is their advantage.

 

[Kaz]

Not really. We have a crapload more players to choose from and when you're on the brink of 3, 4, 5, 6 series losses, you're naturally going to use a lot of players.

That's why they are losing.

They have to stick to the same players, even after a few losses.

 

[Ari Gold]

Oh is that it. Choosing a spine and sticking with it. QLD didn't just choose Slater, Smith, Lockyer/Thurston and just "hope for the best". They chose those players because they were bloody awesome.

Slater - Classed as the best Fullback ever.
Smith - Classed as the best modern day hooker.
Lockyer - Enough said.
Thurston - Enough said.

QLD have been LUCKY that they had a spine like that. Lucky. That's it. Nothing else. They are lucky that these 4 players would easily be in the top 10 players of the last 2 decades!

NSW unfortunately have not had that luxury. Johns retired. Freddy retired. Buderus went over seas. Minicheillo was struck down with major injuries after 2004. Had to start from scratch basically.

You don't just select a spine and stick with it even if it's sh1t.

Agreed completely with your points about the spine.

However, NSW still do some odd things. Like that time they picked Idris to play off the bench, and then didn't even stick with him. I mean, if you are going to do something like that, you have to at least believe in it enough that you're going to give it more than one shot, or else why bother to begin with.

And don't even start me with Will Hopoate. Without doubt the singlest biggest stupid decision NSW have made. I bet the NSW selectors will be so happy they gave him that experience so that he's had a taste and can be a better player this year. Oh wait... well there's always next year I guess. Oh wait, nope.

 

[Big Pete]

Hopoate played a big part in their victory, would have been up there as one of NSW's best IMO. Considering Lawrence & Jennings were out there isn't a whole lot they could have done.

Obviously the Queensland spine is filled with quality players but they weren't always that good.

Smith for example took years to realise his potential in the number 9 yet his position was never questioned and as a result he was able to establish himself as the best hooker in history. Similar story with Slater, he had actually been dropped prior to Mal's stint and despite some ordinary performances, Mal stuck with him, even going to extradinary lengths to look after him by naming him on the bench. Now look at him.

JT & Lockyer were always under constant pressure from Cronk & Prince yet their spots were never questioned.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Yeah Slater was the best ever fullback before he was picked. Thurston was persisted with at the start of his Origin career. Smith was also picked before his time but persisted with. If these guys were playing for NSW they would have been flicked well before we got to see how good they are.