Melbourne Storm and the great celery hat debate

[m1c]

I'm baffled how any Broncos fan can cheer the Storm on.

Easily our greatest rivals of the last decade and I haven't even touched on their cap rorting. As a league follower their attitude about the whole affair really grinds my gears. I've yet to see anyone from the playing or coaching roster concede their advantage or acknowledge any notion of impropriety. They've convinced themselves their titles aren't even tainted, let alone stripped, and bristle at any suggestion otherwise. The way I see it they completely robbed us of the 2008 premiership.

They seem to genuinely believe an extra couple of mil' to spend on a playing squad made no difference, because they 'worked hard'. What wankers. Try convincing me that we lost the 2008 preliminary final by two points because we didn't work as hard.

Winning a comp so soon will seem like vindication to them. Fark that. As long as there are squad members remaining from the cheating era I don't think we can say they're on a level playing field. Hoffman's return stinks too.

Crossing my fingers for a crying Slater after the full time siren. I hope they lose it on a shitty video ref' call.

 

[Huge]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

LOL...go the STORM....totally deserved if they win...go the Broncos in 2013...hopefully we can become a true powerhouse..we could learn a lot from the Storm, the benchmark of the decade.......just like the Storm has always been...I cannot believe people can't give the Storm credit for their efforts this year, they've obviously been under huge scrutiny this year, paid the price ,both monetarily and the damage to each and every person from the supposed cheating era, and still they have risen above the ranks. So if they have paid their dues and have paid their players according to the rules then why should you haters keep condemning them for a crime they have already paid for ??


Get over it you idiots...time to move on. Everyone deserves a second chance even the wankers who are too judgmental to build a bridge.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

Everyone deserves a second chance

not according to BHQ. anything you do at any stage in your life under any circumstance must ALWAYS be paid for for the rest of your life.

i hope the storm win for 3 reasons.

1. theyre not from NSW.
2. theyre full of Queenslanders.
3. theyve been the most dominant team that the modern era has seen, and they deserve another premiership for it. sure the pencil pushers can strip the other titles from them, but when we watched those grand finals in 07 and 09, who won? was it manly who came out on top in 07? parramatta in 09? nope, i saw melbourne win those matches.

 

[ningnangnong]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

3. theyve been the most dominant team that the modern era has seen, and they deserve another premiership for it. sure the pencil pushers can strip the other titles from them, but when we watched those grand finals in 07 and 09, who won? was it manly who came out on top in 07? parramatta in 09? nope, i saw melbourne win those matches.

And they only won because they cheated! But we've all had that debate before.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

you dont know that its the only reason that they won though, thats the thing. whos to say that slater/inglis/smith/cronk wouldnt have stayed without the extra payments?

they won the minor premiership last year while being under the cap and also while still paying part of players like Inglis' salary. theyre in the grand final this year while under the cap too. how do you know they wouldnt have done the same in 2007/2009?

 

[Fozz]

Oh FFS, this whole "would they/wouldn't they" is a dead issue. It's already been debated to death elsewhere and we already know that people aren't going to change their minds. So let's leave the past in the past and talk about THIS grand final.

 

[Kimlo]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

I'm baffled how any Broncos fan can cheer the Storm on.

Easily our greatest rivals of the last decade and I haven't even touched on their cap rorting. As a league follower their attitude about the whole affair really grinds my gears. I've yet to see anyone from the playing or coaching roster concede their advantage or acknowledge any notion of impropriety. They've convinced themselves their titles aren't even tainted, let alone stripped, and bristle at any suggestion otherwise. The way I see it they completely robbed us of the 2008 premiership.

They seem to genuinely believe an extra couple of mil' to spend on a playing squad made no difference, because they 'worked hard'. What wankers. Try convincing me that we lost the 2008 preliminary final by two points because we didn't work as hard.

Winning a comp so soon will seem like vindication to them. Fark that. As long as there are squad members remaining from the cheating era I don't think we can say they're on a level playing field. Hoffman's return stinks too.

Crossing my fingers for a crying Slater after the full time siren. I hope they lose it on a shitty video ref' call.

OMG, I love this post. Storm can **** off and die in a hole. The dirty cheating scumbags knocked us out of the finals 3 years in a row with a cheating team. If they beat us in 06 I would have been even more pissed.

Storm robbed the entire premiership for 5 years straight - they are pathetic scums headed by Bellamy who is a cheating wanker.

 

[Kimlo]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

LOL...go the STORM....totally deserved if they win...go the Broncos in 2013...hopefully we can become a true powerhouse..we could learn a lot from the Storm, the benchmark of the decade.......just like the Storm has always been...I cannot believe people can't give the Storm credit for their efforts this year, they've obviously been under huge scrutiny this year, paid the price ,both monetarily and the damage to each and every person from the supposed cheating era, and still they have risen above the ranks. So if they have paid their dues and have paid their players according to the rules then why should you haters keep condemning them for a crime they have already paid for ??


Get over it you idiots...time to move on. Everyone deserves a second chance even the wankers who are too judgmental to build a bridge.

They only kept their players because they rorted the cap. They would never have held on to Smith, Cronk and Slater all at once if they didn't initially cheat the cap. In fact Smith was all but gone to the Titans until Storm rorted the cap massively to keep him there.

Don't tell me they didn't benefit from cheating the cap, that's an absolute load of crap. If we did the same thing, we'd have Folau, Hunt and Ennis in this team now and never lost Petero.

The fact I was cheering on Manly last weeks shows how much I think the Storm don't deserve any success. They tainted the entire competition for years on end paying millions over the cap to keep their core group together while other clubs had to continually let players go.

 

[Huge]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

They won because they were better ,not because they paid their payers accordingly. What a player is paid is irrelevant because by that idiotic reasoning had Parramattas players been paid a million dollars each then they would have been undefeated and won the comp by 50+ ...Melbourne did not win the premierships because they cheated the salary cap...a device designed for one reason and one reason only...that is to reward the clubs who cannot or will not develop their own players...it is a crutch for the lesser coachs,the myths like Smith and Sheens and a way for the struggling inner city clubs to appear effective.

 

[Kimlo]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

http://www.news.com.au/we-still-want-cameron-smith/story-e6frexsi-1111117925596?matchid=NRL20112101

Smith would have been gone had they not cheated the cap. They wouldn't have won without Smith.

 

[Kimlo]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

They won because they were better ,not because they paid their payers accordingly. What a player is paid is irrelevant because by that idiotic reasoning had Parramattas players been paid a million dollars each then they would have been undefeated and won the comp by 50+ ...Melbourne did not win the premierships because they cheated the salary cap...a device designed for one reason and one reason only...that is to reward the clubs who cannot or will not develop their own players...it is a crutch for the lesser coachs,the myths like Smith and Sheens and a way for the struggling inner city clubs to appear effective.

Yes they did, they won because they cheated the cap. The WHOLE idea of the cap is to limit a club from having too many good players. The storm paid more than a million towards the end of their rorting to keep their players while we had to let players go.

It's a simple concept, they paid huge overs to avoid the negative effect of the salary cap that other clubs had to endure.

GO THE BULLDOGS!

 

[Coxy]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

**** me, this debate is pointless. Kinda like saying you don't know Ben Johnson won because he had steroids. Sure, it gave him a mega advantage, but he could still have won without...right?

 

[Kimlo]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

**** me, this debate is pointless. Kinda like saying you don't know Ben Johnson won because he had steroids. Sure, it gave him a mega advantage, but he could still have won without...right?

To me it's simple. If you had an unfair advantage then there's no way it should be counted as a legitimate win, whether that's NRL or any other sport in the world.

 

[Coxy]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

To me it's simple. If you had an unfair advantage then there's no way it should be counted as a legitimate win, whether that's NRL or any other sport in the world.

Bingo. It provides an unfair advantage. Whether that advantage was significant is neither here nor there.

As for "getting over it", maybe when the Storm themselves do? If they win on Sunday night and crap on about vindication or whatever I will choke.

It does seem poetic that the 2 biggest rorters in salary cap history are playing eachother.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

the broncos were fined $30k for a salary cap breach - unapproved TPA - in 2006. premiership voided?

 

[Coxy]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

the broncos were fined $30k for a salary cap breach - unapproved TPA - in 2006. premiership voided?

^^ This is why nobody should bother arguing with you. Broncos breach due, IIRC, an incorrectly categorised but declared 3rd party payment vs 5 years of systematic dual books, dual contracts and fraudulent movements of cash from club to sponsors to third parties to players to beat the system....

It's kinda like comparing someone getting a speeding ticket vs running a stolen car racket.

But hey, it helps you sleep at night with actually supporting the Storm, and it's fine, shows everyone how completely irrational you are.

 

[QUEENSLANDER]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

Regardless of this argument, if the players didnt know of the rorting, i can understand the sentiments that Hoffman has voiced in saying that in the players minds, they worked hard and deserved their wins.

 

[Anonymous person]

Re: Grand Final Discussion

^^ This is why nobody should bother arguing with you. Broncos breach due, IIRC, an incorrectly categorised but declared 3rd party payment vs 5 years of systematic dual books, dual contracts and fraudulent movements of cash from club to sponsors to third parties to players to beat the system....

It's kinda like comparing someone getting a speeding ticket vs running a stolen car racket.

But hey, it helps you sleep at night with actually supporting the Storm, and it's fine, shows everyone how completely irrational you are.

i dont think for one second that the broncos should lose their premiership, im just pointing out that just because they breached the salary cap doesnt mean they had some sort of super team that never wouldve been possible without the breach.

from the NRL records it seems that it was probably declared, not approved, but they made the payment anyway. if it was incorrectly categorised it wouldve been labelled like this i assume, like the others that match your description:

"Fully disclosed. Third party agreement reclassified by salary cap auditor."

im just pointing out that statements like this:

"If you had an unfair advantage then there's no way it should be counted as a legitimate win, whether that's NRL or any other sport in the world."

can also apply to the Broncos 2006 win, as they paid someone money that they shouldnt have. thats an unfair advantage technically. nowhere near the same scale, dont even try and pretend im saying it is - but its an advantage nonetheless.

and like Queenslander said, the players went out there and worked their butt off for 30 weeks and won the matches. the fact that a few of their managers were doing dodgy deals doesnt make that effort - or the feeling of winning - mean any less to those players.

and remember - it was legally ruled that none of the players, nor the coach, knew about any of the cheating. fact.