-OFFICIAL- Mr Consistent cements two more years

Marty Deutschmann

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Disagree, we're paying TPJ too much money to be on the bench and playing limited minutes. We need to just start him and play him 80 imo, I still believe this is comfortably our best option -

8. Lodge
9. Turpin
10. Haas
11. Fifita
12. Pangai Jr
13. Carrigan (c)

14. Glenn (c)
15. Ofahengaue
16. Flegler
17. Paix (Utility of some sort)
And we are paying Boyd too much to play Qcup. What's your point?
 

kooly87

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Seriously, if they come up with anything other than making him the Captain, they're kidding themselves.

Hell, even if he has to be a Co-Captain with Boyd for the time being (assuming Boyd can hang on to a spot in the side) it buys Lodge and Fifita and Carrigan some time to learn from them and establish their own leadership credentials before they can step into the role.
 

Morepudding

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I don't think Lexy will be in the starting line-up, it's pretty difficult to give him the captaincy if that's the case, at best he might be part of a co-captaincy with either Lodge or Carrigan.
I think he will be starting second row. TPJ isn't fit enough / his legs can't handle 80 minutes. Better off having Glenn at left edge for 20-25 before TPJ comes on. Then Glenn either has a rest or moves into the middle.
 

Unbreakable

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And we are paying Boyd too much to play Qcup. What's your point?
Well I suppose the difference would be that Tevita is good at football, if you're genuinely asking.

He's also significantly better than Glenn, which for whatever reason people are forgetting. Recency bias due to his poor discipline I suppose.
 

theshed

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I don't think Glenn ever imagined he would be in the frame for captain, and neither did I in fact, yet here we are.
I think he probably did. He was VC for years and captained the club several times before being overlooked on a number of occasions now. If anything Lexi would have a right to feel a bit hard done by that it’s taken this long for him to be back in the frame.
 

kooly87

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Well I suppose the difference would be that Tevita is good at football, if you're genuinely asking.

He's also significantly better than Glenn, which for whatever reason people are forgetting. Recency bias due to his poor discipline I suppose.
I'm not sure I'd agree that he's 'better' than Glenn. They're totally different players and offer different skill sets.

TPJ has huge swings in his form. At his best he can be devastating but at his worst, which still happens regularly enough, he can be a fair liability. His running game on an edge is on another level to Glenn, but his defence is still quite poor and especially compared to Glenn.

Glenn certainly doesn't have the explosive, match turning skill set that TPJ does. His best game is comfortably a level below TPJ's, but unlike TPJ his worst games are not that different to his best games and he's easily our most reliable player week in week out (as evidenced by winning this award 5 years running)

It's just horses for courses really and what suits the balance of the side best. TPJ can be 8-9/10 or 4-5/10, whereas Glenn is almost always a 7/10 and personally I think that level of reliability has been invaluable in the last couple of seasons.
 

kooly87

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I think he probably did. He was VC for years and captained the club several times before being overlooked on a number of occasions now. If anything Lexi would have a right to feel a bit hard done by that it’s taken this long for him to be back in the frame.
He was also our inaugural NYC Captain back in 2008. Becoming the full time Captain at some point would actually be a great story for the club and for Alex.
 

Unbreakable

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His running game on an edge is on another level to Glenn, but his defence is still quite poor and especially compared to Glenn.
Pangai Jr - 23.4 tackles per game @ 84.4% efficiency
Glenn - 29.8 tackles per game @ 85.6% efficiency

Seems like a bit of a myth, I thought he improved noticeably defensively over the course of the season. While we're throwing comparative stats out -

Pangai Jr - 119.3 metres, 2.4 tackle busts, 3.0 offloads per game
Glenn - 83.1 metres, 1.5 tackle busts, 0.2 offloads per game

Don't get me wrong, I love Alex as a player, but he isn't Tevita. The only thing holding TPJ back from being literally a top 3 forward in the game is his discipline, fitness & giving consistent performances. Even if he can only iron out 1 or 2 of those deficiencies this year, he'll be a monster.

Glenn just makes way more sense on the bench, we need some experience on there, he can cover a back line injury, when he comes on we can shift TPJ to Lock to give Carrigan a spell, etc. It just makes the rotations & injury cover better.
 

kooly87

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Pangai Jr - 23.4 tackles per game @ 84.4% efficiency
Glenn - 29.8 tackles per game @ 85.6% efficiency

Seems like a bit of a myth, I thought he improved noticeably defensively over the course of the season. While we're throwing comparative stats out -

Pangai Jr - 119.3 metres, 2.4 tackle busts, 3.0 offloads per game
Glenn - 83.1 metres, 1.5 tackle busts, 0.2 offloads per game

Don't get me wrong, I love Alex as a player, but he isn't Tevita. The only thing holding TPJ back from being literally a top 3 forward in the game is his discipline, fitness & giving consistent performances. Even if he can only iron out 1 or 2 of those deficiencies this year, he'll be a monster.

Glenn just makes way more sense on the bench, we need some experience on there, he can cover a back line injury, when he comes on we can shift TPJ to Lock to give Carrigan a spell, etc. It just makes the rotations & injury cover better.
It's more than just the tackle stats. Glenn makes better decisions defensively, his ability to read what his defenders either side of him are doing is also a lot better. I could be wrong but I also think your numbers include the games Glenn spent at Centre and that TPJ spent in the middle, so that skews their numbers a little as well.

I'm 100% with you that TPJ at his best offers far more. I still think he has a future on the edge and long term we need him to excel in that role. I just think I'd want to see him producing his best way more consistently than he does currently before I'd be prepared to relegate Glenn to the Bench on a full time basis.
 
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Marty Deutschmann

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Pangai Jr - 23.4 tackles per game @ 84.4% efficiency
Glenn - 29.8 tackles per game @ 85.6% efficiency

Seems like a bit of a myth, I thought he improved noticeably defensively over the course of the season. While we're throwing comparative stats out -

Pangai Jr - 119.3 metres, 2.4 tackle busts, 3.0 offloads per game
Glenn - 83.1 metres, 1.5 tackle busts, 0.2 offloads per game

Don't get me wrong, I love Alex as a player, but he isn't Tevita. The only thing holding TPJ back from being literally a top 3 forward in the game is his discipline, fitness & giving consistent performances. Even if he can only iron out 1 or 2 of those deficiencies this year, he'll be a monster.

Glenn just makes way more sense on the bench, we need some experience on there, he can cover a back line injury, when he comes on we can shift TPJ to Lock to give Carrigan a spell, etc. It just makes the rotations & injury cover better.
Tavita makes way more sense from the bench because he's an impact player

We can't have everyone who's on the field being strike, and all the players on the bench workhorse players
 

Unbreakable

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It's more than just the tackle stats. Glenn makes better decisions defensively, his ability to read what his defenders either side of him are doing is also a lot better. I could be wrong but I also think your numbers include the games Glenn spent at Centre and that TPJ spent in the middle, so that skews their numbers a little as well.

I'm 100% with you that TPJ at his best offers far more. I still think he has a future on the edge and long term we need him to excel in that role. I just think I'd want to see him producing his best way more consistently than he does currently before I'd be prepared to relegate Glenn to the Bench on a full time basis.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that Glenn is more consistent and reliable, that's obvious. I just think we should at the very least give Tevita first crack to show that we have confidence in him, if he's the same player as last year, making poor defensive decisions, missing tackles, giving away stupid penalties, that's when we shift him back to an impact bench prop role in my opinion.
 

Unbreakable

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Tavita makes way more sense from the bench because he's an impact player

We can't have everyone who's on the field being strike, and all the players on the bench workhorse players
Flegler & Joffa will provide enough impact imo. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't start our best attacking players on the edges, that's arguably the most important position on the entire team to have guys who can create something out of nothing, we just happen to be blessed with TPJ & Fifita, two of the best something out of nothing guys in the comp.
 

Morkel

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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that Glenn is more consistent and reliable, that's obvious. I just think we should at the very least give Tevita first crack to show that we have confidence in him, if he's the same player as last year, making poor defensive decisions, missing tackles, giving away stupid penalties, that's when we shift him back to an impact bench prop role in my opinion.
This is where we sit back and hope the pre-season process works, ie, whoever knuckles down, works the hardest, and deserves the spot best, is who Seibold will name in the #11 jersey. Pretty sure Fifita will be on the right.
 

GCBRONCO

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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that Glenn is more consistent and reliable, that's obvious. I just think we should at the very least give Tevita first crack to show that we have confidence in him, if he's the same player as last year, making poor defensive decisions, missing tackles, giving away stupid penalties, that's when we shift him back to an impact bench prop role in my opinion.
Confidence in a player is earnt, a starting position even more so, Glenn has proven time and again he won't let you down for 80 minutes of football. I don't doubt TPJ talent and potential, I do question his maturity and lack of discipline at present however as shown this season, he missed far too many matches and conceded cheap penalties because of it. He shouldn't be gifted it, he should earn it in 2020. Depending on what happens with Fifita he may get an early chance to still prove that.

Regardless where you stand, it's nice to see the forward pack has such depth and competition where you can really only say Haas and Lodge are certainties.
 
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Marty Deutschmann

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Flegler & Joffa will provide enough impact imo. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't start our best attacking players on the edges, that's arguably the most important position on the entire team to have guys who can create something out of nothing, we just happen to be blessed with TPJ & Fifita, two of the best something out of nothing guys in the comp.
Flegler and Joffer I don't really see as impact players... They're not the offloading, tackle busting boppers, more solid, run of the mill type of guys. Certainly not X factor players
 

kooly87

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Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that Glenn is more consistent and reliable, that's obvious. I just think we should at the very least give Tevita first crack to show that we have confidence in him, if he's the same player as last year, making poor defensive decisions, missing tackles, giving away stupid penalties, that's when we shift him back to an impact bench prop role in my opinion.
I think that's what preseason and trial matches are for. If TPJ can show he's worked on that stuff during the offseason then I'm happy to see him get the spot, but he's got a fair bit of work in front of him defensively and as we all know, you know what you're getting with Glenn, so he's got a big job to try and unseat our most consistent player.

I'm 100% keen to see TPJ develop his edge game, but until it's more reliable than it is currently, I'm happy for him to come off the bench.
 

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