CROSS FORUM NRL 2023 Round 8 Discussion

[BroncsFan]

But I just don't think that is that bad a tackle. I mean to me, a hip drop should be by definition a player going in to deliberately or recklessly injure another player without mitigating momentum, not simply because momentum takes you in to an unfortunate position that you just can't do anything about.

But that's the same definition as a high shot or a "tackled him too hard" or a head clash

There needs to be some sort of action to go with your definition... and the only definition I've heard is using your weight on the back of the legs to bring someone to ground.

 

[NZWarriors.com]

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Mams one was deliberate he flung his legs back. If Doorey hits the hole and Mam just holds on his feet don't end up infront of doorway.

But as kids they aren't taught that tackling technique. These guys know how to tackle but they been training this type of the tackle for a few years hence why it's in the game.

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A bit left of field

 

[ZTop]

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I'm sick of these experts talking about the hip drop. It's easy not to do a hip drop. That's to make a text book tackle. Now if you want to get rid of a hip drop reward a tackle that stops a player instantly.

Text book Legs tackle boom player on deck let they tackler. Hold on for 5 seconds. No more hip drops

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A bit left of field

Sounds so easy? I wish everyone had just thought to do textbook tackles? And then we wouldn't have high shots either

 

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Sounds so easy? I wish everyone had just thought to do textbook tackles? And then we wouldn't have high shots either

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Funnily enough it is that easy. The problem. Though is if you make a tackle like that where you've axed them to the turf. The tackled player has the advantage even though you stopped them dead instantly.

In each of the Mam and Hopgood tackles neither slid down. And neither missed the contact point.

Haas is slightly different he missed the contact point. His was fair to be reported only.

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A bit left of field

 

[Cult]

People claiming Mam's tackle was intentional have never played a game of league against a player bigger than them running at speed. When you make a tackle like that you're always going to swing around the player and land behind them.

 

[Midean]

Maam gets dragged by a bigger stronger bloke and momentum does the rest.
Initially i thought Maams was the worst of the three, but after rewatching it and listening to Brandy break it down, i tend to agree with him.

You can see Maam attempt to dig his feet in the ground to pull the guy up, but didnt have the strength and got dragged into a rear position over his legs.

Absolutely not intentionally dropping his weight on his legs, he is just getting dragged along and physics is doing the rest.

 

[BroncosFever]

It gets to a point where the momentum and strength of the bigger man makes it so the smaller guy just can't bring him down and that's when Mam loses his feet, in that situation he's only going to end up in one place and that's on the back of the bigger guys legs.

You can see in the replay Mam was trying desperately to stay on his feet but it just got to a point where he couldn't anymore.

 

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People claiming Mam's tackle was intentional have never played a game of league against a player bigger than them running at speed. When you make a tackle like that you're always going to swing around the player and land behind them.

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As a smaller person who has played league.for the majority of my life. I can say you can tackle a bigger player and keep your feet behind you when tackling it's entirely possible.

What differs here is Mam isn't trying to stop him by wrapping the legs at all. He's attempting to stop him using his body weight. While continuing to hold on to his waist.

I m also not saying that there won't be cases when a smaller player gets dragged like that but in this case he stuck the contact then remained with the waist and made not attempt to slide down.

Granted it was at speed but you can make legs tackles at speed too.

What it comes down to is the wrestle and the tackler being in a dominant position when the tackle is made and text book bears no advantage. So they don't do it anymore. Coding you do there's an offload or a quick play of the ball coming and you're down a man at the marker. So no incentive to tackle properly.

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A bit left of field

 

[BroncosFever]

Pretty much every dodgy tackling technique can come back to one thing, if you tackle a guy around the ankles you get no ascendency in the ruck. He gets up and plays it quick, you're not square at marker, away they go.

 

[Morkel]

Maam gets dragged by a bigger stronger bloke and momentum does the rest.
Initially i thought Maams was the worst of the three, but after rewatching it and listening to Brandy break it down, i tend to agree with him.

You can see Maam attempt to dig his feet in the ground to pull the guy up, but didnt have the strength and got dragged into a rear position over his legs.

Absolutely not intentionally dropping his weight on his legs, he is just getting dragged along and physics is doing the rest.

If you watch it again you'll see that Mam's actions aren't what brings the Eels player to the ground. He feels the tackler behind him and deliberately drops, he's just milking the fucking tackle, and doesn't get caught or twisted at all. But he goes down all "Oh no I'm being injured" and when nothing comes of it he's all sweet. It's only after the rest of the entire set that the video ref goes back to it.

And that's why you can't use "injury" to assess danger, because gutless flogs will feign it to get an advantage.

 

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Pretty much every dodgy tackling technique can come back to one thing, if you tackle a guy around the ankles you get no ascendency in the ruck. He gets up and plays it quick, you're not square at marker, away they go.

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Basically so unless there is incentive we won't see it back in the game as a fix to the hip drop etc.

The only other fix I see is the tackler hold and then allow themselves to be dragged. Meaning feet stay behind them.

They fixed the cannonball and chicken wing to and extent in a way.

Crusher is a bit different because attacking players turn. If you really wanted to fix that you'd penalize players to turning their backs to the try line or after the spin and are "tied" up they surrender because they have up their right to fight for a meter when they put themselves into that position.

Or the Ref could call held as soon as they turn and multiple players are hold the attacking player.. Could speed the game up though.

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A bit left of field

 

[Big Pete]

Its a try before the tech to slow it down was around.

Thats how i see it in any case, but i also see the alternative.
There is a reason Joey said what he said.

I just wonder where it ends, as i said earlier, you slow down any play enough you will find an error.

I thought it was a try, and only in super slow motion did it look like he rolled it forward vs simultaneous downward pressure.

I also think the Yow Yeh one was a try though haha.

edit: if you plant a try but at the same time roll the hand over the ball and propel it forward, while simultaneously forcing it with downward pressure, which move is counted first? The downward pressure or the roll forward?

This stuff is all happening in fractions of a second.

The downward pressure.

You couldn't ground the ball like some players do in the field of play without it being a knock on. It's only in the in-goal where you can get away with it.

 

[BroncsFan]

If you watch it again you'll see that Mam's actions aren't what brings the Eels player to the ground. He feels the tackler behind him and deliberately drops, he's just milking the fucking tackle, and doesn't get caught or twisted at all. But he goes down all "Oh no I'm being injured" and when nothing comes of it he's all sweet. It's only after the rest of the entire set that the video ref goes back to it.

And that's why you can't use "injury" to assess danger, because gutless flogs will feign it to get an advantage.

He also faked a head high shot and should've been dragged for a HIA, but apparently that deterrent isn't really a thing... it's just something the pundits like to talk about, even though it barely happens

 

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The player who gets hip dropped screams in pain, Is that real or acting?

Its always so hard to tell when there is pressure on the leg. Sometimes with those crusher ones you see a miraculous recovery as soon as the whistle is blown which can be frustrating.

One thing we can be sure of is that Regan's pain was 100% legit last night. The sideline commentator said it took him ages to get up some stairs.

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[1910]

Maybe they have a different five-eighth in mind and didn't want all the media attention to be on them?

Not going to happen this week.

 

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Mam & Haas both charged and will miss 1 game with guilty plea

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[Harry Sack]

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Mam & Haas both charged and will miss 1 game with guilty plea

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Meanwhile Hopgood, cops a fine. Was his second charge too. His was also arguably the most hip drop of the lot. This shit is bonkers.

 

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Basically so unless there is incentive we won't see it back in the game as a fix to the hip drop etc.

The only other fix I see is the tackler hold and then allow themselves to be dragged. Meaning feet stay behind them.

They fixed the cannonball and chicken wing to and extent in a way.

Crusher is a bit different because attacking players turn. If you really wanted to fix that you'd penalize players to turning their backs to the try line or after the spin and are "tied" up they surrender because they gave up their right to fight for a meter when they put themselves into that position.

Or the Ref could call held as soon as they turn and multiple players are hold the attacking player.. Could speed the game up though.

The decision for a referee to call "TACKLE" is based too much on whether momentum has been halted and as players are "Bigger! Stronger! Faster!" (c) 1999 or 2000 Warriors NRL Campaign I Forget Exactly Which, these days, stopping a player's momentum often requires more than one tackler - well, that and the fact that the Storm began the multiple-tackle craze and the NRL never thought to put a stop to it/allow it only in certain situations.
The only reason for one-on-one tackles now - and of course there's players peeling off to allow this to occur so technically it's a one-on-one tackle because there's only one player when the ref yells "TACKLE" but it's not - is the stripping rule.
Maybe something as drastic as a "No off-load in a one-on-one tackle situation" rule or "the attacking player gets to take an extra step in a multiple-tackler situation" rules is required?
Off course, the ultimate rule change would be to ban multiple-player tackles or rule that those don't count as part of the attacking team's Set of Six...

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The NRL Video Referee Says "WOOF! WOOF!" As It Taps It's White Cane...