PRE-GAME Round 1 - Roosters v Broncos

[YeahNahMate]

What a shame about Staggs. Just when I thought we could begin a season virtually injury free.

It's a loss, one of the few true strike centres in the game, plus what he gives us coming out of yardage. Big shoes to fill.

I "do" believe that this roster has brought into what Madge is selling.

But the litmus test is this Roosters game. If i was Madge, i'd basically say to the guys that no-one has any credit in the bank with me. You all must earn it starting round 1 of the season.

And earn it through your defence.

I don't think it will be as straightforward as some posters here think.

I was keen to see staggs terrorise an inexperienced roosters back line.

Yea no matter how we played as a team, you could always count on Staggs to destroy half the opposition while making a length of the feild try.

He would have destroyed this Roosters edge.

Although I’d rather have Staggs fit I’m optimistic about a hungry Mariner getting his chance to prove himself after looking like he wouldn’t be picked.

I don’t think we lose anything in attack but I think Staggs defence is better.

 

[McHunt]

I think it's more about the ball being further away from the inside defender than it would be in the other hand... a fend or a step can get them further from the inside defender. If it's coming from a centre or a second rower, then they're putting pressure on the outside defender to come in, and then all of a sudden you've committed two defenders and an outside man is open.

Even if that is the case from coaches I just think it's so rare to get a high quality attacking player with a left hand carry that it is a waste to put them on the wrong side of the field.

It's ALWAYS a tradeoff.

Most rugby players of both ilks need to become reasonably ambidextrous in both legs and hands to progress through to the professional level. That applies even more-so with kicking, which is harder than hand co-ordination, because it requires hand to leg co-ordination.

Playing on the wing requires a few standard skills:

1. fast, usually the fastest in the team
2. hard to tackle,
3. safe under the high ball
4. stable under lateral pressure
5. evasive
6. freakish skill at catching bad balls at high speed under pressure
7. freakish ball placement over the line
8. a variety of inside kicks
9. solid defence against fast moving opposition

That's before you get into reading the game and fitness.

It's not as important for a wing to have an excellent passing game, but you will need a basic passing game, especially to the inside, including basketball style variations and long distance lobs (particularly in union.)

So if you're the fastest in the team, and passing isn't your strong suit, you will inevitably be looking at one of the wings. Then you will have to decide which one.

The more dominant you are on one side of your body, the more you'll be conflicted.

If you are right handed/footed, you will gravitate to the right, because:

1. You will fumble fewer catches if you can stop the ball with your right arm.
2. It will be easier to kick inside from your right foot.
3. It will be easier to step inside from your right foot.
4. You will have more strength to push off attackers coming from your inside with your right foot.

However, if you are right handed, you will be disadvantaged on the right, because:

1. You will naturally tuck under your left, and fend with your right. Defence will mostly be coming from your left.
2. You will prefer to hold the ball in your right hand when diving for the line, a disadvantage in the right hand corner.

That's it. You have to train to be as ambidextrous as possible, and then trade off your fend against your catch and kick. A dominant right hander needs to practice tucking under the right, and fending with the left, and placing with the left. It's not easy, but that's why you train.

And then when you master both sides, they might move you to the centre.

 

[McHunt]

But they don`t .
See Selwyn on the left . He fends guys off with his right fend and runs away . Right side he still carries the ball in his left hand .
A cpl of weeks back Arthars played right side in the trial and looked comfortable . He played right centre for the warriors and used his right hand to Gidley flick to his winger .
So ??

They're professionals. They have to train to be ambidextrous, but they will always slip into what feels safer.

 

[Big Del]

Although I’d rather have Staggs fit I’m optimistic about a hungry Mariner getting his chance to prove himself after looking like he wouldn’t be picked.

I don’t think we lose anything in attack but I think Staggs defence is better.

Ball and all tackle by Staggs hurts people .
Mariner is more classical . I think Mariner could score more points .

 

[Big Del]

I think it's more about the ball being further away from the inside defender than it would be in the other hand... a fend or a step can get them further from the inside defender. If it's coming from a centre or a second rower, then they're putting pressure on the outside defender to come in, and then all of a sudden you've committed two defenders and an outside man is open.

Players are looking to wrap up the ball... if it's in the right hand of a right sided back then the inside man will struggle to get to it... for wingers this makes put downs for tries easier.

You see now defenders and fullbacks just targetting the arm, hand, whatever of the winger if they're holding the ball on the inside hand. Can't do that if they're carrying it in the outside hand.

It's similar for a lot of things in league... a centre or second rower carrying it with the inside hand is easier to shut down the ball from the inside defenders. Whereas if it's in the outside hand it makes separation from the inside defender easier dragging an extra defender in to shut it down.

Dave Fifita is far more dangerous on the right when he can have that arm free for an offload, but for some stupid reason titans have always played him on the left and allow one of his biggest threats to be nullified.

Kickers as well... the main kicker will get the side of the field for their outside foot... because markers will be coming from their inside and they don't want pressure on their kicking leg.

I swear Cobbo is only on the right, because Oates was our 'left winger' when he first came into grade and so they just kept it like that ... but Oates would've probably been better if he was on the right... except he was put on the left, because players like Kahu were already on the right and Oates started out as a second rower and was just filling in.

There is plenty of footage of Cobbo as a left centre coming through juniors, so he knows how to play there... same as Latrell coming through. Left hand carry, put your strike skillful centre at left centre to fully utilise his talents.

The only thing I've noticed that could be getting some traction from coaches is when they're in yardage or kick returns, because this is when the outside backs are running back in field, so a left arm carry on a right winger has the ball away from the initial contact and usually away from the markers coming with inside pressure... so coaches might be thinking well my winger is taking 20 hitups a game so I want the ball protected where the majority of his hitups are happening i.e. yardage. Except I think that is more of a risk when they're running from dummy half, because they have inside pressure from the markers, and usually if they're receiving a pass they can get themselves lined up for the contact a bit better.

Even if that is the case from coaches I just think it's so rare to get a high quality attacking player with a left hand carry that it is a waste to put them on the wrong side of the field.

Nice analysis .
Pretty much what I was thinking with some nice add details I hadn`t considered .

I know what you`re saying Mc Hunt but in the real world it isn`t happening .
Left handers / left footers are gold . They should be used to advantage not made to play where their natural advantage is nulified .
Just the other week Selwyn on the left was able to break tackles with a fend . On the left side . All Stars game played left side made huge breaks using his fend . but , nah put him on the right ....

 

[BroncsFan]

It's ALWAYS a tradeoff.

Most rugby players of both ilks need to become reasonably ambidextrous in both legs and hands to progress through to the professional level. That applies even more-so with kicking, which is harder than hand co-ordination, because it requires hand to leg co-ordination.

Playing on the wing requires a few standard skills:

1. fast, usually the fastest in the team
2. hard to tackle,
3. safe under the high ball
4. stable under lateral pressure
5. evasive
6. freakish skill at catching bad balls at high speed under pressure
7. freakish ball placement over the line
8. a variety of inside kicks
9. solid defence against fast moving opposition

That's before you get into reading the game and fitness.

It's not as important for a wing to have an excellent passing game, but you will need a basic passing game, especially to the inside, including basketball style variations and long distance lobs (particularly in union.)

So if you're the fastest in the team, and passing isn't your strong suit, you will inevitably be looking at one of the wings. Then you will have to decide which one.

The more dominant you are on one side of your body, the more you'll be conflicted.

If you are right handed/footed, you will gravitate to the right, because:

1. You will fumble fewer catches if you can stop the ball with your right arm.
2. It will be easier to kick inside from your right foot.
3. It will be easier to step inside from your right foot.
4. You will have more strength to push off attackers coming from your inside with your right foot.

However, if you are right handed, you will be disadvantaged on the right, because:

1. You will naturally tuck under your left, and fend with your right. Defence will mostly be coming from your left.
2. You will prefer to hold the ball in your right hand when diving for the line, a disadvantage in the right hand corner.

That's it. You have to train to be as ambidextrous as possible, and then trade off your fend against your catch and kick. A dominant right hander needs to practice tucking under the right, and fending with the left, and placing with the left. It's not easy, but that's why you train.

And then when you master both sides, they might move you to the centre.

I think you're focussing too much on comments about the fend... you don't pick a player in a position purely on the strength of their fend, however the availability of the fend is an added bonus if you pick them on the side that suits their natural carry.

You talk about needing to be ambidextrous, which would be great in theory, but in the real world they just aren't and they're not training for it. Soccer players spend their entire lives with a ball at their feet, and yet for some of them you may as well remove the weak foot, because they never use it. AFL players never practice kicking with their weak foot despite what would be a huge advantage if they do.

They've been playing footy since they were 10 and they're natural tendencies are locked in at this point... there are stories of Bellamy drilling into his players which way someone will step, because it's predictable and it's the players natural instinct that has been built up over decades of playing at this point. Coaches need to look at the natural tendencies of the players available and pick them in the spot that best utilises what they have available.

Jesse and Cobbo have been identified as the two best wingers in the squad... so they presumably check off the dot points you put in your post better than other available options. Jesse has shown he can play both sides, but even in the last trial when he was putting the ball down the winger was attacking the ball carrying arm and it almost came loose. Compare that to the all stars when he was on the right and he stepped around his opposite, put the fend on and finished easily. Even the first try that he bombed on the kick through from Bhunt, he's potentially fumbled that because it's a less natural position for him to be attacking the ball from.

Jesse is right handed, right footed, carries in his right, etc. therefore he's more comfortable on the right.

Selwyn is left handed and carries in his left hand... he came through juniors playing left centre... yet he's playing on the right side... because Oates happened to be on the left when he first came into grade. He's only on the right because of circumstance at this point.

Same thing happened with Herbie... Staggs was right centre, we had a spot open at left centre hence Herbie played left centre for us and proceeded to only ever hold the ball in his right hand for 2 years. As soon as he gets to dolphins he's over on the right... they've shifted him back and forth between left and right, mainly because Tesi was getting slaughtered on the left and Averillo must only be able to play on the right... but Herbie undoubtably plays better on the right... he's just moved around due to team necessity.

We don't have that necessity forcing us to pick players on a less preferred sides. The guys identified as the two best wingers in the squad are also best suited to the opposite side of the field as each other... that's a dream scenario. Compromise and team necessity is not needed for our current situation and Cobbo is on the right because circumstance put him there when he first came to grade.

 

[Big Del]

Cobbo is on the right because circumstance put him there when he first came to grade.

I can only think it`s combinations in defence .
But ,,, Staggs left Cobbo on his own to solve the problems regularly .

There must be more to it ? When I saw Arthars in the all stars get on the outside and use his fend to score I thought then Oh well Cobbo will be on the left this year .

 

[BroncsFan]

I can only think it`s combinations in defence .
But ,,, Staggs left Cobbo on his own to solve the problems regularly .

There must be more to it ? When I saw Arthars in the all stars get on the outside and use his fend to score I thought then Oh well Cobbo will be on the left this year .

That's what they would be claiming, but I don't rate Staggs' decision making in defence anyway... so he's either going without telling Cobbo or Cobbo isn't reacting to the calls... so if they are talking about defence then it's not very good to begin with

 

[Lostboy]

Good to see all this constructive talk.....
I don't respond much ... probably only bad comments and jokes but love to read what everyone else is thinking.

BHQ.
Home to the lost......

Please win for f uck sake... I need a GF.!
2006 is to far in the past.

We are minus 2 gf.....

But I still hate the cowboys more then Panthers....

Storm and Eels .... make the list too