POST GAME Round 13 - Rabbitohs vs Broncos

[Huge]

Lets take a round figure and say the cap is 10 mil. They now have 8.75mil for 29 players. Lets take away the players they have on overs or other big money (i.e taylor, brimson, s.boyd, tino). Now there is less than 7 mil for 25 players. So to manage the cap, the rest of their team will be lesser skilled players on moderate/minimal wage. Lose a couple of those players and you are playing with a poor quality squad.

So if you want to be a pedant you could say they dont have ALL their eggs in fifita's basket but they have a lot of eggs in fifita's basket, quite a number in taylors and several in other players but then the other players have barely enough to make an omlette.

......Mmmm damn it, i am hungry now!

Truthfully you forgot to mention they are unloadiing some overpaid duds like Boyd and Cartwright. Also, every team has bottom tier players. Every team has a millionaire player, or at least very very close. The difference for the Titans or any club with a 1.15m, or 1.1m, 1.0m or 950k player is NO DIFFERENCE other than (up to) 250k. When that difference is spread across the wage packets it's identical to the other 15 clubs. I don't believe the money for Fifita is going to decide the Titans fortunes.

 

[NSW stables]

Truthfully you forgot to mention they are unloadiing some overpaid duds like Boyd and Cartwright. Also, every team has bottom tier players. Every team has a millionaire player, or at least very very close. The difference for the Titans or any club with a 1.15m, or 1.1m, 1.0m or 950k player is NO DIFFERENCE other than (up to) 250k. When that difference is spread across the wage packets it's identical to the other 15 clubs. I don't believe the money for Fifita is going to decide the Titans fortunes.

Those millionaire players usually have a greater influence of the performance of the team as a collective (typically in the spine). Fifita is a very good player and may score some tries, but as a second rower his impact on the team performance would be less than a top quality half, fullback or hooker who makes players around them better.

But we can have this back and forth until our fingers bleed, i will not change your mind and i will not change mine in thinking spending that that amount of cash spent on a 2nd rower may be detrimental to the quality of the rest of their squad, so i will respectfully agree to disagree.

 

[Huge]

Those millionaire players usually have a greater influence of the performance of the team as a collective (typically in the spine). Fifita is a very good player and may score some tries, but as a second rower his impact on the team performance would be less than a top quality half, fullback or hooker who makes players around them better.

But we can have this back and forth until our fingers bleed, i will not change your mind and i will not change mine in thinking spending that that amount of cash spent on a 2nd rower may be detrimental to the quality of the rest of their squad, so i will respectfully agree to disagree.

Oh, so a completely different topic then. I am not sure what you're thinking has two ways to view it. I take exception to silly statements like 'the Titans have put all their eggs in the one basket' and other such nonsense statements.

The player which each club chooses to spend their top whack on doesn't matter. I'd agree most wouldn't spend it on a second rower, no matter how talented and I wouldn't either.

The only point I was making is that spending that sort of cash is not really that big of a deal because it really is a discussion about 400k and that's largely an irrelevance.

The fact they chose Fifita and not a spine player is a gamble but I think some other players, lesser lights might consider the Titans a much more attractive proposition with the chance to play alongside Fifita. It's not hard to imagine the Tits going better and getting greater exposure and if that happens in 21/22 other players might see it as a club going somewhere and a great place to live as well.

Fifita's signing is an experiment and results won't be in for a while. I'm waiting for the evidence before calling it a bad idea.

 

[Battler]

The Titans won't make the 8 for the duration of Fifi's contract. The hype they're receiving is unwarranted for a side that has a shit house spine and relies on throwing kids stupid cash.

We have our issues, but at least we have the ability (cap space) to sign crucial spine players over the next couple of years.

 

[broncsgoat]

The Titans won't make the 8 for the duration of Fifi's contract. The hype they're receiving is unwarranted for a side that has a shit house spine and relies on throwing kids stupid cash.

We have our issues, but at least we have the ability (cap space) to sign crucial spine players over the next couple of years.

To be honest I've been fairly impressed by them, but then again I'm used to us being at least competitive so perhaps they're just coming across as better because we are completely fucked thanks to pies.

 

[Huge]

The Titans won't make the 8 for the duration of Fifi's contract. The hype they're receiving is unwarranted for a side that has a shit house spine and relies on throwing kids stupid cash.

We have our issues, but at least we have the ability (cap space) to sign crucial spine players over the next couple of years.

How do you know this Mr Nostradamus? Over the next 1-2 years the Titans will also have big pay packets gone so they'll have cap space. In fact you'd have to think they probably have just as much cap space as we do. They'll be losing some dead weight and compared to ours ,Boyd, Milford, Bird they're not too bad off. You might want to believe they'll be unsuccessful but there's precious little evidence their future isn't better than ours presently.

 

[Sproj]

Taking the Titans woes for granted is fine for fans but lets hope the board isn't thinking that way. The Titans are definitely on the way up and have recruited well. Taylor will also not be $1 million next contract, they will say here is $500k, take it or leave it. He owes them and they will remind him of this, he hasn't come close to earning what he has been paid, not once.

So if you are organising their salary cap, you do something like this (and bear in mind I don't know what the base wage will be moving forward but let's say it is $150k and total cap is $10 million.

So, positions 20-30 - 150k = $1.65 million.
15-19 - 250k = $1 million
Regular first graders (including Taylor) 5-14 - $400k average = $4 million
Brimson, Tino + 1 star player = $2.1 million ($700k each)
Fifita - $1.25 million

So yes, Fifita is on a massively inflated contract but they can still put out an extremely competitive side around him as long as that +1 star player is a 9 or half and goodness knows who that should be but this shows strategic management of a cap as opposed to throwing hail maries at anyone with player options to boot.

 

[McHunt]

To be honest I've been fairly impressed by them, but then again I'm used to us being at least competitive so perhaps they're just coming across as better because we are completely fucked thanks to pies.

Imagine if they had Fifita, TPJ and Haas in their forward pack. They'd be unbeatable. Oh wait, that's us right now...

 

[Kooly87]

Taking the Titans woes for granted is fine for fans but lets hope the board isn't thinking that way. The Titans are definitely on the way up and have recruited well. Taylor will also not be $1 million next contract, they will say here is $500k, take it or leave it. He owes them and they will remind him of this, he hasn't come close to earning what he has been paid, not once.

So if you are organising their salary cap, you do something like this (and bear in mind I don't know what the base wage will be moving forward but let's say it is $150k and total cap is $10 million.

So, positions 20-30 - 150k = $1.65 million.
15-19 - 250k = $1 million
Regular first graders (including Taylor) 5-14 - $400k average = $4 million
Brimson, Tino + 1 star player = $2.1 million ($700k each)
Fifita - $1.25 million

So yes, Fifita is on a massively inflated contract but they can still put out an extremely competitive side around him as long as that +1 star player is a 9 or half and goodness knows who that should be but this shows strategic management of a cap as opposed to throwing hail maries at anyone with player options to boot.

For reference, the minimum wage was set at $100k in 2018 and was only ever scheduled for a $5k per year increase until at least 2022 (It's $110k this year BTW).

Very unlikely that number rises by any more than that in the forseeable future.

 

[Sproj]

For reference, the minimum wage was set at $100k in 2018 and was only ever scheduled for a $5k per year increase until at least 2022 (It's $110k this year BTW).

Very unlikely that number rises by any more than that in the forseeable future.

In which case, they have considerably more to spend on their main first team. Who cares about your 20-30, they should all be minimum wage journey men or up and comers. So even by 2022 (when Fifita's wage comes down anyway), that is an extra $25k per player 20-30 = $300k or under which you throw at that +1 star player. They are in a really good position moving ahead so long as they don't get injuries (the same boat as most clubs).

 

[Kooly87]

In which case, they have considerably more to spend on their main first team. Who cares about your 20-30, they should all be minimum wage journey men or up and comers. So even by 2022 (when Fifita's wage comes down anyway), that is an extra $25k per player 20-30 = $300k or under which you throw at that +1 star player. They are in a really good position moving ahead so long as they don't get injuries (the same boat as most clubs).

Yep, until you're like Brisbane in 2020 and the injury toll demands that all those 20-30 positions filled up by journeymen and kids become the core of your starting 17 week in week out.

 

[Super Freak]

We missed Milford.

He fucked up a couple of kicks last week, but for the most part he had a good game and was combining well with Dearden and Boyd. He's out, Croft comes in, and he shits the bed and our attack suffers as a result.

We likely wouldn't have won, but it would have been a closer game if Milford was playing.

 

[Morkel]

Last night, up until the 17th minute mark we had been penalised and had a number of 6 again calls (think it was 6 or 7 in total) go against us that were simply unexplainable. Now taking into account we are not exactly setting the place on fire with our structures and set plays there was no way Souths could have been totally error free for the same amount of time.

After seeing the bunker rule Lodge played at the ball in the captain's challenge I switched off. Like many other successful challenges Lodge was not looking at the ball and was simply trying to make a tackle. The bunker clown's call was "Lodge showed intention to strip the ball"!

So does that mean he never intentionally stripped the ball but he was looking like he was planning to? The doubt in the bunker's call suggests cognitive dissonance in the decision he's made and it was enough for me to call it quits on the latest installment of the - 2020 Duping the Broncos show .

The "50/50" call when the Souths player was pushed over the sideline was a howler - even the Souths player knew the ball was still in play and he was moving and in danger of going out as he managed to get the ball offloaded albeit a second too late as he was now touching the line. Any other game the ref would have ruled that play on.

I'm not about to go through every contentious call, I'd be here all day Christ. However, over the last 10 weeks we have been shafted quite comprehensively by both the ref and the bunker. The fact we can all see the obvious ones, and whinge about never getting the rub of the green on the 50/50 ones suggests there is more to it than just 'the way the game is'. If that is the case, if that is the way the game is now I'm looking seriously for another sport to follow.

I can see the player's frustrations. They know it's happening. To train your butt off all week and then be caned relentlessly for the first 20 minutes to ensure you're fatigued and unable to compete on a level playing field is doing their heads in.

Why the club is not supporting these boys and drawing the NRL's attention to what is an obvious anomaly is mind numbingly baffling. I know they don't want to give the younger players an excuse to not try by saying it's the poor reffing of the game and not you. They don't have to worry about that if they raise it once and make it very strongly (10K worth strongly) and then having said their piece move on.

The younger players could cop that and would be less inclined to feel defeated knowing they're in an us against them situation. It's what our club was built on for God's sake!

But for the club to say nothing week in and week out is unforgivable, and just another sad indictment of how clueless the front office is at present. It really is a case of young lions being led by meek donkeys.

I can see most of our young guns are trying, they need the front office to show them some much needed support and simply raise the stats with the NRL and ask for a 'please explain'. Until they take strong and conclusive action on this and then resolve how to get rid of the rogue fraudster who is masquerading as a head coach whose ideas are systematically ruining our playing roster I'm switching off from the whole shitshow for now.

Rant over!!

This. How could the ref possibly know "intent" in a potential stripping scenario, especially as the player is not looking anywhere near the ball, is looking to wrap around where the arm is, and continues on with the tackle with no idea the ball has actually been lost.

And don't get me started on the phantom "Escort" penalties, especially the one where our player is literally standing still and their runner runs in to him and milks it.

Or the two times where Dearden is hit late kicking. Both times they look like it could be high, as he goes toppling back off his feet, and of course Channel 9 do not show a single replay. Meanwhile TPJ hits Reynolds perfectly, legally, and safely, it is replayed 5 or 6 times including slow motion, and then Reynolds goes and has a sook to the refs.

We have enough things to drag our season down this year, it seems like the refereeing is just another thing we're struggling to overcome.

 

[Sproj]

Yep, until you're like Brisbane in 2020 and the injury toll demands that all those 20-30 positions filled up by journeymen and kids become the core of your starting 17 week in week out.

Well actually this isn't entirely true. It is partly true though but let me explain my point.

It is a huge issue if you are accessing your 25-30 in a squad and all squads will get there at some point during the season but if 20-30 are used, on any given Sunday, you are still going to have at least 10 of your regular starters on the field. If of those ten you have your star players (which Brisbane have mostly had other than bird), you are still going to have your structure and one or two game winners out there. So you still might well lose but you shouldn't be getting flogged.

The issue for the Broncos is many and varied and this is compounded by injuries but not caused by them. For the Broncos, their highly paid players have mostly all been out there still but there is no semblance of structure or willingness to compete in sight. Yes, many of these games would still have been lost but they should never have been floggings.

 

[lynx000]

Taking the Titans woes for granted is fine for fans but lets hope the board isn't thinking that way. The Titans are definitely on the way up and have recruited well. Taylor will also not be $1 million next contract, they will say here is $500k, take it or leave it. He owes them and they will remind him of this, he hasn't come close to earning what he has been paid, not once.

So if you are organising their salary cap, you do something like this (and bear in mind I don't know what the base wage will be moving forward but let's say it is $150k and total cap is $10 million.

So, positions 20-30 - 150k = $1.65 million.
15-19 - 250k = $1 million
Regular first graders (including Taylor) 5-14 - $400k average = $4 million
Brimson, Tino + 1 star player = $2.1 million ($700k each)
Fifita - $1.25 million

So yes, Fifita is on a massively inflated contract but they can still put out an extremely competitive side around him as long as that +1 star player is a 9 or half and goodness knows who that should be but this shows strategic management of a cap as opposed to throwing hail maries at anyone with player options to boot.

Can we please stop talking about the fucking titans unless it is on the relevant thread in the other section and not on a broncos thread? Not specifically accusing you, just making a general observation. I personally could not give three flying ***** about the titans and whether they are going to be successful and I don't particularly want to read about them.

 

[Big Pete]

The Lodge call was rough, but since it was ruled as a strip on the field, the footage did nothing to support him. It would have been one thing if his arm just knocked the ball loose, but he wrapped his arm around the ball and it happened to come loose as he forced his arm through the tackle. There wasn't enough evidence to clear him and if it had been sent up as a Souths knock on chances are it would have been over-turned as well.

You can't get too caught up with the referees when your team loses by 13+ but there were a few calls that did my head in. Namely the offside penalties deep inside Souths half. Either the team is that ill-disciplined that even with minimal line-speed they're somehow offside or the referees have a tip sheet and they're managing games based off of them. Go back and watch the first few minutes of the Wests game and try to convince me they weren't jumping the gun by a metre or three early in every set. The first time was a stitch up, the second time was blatant. Not even the official website knew who was offside so they gave it to Boyd when Atkins clearly said it was Turpin (for a second time, 'referee homework'). Sure enough, Souths get three penalties, kick a penalty goal, heads go down, Latrell makes a clean line-break and suddenly the Broncos are once again defending wave after wave of attack.

Again that doesn't excuse a 13+ loss but it's frustrating that right as the Broncos are gaining any sort of ascendency in the contest, it's taken away by three dodgy penalties.

 

[Dexter]

The Lodge call was rough, but since it was ruled as a strip on the field, the footage did nothing to support him. It would have been one thing if his arm just knocked the ball loose, but he wrapped his arm around the ball and it happened to come loose as he forced his arm through the tackle. There wasn't enough evidence to clear him and if it had been sent up as a Souths knock on chances are it would have been over-turned as well.

You can't get too caught up with the referees when your team loses by 13+ but there were a few calls that did my head in. Namely the offside penalties deep inside Souths half. Either the team is that ill-disciplined that even with minimal line-speed they're somehow offside or the referees have a tip sheet and they're managing games based off of them. Go back and watch the first few minutes of the Wests game and try to convince me they weren't jumping the gun by a metre or three early in every set. The first time was a stitch up, the second time was blatant. Not even the official website knew who was offside so they gave it to Boyd when Atkins clearly said it was Turpin (for a second time, 'referee homework'). Sure enough, Souths get three penalties, kick a penalty goal, heads go down and Latrell makes a clean line-break suddenly the Broncos are once again defending wave after wave of attack.

Again that doesn't excuse a 13+ loss but it's frustrating that right as the Broncos are gaining any sort of ascendency in the contest, it's taken away by three dodgy penalties.

You know things are crook when even the CM called it a referring stitch up

 

[Old Mate]

The Lodge call was rough, but since it was ruled as a strip on the field, the footage did nothing to support him. It would have been one thing if his arm just knocked the ball loose, but he wrapped his arm around the ball and it happened to come loose as he forced his arm through the tackle. There wasn't enough evidence to clear him and if it had been sent up as a Souths knock on chances are it would have been over-turned as well.

You can't get too caught up with the referees when your team loses by 13+ but there were a few calls that did my head in. Namely the offside penalties deep inside Souths half. Either the team is that ill-disciplined that even with minimal line-speed they're somehow offside or the referees have a tip sheet and they're managing games based off of them. Go back and watch the first few minutes of the Wests game and try to convince me they weren't jumping the gun by a metre or three early in every set. The first time was a stitch up, the second time was blatant. Not even the official website knew who was offside so they gave it to Boyd when Atkins clearly said it was Turpin (for a second time, 'referee homework'). Sure enough, Souths get three penalties, kick a penalty goal, heads go down and Latrell makes a clean line-break suddenly the Broncos are once again defending wave after wave of attack.

Again that doesn't excuse a 13+ loss but it's frustrating that right as the Broncos are gaining any sort of ascendency in the contest, it's taken away by three dodgy penalties.

Yep and nothing will ever be said by anyone.