POST GAME Round 14 - Raiders vs Broncos





Match Stats

Player Statistics

# Player T Pts TA LB TB OFF Ta MT IT Pos DR H PCM K KM M E P

Player Statistics

# Player T Pts TA LB TB OFF Ta MT IT Pos DR H PCM K KM M E P

Huge

State of Origin Captain
Mar 7, 2008
Threads
72
11,899
9,166
Oh no, quite the opposite. I think the NRL was quietly livid that there was so little they could do to force Cronulla's hand because unlike anyone else, they owned their own ground and all the prime real estate around it.

They had a monumental liquidity problem. At one point they literally had eight Admin staff including the GM and all of them were getting paid about $50k each. I can't explain how I know that much detail, but trust me, I know it.

When that development deal came through it screwed the NRL because I have no doubt they'd have loved them to go balls up so they could move the club elsewhere or hand out a new licence to someone else.

Now they're cashed up, I can't see them going anywhere, which must burn the powers at the NRL.
Finally! Someone who knows what they are talking about!
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
Oh no, quite the opposite. I think the NRL was quietly livid that there was so little they could do to force Cronulla's hand because unlike anyone else, they owned their own ground and all the prime real estate around it.

They had a monumental liquidity problem. At one point they literally had eight Admin staff including the GM and all of them were getting paid about $50k each. I can't explain how I know that much detail, but trust me, I know it.

When that development deal came through it screwed the NRL because I have no doubt they'd have loved them to go balls up so they could move the club elsewhere or hand out a new licence to someone else.

Now they're cashed up, I can't see them going anywhere, which must burn the powers at the NRL.
That's fascinating. So essentially being so entrenched in that region and established as a Rugby League club essentially gave them carte blanche to cheat?

This actually explains a lot, to be honest. It sounds like one of Scotty's "Mates" programs. In fact, it almost implies some sort of political connections/string pulling. Probably why it's so important to our PM to rub shoulders there.

So, I concede my point as to the why of the GF win, but swap it out for something that I need to flesh out a little further. Still dodgy as ****. No wonder there was a general sweeping of stuff away by Peter Dutton (Sports Minister at the time).

Does anyone know if there was some pressure coming from the other direction, i.e. from Cronulla/connections towards the NRL?
 

papabear

NYC Player
Nov 1, 2013
Threads
3
219
69
I don't buy into any 'conspiracy against the Broncos' as some sort of years long intentional sabotage by both internal and external sources so agree with pretty much all your posts on the subject.

However, this year in particular we have been on the rough end of some ref decisions and more so general ref intent to be overly harsh, the Manly game in particular where we were never given a fair go and to a lesser extent the Dragons game.

I believe it is not so much conspiratorial but more because we bend over and take it both during the game and post game. If we had a captain like C. Smith or any experienced respected captain like a Gallen, Cordner, DCE or even Gutho that can stop the game, plead our case and wake the ref up, sure we might not win that decision but would help us get leeway with the next half dozen calls.

Our home fans are also some of the most passive (or maybe just switched off due to ~2 years of shit performance) so home field advantage is the weakest in the league.

Post game Kevvie just seems happy to still have the coaching job so does not blow up about a ref decision that influences momentum in a game like a Sticky or Robinson would. Our board needs to back him to cop a fine and give them a spray.

In short, we are the easy beats of the league so a ref making a 50/50 call (or some cases 40/60 call) against us doesn't come back to bite them because 'its only the the Broncos, they lost by 30+ so a few bad decisions didn't matter'
I agree - but that happens to everyone. Even canberra we are copping more bad decisions this year then last where we got good decisions.

This has been going on in the NRL forever and tbh in most sports - the good thing for you I suppose is being a broncos fans you have never experienced this level of shittery both onfield performance, off field, officiating and everywhere else. As a canberra fan we have been on this rodeo many times before.
 

papabear

NYC Player
Nov 1, 2013
Threads
3
219
69
I agree about the business aspect, which is why it's important to shed some fans that will go to support the new Brisbane team. Imagine having 2x Brisbane's revenue instead of 1x or 1.2x. If Brisbane were winning, what would be the point of supporting a new, unproven team? It's like that meme: mum, can we have Brisbane2.0? We have Brisbane at home. Broncos.

Secondly, you're also right about a run of penalties coming home, or at least you would be, if the damage weren't already done. In fact, in most games Brisbane do receive such a string, but by that time, they are tired, mentally defeated and incapable of using them.

A string of 6-again calls early is enough to gain the ascendancy. The most games these days are won in the first 20 minutes or so. Furthermore, it's about timing. For example, a 6-again at the 30 on the 4th is far more advantageous than a 6-again anywhere on the 1st. For the most part, Broncos receive the latter and suffer the former.

Regarding fear in the middle, this is also true, but it was instilled since Rd2 2020.
being a raiders fans - most of our games are not won in the first 20 minutes or we would be close to top of the table. Though we are obviously an outlier - we have been on this sort of situation before.

The thing is the ref wont give a penalty against you if you get off quickly when he calls held or even release.

The ref wont give a penalty if you get your hands off the ball after the held call.

And so on and so forth - brisbane are at the bottom and have to decide how they are going to play it - slowing shit down and risking penalties is a reasonable approach - but that doesnt make it a conspiracy.
 

papabear

NYC Player
Nov 1, 2013
Threads
3
219
69
That's fascinating. So essentially being so entrenched in that region and established as a Rugby League club essentially gave them carte blanche to cheat?

This actually explains a lot, to be honest. It sounds like one of Scotty's "Mates" programs. In fact, it almost implies some sort of political connections/string pulling. Probably why it's so important to our PM to rub shoulders there.

So, I concede my point as to the why of the GF win, but swap it out for something that I need to flesh out a little further. Still dodgy as ****. No wonder there was a general sweeping of stuff away by Peter Dutton (Sports Minister at the time).

Does anyone know if there was some pressure coming from the other direction, i.e. from Cronulla/connections towards the NRL?
this is next level conspiracy theory stuff....
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
being a raiders fans - most of our games are not won in the first 20 minutes or we would be close to top of the table. Though we are obviously an outlier - we have been on this sort of situation before.

The thing is the ref wont give a penalty against you if you get off quickly when he calls held or even release.

The ref wont give a penalty if you get your hands off the ball after the held call.

And so on and so forth - brisbane are at the bottom and have to decide how they are going to play it - slowing shit down and risking penalties is a reasonable approach - but that doesnt make it a conspiracy.
This is true, if the refs were in any way consistent. Laying on a player, flopping, hand on the ball, interfering in the ruck is all very subjective, and without stopping the play cannot be contested.

It's easy for you to hand wave away a lot of it as bias, and sure, I am, but having seen the shift in the game affect a lot more teams over the past year it has reinforced my belief.

Looking back at the start rd 3 of 2020, the Broncos were the Guinea Pigs. First game each round, first to cop the worst of the calls before moderation through the later games of the rounds.

I suppose, I could essentially hand wave your opinion as your bias, but I believe that each game should be looked at individually, then on the whole. As I have shown you, based on play by play reviews, the Broncos tend to be heavily penalised early in matches, resulting in a roll-on effect.

If penalties are more evenly shared throughout this early period, the effects may be the result of other factors. BUT, in games where the Broncos are heavily penalised early, they lose heavily. Saying "don't have hands on the ball, you won't get a penalty" is proven false when it is ignored for 90% of the game.

The games where Broncos have not had this early punishment, they have shown promise. The question is WHO is being inconsistent? In viewing two different matches one after the other, it becomes evident that the refereeing is not consistent, and unfortunately it's typically to the detriment of the Broncos. Particularly last year, where the psychological damage was done.

Heck, look at the start of a half compared to the end of the half, the reffing is very inconsistent. Penalties that were given in the first half are ignored in the second half. I am honestly just asking for consistency, and that's not something that we have seen even when we win.

Hetherington sent off but Radley stays on? I don't think this is fair.
this is next level conspiracy theory stuff....
and? give me a better explanation... because the one we currently have is pretty bad. Furthermore, the more information we get regarding this, the more it looks like a good ol' coverup.

Also, Sports Rorts sound familiar? Track records can go further back than we know.
 

Morkel

International Captain
Forum Staff
Jan 25, 2013
Threads
292
22,763
21,555
That's fascinating. So essentially being so entrenched in that region and established as a Rugby League club essentially gave them carte blanche to cheat?

This actually explains a lot, to be honest. It sounds like one of Scotty's "Mates" programs. In fact, it almost implies some sort of political connections/string pulling. Probably why it's so important to our PM to rub shoulders there.

So, I concede my point as to the why of the GF win, but swap it out for something that I need to flesh out a little further. Still dodgy as ****. No wonder there was a general sweeping of stuff away by Peter Dutton (Sports Minister at the time).

Does anyone know if there was some pressure coming from the other direction, i.e. from Cronulla/connections towards the NRL?

Absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Sharks number one supporter also happened to be one of footy's most powerful journalists.
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
Actually, Scummo was National treasurer at that time. Bloody hell. I was kinda joking at first, but jeez... he's got a bit of form. The whole sports funding program was established while Scotty was treasurer.

AND Scotty is friends with Former (sold 2019) Bluestone Capital owner, property developer AND saviour of Cronulla Sharks, Steve Grant. WTF!? (This is evidenced by Steve Grant posting on Scummos FB under Christina Grant's account)

@mods could we please move this to the conspiracy thread? fml
 

GCBRONCO

International Rep
Mar 4, 2008
Threads
273
15,559
11,052
True ... the Broncos effectively wiped out Wests, Valleys and Brothers.

However, the principle still remains.
Not entirely accurate. Brothers were already in financial trouble before the Broncos entered the competition and would have likely died anyway, infact things weren't bright for the future of the competition regardless of if the Broncos came about. Many of the star players had either left to join the NSWRL or like Wally Lewis were fed up with QRL's refusal of a Brisbane based NSWRL team were going to head down south if a Brisbane side didn't enter the NSWRL competition.
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
The broncos being terrible has cooked some brains on here.

Fucking hell.

Rabbitohs 20+
hahaha dude, honestly it feels like it, eh. I am normally pretty rational, but the number of fingers in pies here is just whack.

Also, pretty much agree with your scoreline prediction.
 

1910

State of Origin Captain
Apr 14, 2013
Threads
157
9,449
8,239
True ... the Broncos effectively wiped out Wests, Valleys and Brothers.

However, the principle still remains.

That has no relevance at all. The BRL clubs voted for the Broncos. They only wanted one team.
 

Cult

State of Origin Captain
Oct 17, 2013
Threads
126
10,774
9,962
being a raiders fans - most of our games are not won in the first 20 minutes or we would be close to top of the table. Though we are obviously an outlier - we have been on this sort of situation before.

The thing is the ref wont give a penalty against you if you get off quickly when he calls held or even release.

The ref wont give a penalty if you get your hands off the ball after the held call.

And so on and so forth - brisbane are at the bottom and have to decide how they are going to play it - slowing shit down and risking penalties is a reasonable approach - but that doesnt make it a conspiracy.
Next you'll be telling us the ref won't send a player off for being 40 metres onside..

The problem isn't necessarily the penalties given, even though they're more often than not bullshit, but the penalties not given. There's no way teams aren't as bad as us in getting onside or off the play the ball. We get laid on all game and teams move up wayyyy faster than they do against other teams. There's no disputing we are getting bent over by the refs, whilst also being terrible at the same time. Anndddd I just realized who I engaged with...
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
Next you'll be telling us the ref won't send a player off for being 40 metres onside..

The problem isn't necessarily the penalties given, even though they're more often than not bullshit, but the penalties not given. There's no way teams aren't as bad as us in getting onside or off the play the ball. We get laid on all game and teams move up wayyyy faster than they do against other teams. There's no disputing we are getting bent over by the refs, whilst also being terrible at the same time. Anndddd I just realized who I engaged with...
another excellent point

wait, who is this papabear guy?
 

Kooly87

NRL Captain
Jun 2, 2017
Threads
5
3,986
6,923
That's fascinating. So essentially being so entrenched in that region and established as a Rugby League club essentially gave them carte blanche to cheat?

This actually explains a lot, to be honest. It sounds like one of Scotty's "Mates" programs. In fact, it almost implies some sort of political connections/string pulling. Probably why it's so important to our PM to rub shoulders there.

So, I concede my point as to the why of the GF win, but swap it out for something that I need to flesh out a little further. Still dodgy as ****. No wonder there was a general sweeping of stuff away by Peter Dutton (Sports Minister at the time).

Does anyone know if there was some pressure coming from the other direction, i.e. from Cronulla/connections towards the NRL?
I think you're probably overstating the pull the club has. They're reasonably cashed up now by Sydney club standards, but they're still far from a big business or even particularly cashed up as sporting clubs go.

It's just much harder for the NRL to move a club on when they have a healthy balance sheet and money in the bank. 10 years ago that was absolutely not the case, but a development deal comes through and those problems go away. I guess you might be able to draw a long bow about political support to get development pushed through, which absolutely does happen in NSW, but that's hardly unique to Cronulla. If a developer wants to make things happen around Sydney they almost always can. Cronulla just happened to be the one that owned the land this time around.

The 'non cap cheating' in the only year they were successful is highly suspect, but if the NRL were in on it then it almost certainly doesn't fit in with the way the NRL has viewed the Sharks for most of their recent existence where they would undoubtedly have preferred for the club to be forced to move or fold. I see very little reason why they would want them to succeed now.
 

Organix

NRL Player
Sep 19, 2012
Threads
4
2,173
2,098
I think you're probably overstating the pull the club has. They're reasonably cashed up now by Sydney club standards, but they're still far from a big business or even particularly cashed up as sporting clubs go.

It's just much harder for the NRL to move a club on when they have a healthy balance sheet and money in the bank. 10 years ago that was absolutely not the case, but a development deal comes through and those problems go away. I guess you might be able to draw a long bow about political support to get development pushed through, which absolutely does happen in NSW, but that's hardly unique to Cronulla. If a developer wants to make things happen around Sydney they almost always can. Cronulla just happened to be the one that owned the land this time around.

The 'non cap cheating' in the only year they were successful is highly suspect, but if the NRL were in on it then it almost certainly doesn't fit in with the way the NRL has viewed the Sharks for most of their recent existence where they would undoubtedly have preferred for the club to be forced to move or fold. I see very little reason why they would want them to succeed now.

Definitely some dodgy stuff going on in shark country
 
Team P W L PD Pts
19 17 2 465 36
19 16 3 305 34
19 16 3 231 34
19 13 6 189 28
19 13 6 146 28
18 11 7 151 24
18 8 10 -40 18
19 8 11 -82 18
19 8 11 -82 18
19 8 11 -147 18
18 7 11 -52 16
19 6 13 -129 14
19 6 13 -152 14
19 6 13 -226 14
19 5 14 -247 12
18 2 16 -330 6

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