Round 14 - Raiders vs Broncos

I think I read it a while ago - but to be honest it was not in slightest bit persuasive.

First you are the one with your theory you are promoting - if you want it to be taken seriously you prove it right.

In terms of the raiders and almost all teams this year - you tend to get reffed with momentum when your on top and then the losing team gets a bit of charity reffing.

The raiders have been run down by bog ordinary teams this year - see us verse the knights in about round 9 or 10 - up easy with momentum.

Momentum turns we turn into butter and roll over like a pet fluffy dog as they get calls and everything that goes with momentum. Kind of like how you guys went last year in that you were in or winning a lot of games and then adversity comes and you go to shit. We have done a lot of that this year - even the panthers we were looking good after 30 minutes only for it all to go a steaming pile of shit quickly.

What I am saying is from a raiders fans perspective after thirty minutes - you started getting quite a few calls and things go your way (the call that led to the second try, kick off out on the full, there was a play were you knocked it on twice with about 15 to go and you got the feed, to rapanas last try being disallowed for pushing off a bloke who was clearly holding his jersey without the ball) - you got those calls and others with only a little bit of momentum (in fact for the most pert you were still losing the contact / yardage / enthusiasm battle).

If you think the NRL has a fix now - did it have a fix when the broncos were successful?

Is the NRL the reason the tigers / dogs have been shit?

Quite frankly, for commercial reason clubs like the broncos are helping the NRL more when they are successful - the less strategically important clubs like:-
- Nqld
- Canberra
- NZ
- Penrith
- Newcastle
- Sharks

who put less eyeballs on tv when they are good compared to the broncos / storm /eels / bunnies / dogs / dragons

but as you can see bigger market teams and smaller market teams are all over the table.

IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit - potentially other things in your lie havent gone to shit as well, thus you have difficulty processing the reality that is the broncos are shit - because they are worse then 14 or 15 other teams out there. As opposed to the more happier theory in your mind that the broncos are good but the NRL and vlandys are holding them back.

Take this is as an opportunity to both grow as a person and a rugby league fan and support your team whilst acknowledging what they are doing wrong on what they can control.

Dont get me wrong though bad ref performances can impact teams and seasons - every fan will have multiple stories ( i still havent process a game against the dragons from about 20 years ago) but that is just a bad ref performance like a bad player performance.

If refs are going to have an agenda or be more lazy on certain teams they sure as shit arent going to do it on the NRLs premier club.
 
papabear said:
I think I read it a while ago - but to be honest it was not in slightest bit persuasive.

First you are the one with your theory you are promoting - if you want it to be taken seriously you prove it right.

In terms of the raiders and almost all teams this year - you tend to get reffed with momentum when your on top and then the losing team gets a bit of charity reffing.

The raiders have been run down by bog ordinary teams this year - see us verse the knights in about round 9 or 10 - up easy with momentum.

Momentum turns we turn into butter and roll over like a pet fluffy dog as they get calls and everything that goes with momentum. Kind of like how you guys went last year in that you were in or winning a lot of games and then adversity comes and you go to shit. We have done a lot of that this year - even the panthers we were looking good after 30 minutes only for it all to go a steaming pile of shit quickly.

What I am saying is from a raiders fans perspective after thirty minutes - you started getting quite a few calls and things go your way (the call that led to the second try, kick off out on the full, there was a play were you knocked it on twice with about 15 to go and you got the feed, to rapanas last try being disallowed for pushing off a bloke who was clearly holding his jersey without the ball) - you got those calls and others with only a little bit of momentum (in fact for the most pert you were still losing the contact / yardage / enthusiasm battle).

If you think the NRL has a fix now - did it have a fix when the broncos were successful?

Is the NRL the reason the tigers / dogs have been shit?

Quite frankly, for commercial reason clubs like the broncos are helping the NRL more when they are successful - the less strategically important clubs like:-
- Nqld
- Canberra
- NZ
- Penrith
- Newcastle
- Sharks

who put less eyeballs on tv when they are good compared to the broncos / storm /eels / bunnies / dogs / dragons

but as you can see bigger market teams and smaller market teams are all over the table.

IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit - potentially other things in your lie havent gone to shit as well, thus you have difficulty processing the reality that is the broncos are shit - because they are worse then 14 or 15 other teams out there. As opposed to the more happier theory in your mind that the broncos are good but the NRL and vlandys are holding them back.

Take this is as an opportunity to both grow as a person and a rugby league fan and support your team whilst acknowledging what they are doing wrong on what they can control.

Dont get me wrong though bad ref performances can impact teams and seasons - every fan will have multiple stories ( i still havent process a game against the dragons from about 20 years ago) but that is just a bad ref performance like a bad player performance.

If refs are going to have an agenda or be more lazy on certain teams they sure as shit arent going to do it on the NRLs premier club.
Click to expand...
In other words, you haven't addressed any of the FACTS I've posted in the article. Because you can't. Everything I've written is irrefutable and proves the controlled demolition of the Broncos to make way for the second Queensland team.

You write the post "not in slightest bit persuasive" and then ramble on about absolute garbage. Too very, very pathetic.
 
papabear said:
I think I read it a while ago - but to be honest it was not in slightest bit persuasive.

First you are the one with your theory you are promoting - if you want it to be taken seriously you prove it right.

In terms of the raiders and almost all teams this year - you tend to get reffed with momentum when your on top and then the losing team gets a bit of charity reffing.

The raiders have been run down by bog ordinary teams this year - see us verse the knights in about round 9 or 10 - up easy with momentum.

Momentum turns we turn into butter and roll over like a pet fluffy dog as they get calls and everything that goes with momentum. Kind of like how you guys went last year in that you were in or winning a lot of games and then adversity comes and you go to shit. We have done a lot of that this year - even the panthers we were looking good after 30 minutes only for it all to go a steaming pile of shit quickly.

What I am saying is from a raiders fans perspective after thirty minutes - you started getting quite a few calls and things go your way (the call that led to the second try, kick off out on the full, there was a play were you knocked it on twice with about 15 to go and you got the feed, to rapanas last try being disallowed for pushing off a bloke who was clearly holding his jersey without the ball) - you got those calls and others with only a little bit of momentum (in fact for the most pert you were still losing the contact / yardage / enthusiasm battle).

If you think the NRL has a fix now - did it have a fix when the broncos were successful?

Is the NRL the reason the tigers / dogs have been shit?

Quite frankly, for commercial reason clubs like the broncos are helping the NRL more when they are successful - the less strategically important clubs like:-
- Nqld
- Canberra
- NZ
- Penrith
- Newcastle
- Sharks

who put less eyeballs on tv when they are good compared to the broncos / storm /eels / bunnies / dogs / dragons

but as you can see bigger market teams and smaller market teams are all over the table.

IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit - potentially other things in your lie havent gone to shit as well, thus you have difficulty processing the reality that is the broncos are shit - because they are worse then 14 or 15 other teams out there. As opposed to the more happier theory in your mind that the broncos are good but the NRL and vlandys are holding them back.

Take this is as an opportunity to both grow as a person and a rugby league fan and support your team whilst acknowledging what they are doing wrong on what they can control.

Dont get me wrong though bad ref performances can impact teams and seasons - every fan will have multiple stories ( i still havent process a game against the dragons from about 20 years ago) but that is just a bad ref performance like a bad player performance.

If refs are going to have an agenda or be more lazy on certain teams they sure as shit arent going to do it on the NRLs premier club.
Click to expand...

Quote: "IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit."

I find when people are bereft of any ability to debate or discuss on topic, they resort to personal attacks and supposition about something they know nothing about. In your case, you don't know me and you obviously don't know psychology.

Quote: "Take this is as an opportunity to both grow as a person and a rugby league fan and support your team whilst acknowledging what they are doing wrong on what they can control."

Who the hell do you think you are. Again - bereft of anything intelligent to add - so resorting to personal attacks.
 
PineappleHead said:
Quote: "IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit."

I find when people are bereft of any ability to debate or discuss on topic, they resort to personal attacks and supposition about something they know nothing about. In your case, you don't know me and you obviously don't know psychology.
Click to expand...
To be entirely fair to him, he's correct to presume you absolutely have not experienced the Broncos being shit at this level before because it's literally never happened before so it would be physically impossible for any of us to have done so.
 
Kooly87 said:
To be entirely fair to him, he's correct to presume you absolutely have not experienced the Broncos being shit at this level before because it's literally never happened before so it would be physically impossible for any of us to have done so.
Click to expand...

So what? I've experienced loss in my life in many other areas - doesn't change the facts that the Broncos are getting screwed.
 
papabear said:
I think I read it a while ago - but to be honest it was not in slightest bit persuasive.

First you are the one with your theory you are promoting - if you want it to be taken seriously you prove it right.

In terms of the raiders and almost all teams this year - you tend to get reffed with momentum when your on top and then the losing team gets a bit of charity reffing.

The raiders have been run down by bog ordinary teams this year - see us verse the knights in about round 9 or 10 - up easy with momentum.

Momentum turns we turn into butter and roll over like a pet fluffy dog as they get calls and everything that goes with momentum. Kind of like how you guys went last year in that you were in or winning a lot of games and then adversity comes and you go to shit. We have done a lot of that this year - even the panthers we were looking good after 30 minutes only for it all to go a steaming pile of shit quickly.

What I am saying is from a raiders fans perspective after thirty minutes - you started getting quite a few calls and things go your way (the call that led to the second try, kick off out on the full, there was a play were you knocked it on twice with about 15 to go and you got the feed, to rapanas last try being disallowed for pushing off a bloke who was clearly holding his jersey without the ball) - you got those calls and others with only a little bit of momentum (in fact for the most pert you were still losing the contact / yardage / enthusiasm battle).

If you think the NRL has a fix now - did it have a fix when the broncos were successful?

Is the NRL the reason the tigers / dogs have been shit?

Quite frankly, for commercial reason clubs like the broncos are helping the NRL more when they are successful - the less strategically important clubs like:-
- Nqld
- Canberra
- NZ
- Penrith
- Newcastle
- Sharks

who put less eyeballs on tv when they are good compared to the broncos / storm /eels / bunnies / dogs / dragons

but as you can see bigger market teams and smaller market teams are all over the table.

IMO the big problem with your perspective is you havent experienced the broncos being shit - potentially other things in your lie havent gone to shit as well, thus you have difficulty processing the reality that is the broncos are shit - because they are worse then 14 or 15 other teams out there. As opposed to the more happier theory in your mind that the broncos are good but the NRL and vlandys are holding them back.

Take this is as an opportunity to both grow as a person and a rugby league fan and support your team whilst acknowledging what they are doing wrong on what they can control.

Dont get me wrong though bad ref performances can impact teams and seasons - every fan will have multiple stories ( i still havent process a game against the dragons from about 20 years ago) but that is just a bad ref performance like a bad player performance.

If refs are going to have an agenda or be more lazy on certain teams they sure as shit arent going to do it on the NRLs premier club.
Click to expand...
I think we could find reasons for some teams to be having success, where others do not. But first, let us take a look at the play by play against Canberra for the Broncos. Within the first 20 min there were 6 penalties or 6-agains against the Broncos vs 1 against raiders. This amounts to hard defensive work early. Raiders have more energy to attack, Broncos lose more early. The result is similar to running hill-sprints at the start of a Marathon. Broncos didn't help themselves by holding the ball when they had it, but psychologically it's the same old story for Broncos players.

It might be argued that they only have themselves to blame, but when it happens every week, it becomes less likely. Against the Roosters it was not the case and we beat them.

Raiders aren't that good a side, that's true, but if they were not given so much early ball, the game would not have been a blowout.

To your point about other teams: this is actually an aid to the targeting argument against the Broncos as you are seeing a fair representation of the quality of the teams with some bad reffing and some good reffing and less psychological effects.

Melbourne will continue to do well, because the NRL needs a strong team in AFL heartland. Cronulla conveniently won a Premiership in the one year they weren't cheating, just as their club was floundering financially and on the brink of collapse.

You are right, we aren't used to being shit because we have always had first pick of the bunch of good QLD talent, and we still do. But now a new Brisbane team is planned and all of a sudden Broncos turn to shit? When the Titans started they struggled for fans, they still do to an extent, but success helps. Similarly the Crushers, they could never compete with the Broncos when they came to join. They collapsed.

edit:
In the end, the NRL is a business. It was inevitable that it would turn out like this. It just took the Broncos losing like this for me to realise that.
 
This goes right back to when the NSWRL (as it was back then) through their arrogance, granted only one license for a Brisbane club. They should have granted two or three.

Back then, the NSWRL considered themselves rugby league gods. Every year, NSW flogged Qld in interstate football. Rugby League Week would dedicate two pages of its 50-odd to the Brisbane league.

The NSWRL considered Brisbane a rugby league back-water, and due to their arrogance, created a monster (Brisbane Broncos).

Over 30 years later, when the financial strain of COVD19 hit, they took the opportunity to begin correcting the error of the the NSWRL and ensure that the one or two extra Brisbane teams had every chance of success. Because now - it was about ensuring the financial viability of the league - and Vlandys is willing to sacrifice short term profit for long-term gain.

As a man connected with the shady world of horse racing, Vladys is fully capable of dirty dealing, and in hindsight, I can now see why he was so determined to get the NRL back on track after the original lockdown. He had a plan he needed to deploy.
 
Kooly87 said:
To be entirely fair to him, he's correct to presume you absolutely have not experienced the Broncos being shit at this level before because it's literally never happened before so it would be physically impossible for any of us to have done so.
Click to expand...
We have though. We have won sfa in 15 years. We were freaking awful in the Henjak/Steve Michaels era.
 
Organix said:
I think we could find reasons for some teams to be having success, where others do not. But first, let us take a look at the play by play against Canberra for the Broncos. Within the first 20 min there were 6 penalties or 6-agains against the Broncos vs 1 against raiders. This amounts to hard defensive work early. Raiders have more energy to attack, Broncos lose more early. The result is similar to running hill-sprints at the start of a Marathon. Broncos didn't help themselves by holding the ball when they had it, but psychologically it's the same old story for Broncos players.

It might be argued that they only have themselves to blame, but when it happens every week, it becomes less likely. Against the Roosters it was not the case and we beat them.

Raiders aren't that good a side, that's true, but if they were not given so much early ball, the game would not have been a blowout.

To your point about other teams: this is actually an aid to the targeting argument against the Broncos as you are seeing a fair representation of the quality of the teams with some bad reffing and some good reffing and less psychological effects.

Melbourne will continue to do well, because the NRL needs a strong team in AFL heartland. Cronulla conveniently won a Premiership in the one year they weren't cheating, just as their club was floundering financially and on the brink of collapse.

You are right, we aren't used to being shit because we have always had first pick of the bunch of good QLD talent, and we still do. But now a new Brisbane team is planned and all of a sudden Broncos turn to shit? When the Titans started they struggled for fans, they still do to an extent, but success helps. Similarly the Crushers, they could never compete with the Broncos when they came to join. They collapsed.

edit:
In the end, the NRL is a business. It was inevitable that it would turn out like this. It just took the Broncos losing like this for me to realise that.
Click to expand...
Most of your content is on the money but I do think you might not know some of the facts about Cronulla. Floundering financially and on the brink of collapse isn't exactly accurate. Cronulla did have a cash flow problem but unlike other clubs Cronulla owned it's grounds and a huge parcel of adjacent land and was actually asset rich but as I said, cash poor for a time.

They were never any chance of going under. In other words it only looked dire from the outside. That's according to my closest friend, born in the Shire and former team mate of ET and a lower grader for the Sharks. He has long connections and has inside the walls insight. Anyway, he could be wrong but I believe him. That doesn't make it fact though!
 
Huge said:
Most of your content is on the money but I do think you might not know some of the facts about Cronulla. Floundering financially and on the brink of collapse isn't exactly accurate. Cronulla did have a cash flow problem but unlike other clubs Cronulla owned it's grounds and a huge parcel of adjacent land and was actually asset rich but as I said, cash poor for a time.

They were never any chance of going under. In other words it only looked dire from the outside. That's according to my closest friend, born in the Shire and former team mate of ET and a lower grader for the Sharks. He has long connections and has inside the walls insight. Anyway, he could be wrong but I believe him. That doesn't make it fact though!
Click to expand...
Thanks, Huge. Yeah, sorry, I was going from memory and the meager research I did at the time. I remember reading a bit about financial strife, die hard fans and how they deserved a premiership for Gallen. In any case, it all seemed rather scripted to me and VERY convenient that 2016 was the ONLY year between 2 others where they were salary cap compliant AND they had to somehow erase the shame of the peptide scandal. I mean, come on....

edit: could you ask him for insight on the backdated suspensions? I never understood that... not at all.
 
Huge said:
Most of your content is on the money but I do think you might not know some of the facts about Cronulla. Floundering financially and on the brink of collapse isn't exactly accurate. Cronulla did have a cash flow problem but unlike other clubs Cronulla owned it's grounds and a huge parcel of adjacent land and was actually asset rich but as I said, cash poor for a time.

They were never any chance of going under. In other words it only looked dire from the outside. That's according to my closest friend, born in the Shire and former team mate of ET and a lower grader for the Sharks. He has long connections and has inside the walls insight. Anyway, he could be wrong but I believe him. That doesn't make it fact though!
Click to expand...
just to follow up, Huge, I think I conflated the membership numbers of Cronulla with financial success. That being said, they are pretty low on membership numbers. Typically bottom 4 of all clubs. That seems to me to be something the NRL would want to rise. I would actually like to see membership numbers vs club performance over time and look at the correlation.
 
Organix said:
Thanks, Huge. Yeah, sorry, I was going from memory and the meager research I did at the time. I remember reading a bit about financial strife, die hard fans and how they deserved a premiership for Gallen. In any case, it all seemed rather scripted to me and VERY convenient that 2016 was the ONLY year between 2 others where they were salary cap compliant AND they had to somehow erase the shame of the peptide scandal. I mean, come on....

edit: could you ask him for insight on the backdated suspensions? I never understood that... not at all.
Click to expand...
Yes, there was much left unsaid about salary caps and drugs. I don't think we need to rehash too much especially about the publics perception and knowledge of events but I think that people should read between the lines a little. By that I mean they should be asking 'why was the punishment apparently so lenient?' . Naturally most will lean towards a conspiracy/favouritism based explanation but I believe the reasons are more complicated.

In my mind (after talking at length with my buddy) the NRL carried more fault or had more to hide than most understood. No, I don't have any knowledge and yes, it's just my opinion. Despite what many think Cronulla is very definitely NOT beloved by the NRL ( the Nswrl ) The club was always an outsider and like us, never treated well and unlike St George up the road who were always looked after. They were further alienated after defecting to Super League. The Nswrl never forgave that so people should consider this when making claims that the Nswrl/ NRL are buddybuddy with Cronulla.

I believe Cronulla held a trump card of sorts and the NRL punished them as severely as they dared. Whether that was fair or not is not my call. I simply accept it because I am not privy to all the information.
 
Huge said:
Yes, there was much left unsaid about salary caps and drugs. I don't think we need to rehash too much especially about the publics perception and knowledge of events but I think that people should read between the lines a little. By that I mean they should be asking 'why was the punishment apparently so lenient?' . Naturally most will lean towards a conspiracy/favouritism based explanation but I believe the reasons are more complicated.

In my mind (after talking at length with my buddy) the NRL carried more fault or had more to hide than most understood. No, I don't have any knowledge and yes, it's just my opinion. Despite what many think Cronulla is very definitely NOT beloved by the NRL ( the Nswrl ) The club was always an outsider and like us, never treated well and unlike St George up the road who were always looked after. They were further alienated after defecting to Super League. The Nswrl never forgave that so people should consider this when making claims that the Nswrl/ NRL are buddybuddy with Cronulla.

I believe Cronulla held a trump card of sorts and the NRL punished them as severely as they dared. Whether that was fair or not is not my call. I simply accept it because I am not privy to all the information.
Click to expand...

Huge: People should base their opinions on evidence, not bias or a pre-conceived opinion that they are trying to bolster with selective information.

Also Huge: I think we need to read between the lines regarding the Sharks... despite no knowledge, in my mind the NRL carried more fault or had more to hide...

Stop taking the piss, your opinion is so tarnished on this subject that you can't even stick to your own mantra that you constantly shove down people's throats whenever you disagree with them.
 
Morkel said:
Huge: People should base their opinions on evidence, not bias or a pre-conceived opinion that they are trying to bolster with selective information.

Also Huge: I think we need to read between the lines regarding the Sharks... despite no knowledge, in my mind the NRL carried more fault or had more to hide...

Stop taking the piss, your opinion is so tarnished on this subject that you can't even stick to your own mantra that you constantly shove down people's throats whenever you disagree with them.
Click to expand...
Really not sure what you're banging on about. Pre-conceived opinion? Based their opinions on evidence?

My opinions are based on evidence. The quality of evidence is a different question but evidence nevertheless. Some of your claims have the flimsiest evidence of all. There's no evidence at all that magic is real yet you swear by it.

Really? You, of all the people on this forum think you need evidence before you can have an opinion? Let's not go to what you 'believe without evidence ' !!!!😳
 
Morkel said:
Huge: People should base their opinions on evidence, not bias or a pre-conceived opinion that they are trying to bolster with selective information.

Also Huge: I think we need to read between the lines regarding the Sharks... despite no knowledge, in my mind the NRL carried more fault or had more to hide...

Stop taking the piss, your opinion is so tarnished on this subject that you can't even stick to your own mantra that you constantly shove down people's throats whenever you disagree with them.
Click to expand...
So now I'm being tag-teamed by forum staff telling me what I can post and what I can't. Why not make a general announcement then, DON'T POST ANYTHING UNLESS YOU HAVE EVIDENCE.

Apply this forum wide.
 
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