[Round 19, 2021] Panthers vs Broncos

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Huge said:
Gee, you are well suited in your employment. You want to talk about what you believe happened in a game and I was discussing his attributes. He's the best defender of any halfback we've had in years. You're just smart enough to be a cop. Just.
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Hmm. Strong argument you have there…

Really well supported by ad hominem and neatly countered my points about his rubbish defence as exemplified by his shooting out of the line, thus creating huge defensive holes and his general arm grabbing technique, not uncommon within our entire team I agree, but he is not excused by this point in my opinion.

Perhaps next you’ll strengthen your argument further with some point or other, about me personally you like to describe as ‘bent’? Another really solid debating point, given you know virtually nothing about me and have not a single shred of evidence to support your claim. But that is your style afterall…

Top shelf stuff old boy.
 
Sproj said:
I feel for people who come into this thread to read interesting discussion about the team for this coming week and get Groundhog Day discussions with @Huge. These going round in circles discussions are just so boring and annoying.
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I assure you it's been much easier the last few years with certain people on "ignore".

Now I usually just see one person arguing with themselves!
 
Huge said:
Okay then. Who IS the best defensive halback in the competition?

You're so sure Croft is a bad defender and that implies you know who or what is a good defender so, who are the top three?
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For starters, I never said if Croft is a good or bad defender, I simply stated that you using tackle efficiency as the catalyst for your argument is completely foolish, as it was the last time you tried it.

Haven't looked at any numbers, but in my opinion the best halves defensively at the moment are Dylan Brown, Daly Cherry-Evans & Nathan Cleary. They're all forced to do a lot of defensive work each game by the opposition and in my humble opinion are the most technically proficient & least likely to make incorrect defensive decisions.
 
Huge said:
Okay then. Who IS the best defensive halback in the competition?

You're so sure Croft is a bad defender and that implies you know who or what is a good defender so, who are the top three?
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Lachlan Lewis ;). I'm only half joking. He sits down big boppers very effectively - TPJ twice in one game. I'm sure you can find missed tackle stats for him because he goes looking for defensive work - saved his team mates many times. He even tackled Cody Walker at half time.
 
K-Style said:
Lachlan Lewis ;). I'm only half joking. He sits down big boppers very effectively - TPJ twice in one game. I'm sure you can find missed tackle stats for him because he goes looking for defensive work - saved his team mates many times. He even tackled Cody Walker at half time.
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Liked your post but was conflicted as I also wanted to Lol at this part!
 
Unbreakable said:
For starters, I never said if Croft is a good or bad defender, I simply stated that you using tackle efficiency as the catalyst for your argument is completely foolish, as it was the last time you tried it.

Haven't looked at any numbers, but in my opinion the best halves defensively at the moment are Dylan Brown, Daly Cherry-Evans & Nathan Cleary. They're all forced to do a lot of defensive work each game by the opposition and in my humble opinion are the most technically proficient & least likely to make incorrect defensive decisions.
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If @Huge’s point about tackling efficiency were the sum of how “defence was measured” we’d have astronomical miss-tackle counts per game, because technically every time a ball carrier was tackled by 1 or 2 players in a defensive line, you’d have the situation where 12 or 11 players have technically “missed” the tackle by virtue of simply not being in the right place to make said tackle.

Which means we’d have 11-12x (assuming 2 and 1 man tackles are the most common) as many missed tackles per game technically compared to what is recorded now. Which would be a ludicrous and irrelevant measurement of effectiveness.

Croft sprinted out of the line as everyone saw last Sunday and in doing so repeatedly put himself in a position where he was unable to make a tackle. This is not a statistical missed tackle for the same reason there aren‘t 11-12 missed tackles every time the ball is run. The fact that 6 tries were scored down that side, shows this among other defensive lapses - Croft is by no means solely to blame, was not an effective defensive tactic.

Huge’s stat might show Croft is a good tackler, it says nothing at all about whether he is a good defender...
 
Jason Simmons said:
If @Huge’s point about tackling efficiency were the sum of how “defence was measured” we’d have astronomical miss-tackle counts per game, because technically every time a ball carrier was tackled by 1 or 2 players in a defensive line, you’d have the situation where 12 or 11 players have technically “missed” the tackle by virtue of simply not being in the right place to make said tackle.

Which means we’d have 11-12x (assuming 2 and 1 man tackles are the most common) as many missed tackles per game technically compared to what is recorded now. Which would be a ludicrous and irrelevant measurement of effectiveness.

Croft sprinted out of the line as everyone saw last Sunday and in doing so repeatedly put himself in a position where he was unable to make a tackle. This is not a statistical missed tackle for the same reason there aren‘t 11-12 missed tackles every time the ball is run. The fact that 6 tries were scored down that side, shows this among other defensive lapses - Croft is by no means solely to blame, was not an effective defensive tactic.

Huge’s stat might show Croft is a good tackler, it says nothing at all about whether he is a good defender...
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Spot on.
brett finch talks about this in the round review with Denan Kemp and Finch says himself that he was a good defender because he knew where to put himself and work with his outside men but he was a shit tackler
 
Unbreakable said:
For starters, I never said if Croft is a good or bad defender, I simply stated that you using tackle efficiency as the catalyst for your argument is completely foolish, as it was the last time you tried it.

Haven't looked at any numbers, but in my opinion the best halves defensively at the moment are Dylan Brown, Daly Cherry-Evans & Nathan Cleary. They're all forced to do a lot of defensive work each game by the opposition and in my humble opinion are the most technically proficient & least likely to make incorrect defensive decisions.
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Those three are good defenders. It does make you wonder though, would they be as good with the guys we have each side of the halfback position. My only claim was Croft was the best of our recent halves. I also do think Croft is a good defender. Shit attacker though.
 
Jason Simmons said:
Hmm. Strong argument you have there…

Really well supported by ad hominem and neatly countered my points about his rubbish defence as exemplified by his shooting out of the line, thus creating huge defensive holes and his general arm grabbing technique, not uncommon within our entire team I agree, but he is not excused by this point in my opinion.

Perhaps next you’ll strengthen your argument further with some point or other, about me personally you like to describe as ‘bent’? Another really solid debating point, given you know virtually nothing about me and have not a single shred of evidence to support your claim. But that is your style afterall…

Top shelf stuff old boy.
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Well, if you weren't such a prat I'd give you a pass.
 
Sproj said:
I feel for people who come into this thread to read interesting discussion about the team for this coming week and get Groundhog Day discussions with @Huge. These going round in circles discussions are just so boring and annoying.
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Thats what the mute function is good for, thankful for the member who told me to use it.
 
Bully
Kelly
Mead
Where are they and wtf is going on, Kev?
How on earth are Croft and Isaako even in the 17?
Did he watch against the tigers?
 
If we take out the errors and stupid kick offs, I thought Isaako bad a really high effort performance, so I'm happy for him to be given another go, with someone else kicking off.

Pretty annoyed Kelly is not in the 21 though.
 
Huge said:
Croft 2021 89.7% tackle efficiency
Kelly..............89.2% ( only 3 games so...)
Gamble .....86.8%
Hunt..............82.6%
Milford.........79.8%

Croft 2020 90.5%
Croft 2019 89.5 %

He might not be superior but his stats say he is.
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That shows he might be a good tackler but he's not a good defender and it has a negative effect on the players around him.

He is indecisive in his actions and movement forward. Other players come in to help him then have to go back out. The edge he was defending on Sunday was a mess of sliding, going back, going forward and coming in.
 
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