Round 6 - Tigers vs Broncos - Post Match Discussion

[Twiztid]

I know I said I wouldn't reply but here are the rulings to think about.

BEHIND

when applied to a player means, unless otherwise stated, that both feet are behind the position in question.
Similarly “in front” implies “with both feet”. When applied to a position on the field of play, “behind” means nearer to one’s own goal line than the point in question. Similarly “in front of” means nearer to one’s opponents’ goal line.

FORWARD

means in a direction towards the opponents’ dead ball line.

KNOCK-ON

means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball.

IN POSSESSION

means to be holding or carrying the ball.

KICK

means imparting motion to the ball with any part of the leg (except the heel) from knee to toe inclusive.

Mode of Play 3.

Once play has started any player who is on side or not out of play can run with the ball kick it in any direction and throw or knock it in any direction other
than towards his opponents’ dead ball line (See Section 10 for Knock-on and Forward Pass).

SECTION 10
KNOCK-ON AND FORWARD PASS

Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed. Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

Losing possession 8.

– intentionally A tackled player shall not intentionally part with the ball other than by bringing it into play in the prescribed manner.
– accidentally If, after being tackled, he accidentally loses possession, a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.

Losing possession 8 sub notes.

If a tackled player loses possession of the ball at the moment of impact with an opponent or with the ground, play shall proceed unless stopped for some other reason, e.g. the ball has been knocked forward. A player in possession brought to his knees or brought to the ground on his back may still pass the ball – provided he has not made it evident that he has succumbed to the tackle. He should not be wrongly penalised otherwise all players will become reluctant to pass the ball as the tackle nears completion in case they too are penalised. The continuity of play would consequently be adversely and unnecessarily affected.

If you look at all the rules that involve the "knock-on" or "knock forward" ruling like this (I could have probably used a few others but they don't actually use the term). Then you can also say that our idea on the ruling of a knock on is also justified. As is yours if you only look at the definition of Knock on and very general Knock on section by themselves.

The rule book doesn't actually mention the chest in any rulings, they do mention the torso (above waist and below neck) in regards to grounding for a try. It doesn't mention that after coming from your hands and arm that touching any other body part besides kicking (knee below) actually nullifies the knock-on ruling.

 

[Foordy]

i don't know why people continue to argue with AP, (it seems to infect many threads these days), even when he is 100% wrong he will argue to the death that he is right and people seem to want to argue with him. :sigh:

the less people know;
the more stubbornly they know it.

that saying refers very accurately to AP.

 

[Anonymous person]

these are the only 2 you need to look at:

KNOCK-ON
means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball.

Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed. Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.

"knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead ball line with hand or arm"

hand->chest->ground means you knocked the ball AWAY from the opponents' dead ball line with your hand or arm. no knock-on.

"the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground....then play shall be allowed to proceed"

hand->towards opposing goal line and hitting it again with your body (other than arms) before it hits the ground means its no knock-on.

like rnabokov said - "Surely it can't be a knock on if it touches your body after you drop it until it hits something that isn't part of your body. Otherwise, you would be unable to re-gather. Verboten. Not allowed."

there would be no such thing as a re-gather OR a knock-back if what you guys are suggesting was true. if under the 'fabric of the game' imaginary rules, teams werent allowed to gain an advantage from a basic handling mistake, there would be no knock-back and every dropped ball would be a turnover - like touch football.

that is NOT the case though. there are knock-ons and knock-backs for a reason.

Jeb - please follow these instructions:

1. watch the third state of origin from 2006
2. watch brett hodgson clearly knock the ball on
3. watch the referee give it a try
4. watch tonie carroll score a fair try
5. watch the referee disallow it

referees dont always make the correct ruling. hell, just watch basically any match from any round of any year and youll see the referee get at least 1 obvious ruling incorrect.

also, lets remember that if you are diving for a try, you drop the ball from your hands and it hits your chest and you ground it with your chest, its a try - not a knock-on.

 

[Fozz]

It's like two walls are playing tennis.

Back and forth, back and forth.

 

[Anonymous person]

i don't know why people continue to argue with AP, (it seems to infect many threads these days), even when he is 100% wrong he will argue to the death that he is right and people seem to want to argue with him. :sigh:

the less people know;
the more stubbornly they know it.

that saying refers very accurately to AP.

i dont know why people keep trotting out the 'i dont know why people argue with AP...' line. if they were right, they would be able to PROVE it with facts.

I have proven using the official NRL rule book what constitutes a knock-on, and what people in here are saying is a knock-on is clearly NOT a knock-on by the book. they then quote the 'fabric of the game', which is an imaginary made up set of rules. i am 100% right about this, and not a single person in here has been able to find any rule in any part of the rule book or referee guidelines that even remotely suggests otherwise or backs up what they are saying. not a single person, yet they all think theyre right.

im not going to stop arguing just because a bunch of people who are wrong tell me im wrong.

 

[ningnangnong]

Alrighty, that's that then.

Been leaving this open despite the circular argument, as everyone was playing nicely and since this is a post-match thread, it probably just would've whittled away into obscurity if we didn't have the whole 'knock-on' argument.

Seems a few people are starting to get a little frustrated, so I'll close this for now. Might open it later, might not. If there's something you want to add to the thread, by all means PM me and I'll post it up - provided it's related to the discussion regarding what does and doesn't constitute a knock-on.